Spren Thoughts (mostly surrounding Nahel and Void-type bonds)

[Rybal]

So I recently started my first reread since March and some things in chapter 4, Taker of Secrets, stood out to me. (For a quick reference, it was the first Vision chapter.)

 

I may as well go ahead and mention the terminology that will be used in this post. If there are more accurate terms, please feel free to correct me. Here goes:

 

Nahel Spren: These are spren that are capable of forming a Nahel bond.

Void Spren: Obvious enough. I'm using the two-word form because I am using it as a category. (Though Jasnah refers to Voidspren as a category).

Greater Spren: This one is a bit trickier. I would categorize the major spren, such as Stormfather, Nightwatcher as a part of it, but I would also consider Unmade to be a part of this grouping, for reasons that should be clearer by the end of this post.

 

Here is the passage that got me thinking:

 

"Fine," Dalinar said. "Just worried. I mean, I don't even really know what we're looking for."

"A spren that doesn't act like it should," the man said. "Keep your eyes open. Once Sja-anat touches a spren, it acts strange. Call attention to anything you see."

. . . 

He found himself watching little fish dart this way and that, shadows in the water, and next to them a face.

A face.

Dalinar shouted, jumping back, pointing his spear downward. "That was a face! In the water!"

"Riverspren?" the knight asked, stepping up beside him.

"It looked like a shadow," Dalinar said. "Red eyes."

"It's here, then," the knight said. "Sja-anat's spy. Caeb, run to the checkpoint. The rest of you, keep watching. It won't be able to go far without a carrier." 

 

The passage continues, but that's the most relevant section. Rereading that, I noticed some interesting things.

 

First, Sja-anat is able to change a spren into something different - in this case, a type of Void Spren. It made me wonder if the Nahel Spren have more in common with Void Spren than we realized. Based on comments that Sanderson has made and the first two books, it seems to me that spren may be able to be turned into either Nahel or Void spren. Assuming that base spren are neutral, what if the Greater Spren, whether they are the ones on Honor and Cultivation's side or the Unmade, are capable of changing a lesser spren into the upgraded versions? What if Honorspren like Syl were, in fact, originally normal windspren that were touched by an emissary of Honor or Cultivation, and became something more?

 

Think of a molecule. At rest, they are normally neutral, but you can add or remove electrons to change the charge. It could even be that the first instances of bond-capable spren happened somewhat spontaneously without an additional catalyst. Given the fact that it seemed unexpected and that they did it on their own, I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Then, the Greater Spren realized that they could act as a catalyst, leading us to the formation of the KR.

 

Second, I found it interesting that the KR in this vision mentions that "it won't be able to go far without a carrier." Again, this seems to be a lot like the Nahel relationship that we have thus far seen between Kaladin and Syl. We know that if the Nahel bond forming between those two breaks or weakens, then she regresses into a more basic state that is indistinguishable from a normal windspren. Again, this seems to be another strong similarity between Nahel and Void Spren.

 

Also, it appears to me that the Void Spren that we have seen so far have a strong affinity for water, but that could be a coincidence, since we've barely seen them so far.

 

This theory certainly begs a couple of other questions. First, I'm assuming that the Stormfather was not the one that caused the change in Syl. It's fairly obvious that he'd prefer to have her alive and "dumb" than risk losing her entirely. Would that mean that the Nightwatcher, and by extension Cultivation, is the one that touched/changed Syl? We know from the Lift interlude that those two are not as opposed to the resurgence of the Knights Radiant as Stormfather is. One of the prevailing theories is that Cusicesh is a/the third of the Greater Spren on the side of Honor/Cultivation. Personally, I'm not really certain on that point - at least not yet.

 

So, I think that's it but, as usual, I'm sure I forgot something. I'm looking forward to the comments and, if this has been suggested before, please feel free to move it to the appropriate thread.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Interesting thoughts... thank you for posting them. Have an upvote!

 

I like this idea of base spren that are touched by the emissary becoming the "upgrade" version of either Nahel or Void. 

 

I don't know if I fully agree, since that would mean that there is no Ideal of honor in the cognitive realm to generate a spren on its own, it needed help, which I don't think I agree with, but it does explain the similarities between Syl and regular windspren, and the windspren's affinity for Syl and Kaladin as he rides the winds. 

[hoser]

I like the idea, but am not convinced.  My issues concern investiture and quantities thereof. 

 

We have WoB that Syl (and I assume all Nahel bond spren) are "splinters", which represents a significant amount of investiture.  I have trouble imagining Odium giving even one of his Unmade the power to dispense significant amounts of his investiture in order to create splinters from simple spren.  So I conceive of these changed spren as having less investiture than Syl. 

 

Corrupting, changing or possessing seems to fit perfectly with Odium's intent.  Influencing people to feel the thrill, creating simple deadly Midnight Essence that are nowhere near a Radiant, corrupting a spren don't seem as significant as turning minor investiture into splinters. 

 

I imagine the Unmade at a comparable investiture/power level to the Heralds.  While the Heralds seem powerful, I don't see them able to do something as powerful as converting a windspren to an honorspren. 

 

So what makes the Nahel-bond spren?  I see them as arising from the combination of H&C's investiture, Roshar's nature, the patterns established by the Heralds (hence no spren that grant Pressure and Soulcasting) and the thoughts of the beings on Roshar.  Beings think about the patterns in nature and a significant amount of investiture coalesces into a Cryptic. 

 

I can imagine Tanavast or Cultivation choosing to create an honorspren or a Cryptic, but not the Stormfather.  I don't have a clear enough picture of the Nightwatcher and her relation to Cultivation to say anything coherent about her capabilities. 

[Moogle]

I imagine the Unmade at a comparable investiture/power level to the Heralds.  While the Heralds seem powerful, I don't see them able to do something as powerful as converting a windspren to an honorspren. 

 

WoB is that:

10. Are the Unmade and the Stormfather the same 'class' of being?

 

Technically no, but they are on a similar level. It is a good analogy.

(source)

 

I'd put the Stormfather as having some serious mojo myself. Which makes sense, the Unmade can put out the Thrill across 1/4 of a continent. TLR, pretty powerful (though Scadrial is pretty low-Investiture) by all accounts, could barely manage to put out a Soothing across a significant part of one city.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Moogle