Why is Kelsier viewed as a supervillain?

[CR0N0S.LXIII]

So I find that a lot of people think Kelsier is gonna be the definitive villain of the Cosmere, that he is a narcissistic megalomaniac and, as such, dangerous.

I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't pay attention when I read Mistborn, but I genuinely don't see any reason whatsoever to think Kelsier is gonna become evil. It's not that I don't share that opinion, is that I don't understand it to begin with.

So, why is Kelsier a potential villain?

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, CR0N0S.LXIII said:

So I find that a lot of people think Kelsier is gonna be the definitive villain of the Cosmere, that he is a narcissistic megalomaniac and, as such, dangerous.

I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't pay attention when I read Mistborn, but I genuinely don't see any reason whatsoever to think Kelsier is gonna become evil. It's not that I don't share that opinion, is that I don't understand it to begin with.

So, why is Kelsier a potential villain?

I think there is a possibility of Kelsier becoming some kind of villain in one story or another, but I don't think he will be the ultimate Cosmere villain. Brandon often talks how he could be a villain of a different story. It's best to show you those WoBs:

Spoiler

Questioner

At one point, you mentioned that Kelsier scared you. Could you talk a little more about why?

Brandon Sanderson

So, Kelsier is one of my favorite characters. I like them all, whoever I'm writing, right? But one of the things that makes Kelsier tick is (and this was my original pitch for him to myself) in another story, he'd be the villain. Kelsier has this hard edge to him. He's one of those people that, when channeled wrong, he becomes the best and most interesting villain. But he happened to be in a situation that pushed him the other direction, and he became a hero. But he still has that edge to him. And there is a darkness to Kelseir that doesn't exist in most of the heroes in my books. Someone like Kaladin has a darkness to him, too, but a darkness that they're fighting against. Whereas Kelsier has embraced this darkness. It is part of what makes him him. So, Kelsier is a little frightening to me as a writer, just because he's a character that I can't guarantee will make good decisions.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Javier

Which of your characters do you feel is the most misunderstood by fans?

Brandon Sanderson

If I'm doing my job, people won't misunderstand characters.

The one I usually answer on this question is Kelsier, who... Kelsier is definitely a heroic figure. He did a lot of right things. But Kelsier is much closer to being a villain than people see, because he was in the best place for him possible, which is being capable of burning something down. He is just really good at tearing stuff down, and he is a great agent of chaos in that regard, and great at coming up with masterful ways to mess up what other people are doing to get what he wants. And what he wanted in that story happened to align very well with the needs and interests of the general population, and he genuinely wants to do good and right by them. It's not like he's some antihero who is accidentally doing the right things. But he is arrogant; he is very, very driven; and he is very, very dangerous; which are a combination that could have led to disaster in other circumstances.

YouTube Livestream 24 (Dec. 31, 2020)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

We've had great topics and discussions about this. If all of your characters were in a death match, who would win?

Brandon Sanderson

Honest truth is Kelsier. This is because of most of the characters, Kelsier is the one that is ruthless enough to get what he wants. Others would not be as ruthless. Kelsier as a character is very interesting to me. My kind of pitch on him to myself was he would be the villain in most stories. Kelsier in a lot of stories being told, in a lot of books that I would write, he's the villain but in this world, at this time, it is what the world needs and he is the hero. That's why I say Kelsier.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

Look at this from another angle. Kelsier is/was arrogant, egocentric, ruthless, smart and hateful. He was an ideal man to start the revolution against an oppressive government and  a tyrannical Lord Ruler. But those times are now gone, there is no tyranny, there is no oppression, Scadrial is free. But that's what we think. Kelsier is arrogant enough to think for some twisted reason that only he holds the key to total freedom, security or whatever he thinks of, and he needs to grant the people of Scadrial those things, against the oppression of [blank], for example Sazed. It's entirely possible that at some point in Era 3 Kelsier will think that Sazed poses a danger to Scadrial and start actively fighting against him. Whatever the circumstances of this might be, depending on who will be the main PoV of this story, Kelsier might become the villain of future books. Kelsier already fears that he will have to fight against Harmony, the seed was already planted TLM epilogue 4:

Quote

“I,” Kelsier said, “am going to protect our people. Whatever it costs. Please tell me I won’t ever have to protect them from you.”
“That depends,” Sazed said, “entirely upon you, old friend.”

 

[Duxredux]

14 hours ago, CR0N0S.LXIII said:

So I find that a lot of people think Kelsier is gonna be the definitive villain of the Cosmere, that he is a narcissistic megalomaniac and, as such, dangerous.

I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't pay attention when I read Mistborn, but I genuinely don't see any reason whatsoever to think Kelsier is gonna become evil. It's not that I don't share that opinion, is that I don't understand it to begin with.

So, why is Kelsier a potential villain?

I remember years ago as a child I got a documentary called March of the Penguins for Christmas and I watched it with my family.  It was a nice movie for a kid with fun music (at least, that's what I remember, this is probably 15+ years ago). It was fun up until they got to the leg of their migratory journey when they were hunted by killer whales. Cue the dramatic and tense music as penguins are threatened by these predators. My older brother commented that had this been a documentary on killer whales, this would have been the point in the narrative with the happy cheerful music because after so long with meager offerings, the penguins have finally returned! The long months of fasting are over! Hooray! Weird take to hear as kid, but I remember it.

The villain of the story depends on the degree that you would agree with the character's decisions and actions in addition to the role they play as the antagonist as the opposing force against the protagonist's efforts. You can have very logical and sympathetic antagonists who are still framed as opposing the "good guy". From a Luthadel nobility perspective, Kelsier was a villain working to start a house war and kill many of them. Had it served him and if Vin hadn't asked him, he probably would have killed Elend if the opportunity presented itself.

I think a major reason why people might expect Kelsier to be a villain is how the Ghostbloods are handling Roshar. The head of that chapter of the Ghostbloods, Mraise, is highly manipulative, ruthless, and intimidating. He doesn't do much to support Shallan's mental health or encourage her to do healthy things. Within the context of the Stormlight Archive, the Ghostbloods thus far haven't been portrayed in a particularly heroic light. It's not too far of a leap to assume that other non-Scadrian worlds and viewpoints may view Kelsier's way of doing things to be antagonistic to their own goals.

I think it helps to reflect on Kelsier's introduction to the larger Cosmere in Secret History. After dying he finds out that other people (Nazh and Khriss, and the entire economy of off world traders) have been aware of the circumstance of Scadrial, presumably The Lord Ruler, and Ruin trying to destroy the planet and all the Scadrians, and they haven't done anything to help. Not only that, but now that Ruin is free, they won't help and will run away instead. He next finds out about the Ire, people sitting on the sidelines hoping to poach Preservation's power for their own gain. No one was willing to help Scadrial in any significant way. He had to steal the stuff from the Ire, Ascend, and do a whole lot of scrambling and by a lot of luck and foresight from Leras, they barely managed to avoid annihilation. SA 5 spoiler:

Spoiler

Unfortunately, one of the major world powers he tries to work with later on happens to be Gavilar Kholin, who basically is trying to set himself up as the Lord Ruler and is willing to start a war in a relatively peaceful era to accomplish it.

Basically, I don't think Kelsier has had a very good introduction to government or foreign planets and is determined that his people at least will survive at any cost, at the detriment to other planets if necessary, as from his perspective they have not tried to be a friend to Scadrial or to Scadrians. Part of the issue is that people generally don't respond well when they find that foreign agents are monitoring their activities without ever letting their presence known, so Kelsier's modus operandi is unlikely to endear him to many planets either. From Kelsier's perspective, one of their most powerful assets, Scadrial's Shard, is largely inactive and may be getting worse and they barely avoided a nuke wiping out Elendel while a foreign power working in the shadows tried to invade. It doesn't help that Sazed is hiding how much he actually did help Wax and Wayne, and once again, Kelsier feels like he and his team had to scramble to save the world and because Dawnshot is really effective, they barely survived. Again. It's not that far of a stretch that he will try to gain more and more power and influence because his planet keeps almost getting wiped out while foreign powers are either waiting to scavenge from or actively nuke his people.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Duxredux
spoiler section

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Because, Kaladin fans are jealous of Kelsier taking the kool guy status of having his name start with a "K" before Kaladin did.

Kaladin = sad

Kelsier = chad

[Sophrosyne]

7 hours ago, CR0N0S.LXIII said:

So I find that a lot of people think Kelsier is gonna be the definitive villain of the Cosmere, that he is a narcissistic megalomaniac and, as such, dangerous.

I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't pay attention when I read Mistborn, but I genuinely don't see any reason whatsoever to think Kelsier is gonna become evil. It's not that I don't share that opinion, is that I don't understand it to begin with.

So, why is Kelsier a potential villain?

Honestly it's like this. Kelseir's arc is done, we saw it in era 1 and it was great but then secret history happened and suddenly Kel was 'alive' a sliver and entirely obsessed with power, People call it security, call it survival, call it whatever you like but if the shoe fits wear it. He wants power clearly manipulated the Lord Mistborn into making the Bands of Mourning, He bullied a formed a less than moral secret organization to rob the cosmere, possessed a corpse to try and become metalbron again and as if all of that wasn't enough, he's actively contradicting a shard on what's best for their world. so, I ask you what's next for our crew leader turned profit? They're only two reason's an author keeps a hero alive for hundreds of years.
givin all that I ask you will Kelsier survivor of Hathsin be like unbroken Talenel? Or will he be like Nale?

Despite all of that I like Kel but I just the writing on the walls and someone has to be the big bad, and Kel, Hoid and Odium are the only options. 
With Odium is being held at by just the splinters of one shard and I think Hoid would hurt alot more, so if I had to pick... /shrug