Duble spike

[Alumínio he/him]

Would there be any way to create a double peak? for example, one part is bronze and the other is brass, so with the right intention I could steal more than one thing per peak? sticking a twinborn in the heart (which in my opinion is the bindpoint of all metallic art) I could take A-Zinc and F-Copper

For example, one part is bronze and the other is brass, so with the right intention I could steal more than one thing per spike? by sticking a twinborn in the heart (which in my opinion is the bindpoint of all metallic art) I could get A-Zinc and F-Copper?

[alder24]

33 minutes ago, Alumínio said:

Would there be any way to create a double peak? for example, one part is bronze and the other is brass, so with the right intention I could steal more than one thing per peak? sticking a twinborn in the heart (which in my opinion is the bindpoint of all metallic art) I could take A-Zinc and F-Copper

For example, one part is bronze and the other is brass, so with the right intention I could steal more than one thing per spike? by sticking a twinborn in the heart (which in my opinion is the bindpoint of all metallic art) I could get A-Zinc and F-Copper?

It likely can't work. There are multiple binding points in the heart, and they matter when you're stealing the powers.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

So, since I was doing other things.  Hemalurgy-when you spike, you place the spike in a place that determines which charge the spike gets.  

Kythis

Through the heart seems to pick up universally.

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on where in the heart. It's like acupuncture. This was designed from acupuncture and you get very specific on which nerve you're hitting and things like that

Kythis

So the spike will never pick up more than one power.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, the way they know how to do it.

Footnote: This clarifies two previous questions.
Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Alumínio said:

Would there be any way to create a double peak? for example, one part is bronze and the other is brass, so with the right intention I could steal more than one thing per peak? sticking a twinborn in the heart (which in my opinion is the bindpoint of all metallic art) I could take A-Zinc and F-Copper

For example, one part is bronze and the other is brass, so with the right intention I could steal more than one thing per spike? by sticking a twinborn in the heart (which in my opinion is the bindpoint of all metallic art) I could get A-Zinc and F-Copper?

I had the same idea a while back, buried somewhere in the forums. Ah, the nostalgia this topic brings up is refreshing.

I think that it could be possible, though @alder24 makes a good point; there are multiple Bindpoints even in the heart, so you'd probably have to spike the Twinborn twice to steal all their powers.

Plus, there are different Bindpoints involved with placing the spikes, so even if you put more powers into the same spike by spiking a Twinborn, you'd still have to make sure the Bindpoint you grafted the spike to in the recipient was able to function for both (which I suspect is possible, though it hasn't been canonically confirmed yet).

Another limitation to having multiple metals for a single spike is that you'd have to make sure they belonged in the same general area on the body; steel and pewter could go together, as their Bindpoints have the same general location on the body. Brass and bronze (as you already mentioned) would work together as well, and cadmium, Bendalloy, gold, and electrum would probably all work together as a single spike.

Good idea by the way @Alumínio, I like it 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Alumínio he/him]

13 hours ago, alder24 said:

It likely can't work. There are multiple binding points in the heart, and they matter when you're stealing the powers.

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

So, since I was doing other things.  Hemalurgy-when you spike, you place the spike in a place that determines which charge the spike gets.  

Kythis

Through the heart seems to pick up universally.

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on where in the heart. It's like acupuncture. This was designed from acupuncture and you get very specific on which nerve you're hitting and things like that

Kythis

So the spike will never pick up more than one power.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, the way they know how to do it.

Footnote: This clarifies two previous questions.
Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

If using a single peak to get two powers wouldn't work, how about I take two already made peaks and mix them. Like a medallion for example, this would only damage a part of the soul

11 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I had the same idea a while back, buried somewhere in the forums. Ah, the nostalgia this topic brings up is refreshing.

Glad someone is asking the important questions

Did you come to any good conclusions?

11 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Another limitation to having multiple metals for a single spike is that you'd have to make sure they belonged in the same general area on the body; steel and pewter could go together, as their Bindpoints have the same general location on the body. Brass and bronze (as you already mentioned) would work together as well, and cadmium, Bendalloy, gold, and electrum would probably all work together as a single spike.

Even with this limitation of the same area, this is a chance to have more powers, damaging the soul less and without exposing yourself to harmony or any allomantic or ferruquemic on duty.

 

11 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

 

Good idea by the way @Alumínio, I like it 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Alumínio said:

If using a single peak to get two powers wouldn't work, how about I take two already made peaks and mix them. Like a medallion for example, this would only damage a part of the soul

A single spike, made out of one metal, will work - WoBs, including the one I've quoted, suggest that there is a way to steal more than one power with a spike, but people don't know about it yet. I personally think that a single spike can steal all powers from the same quadrant - like a steel spike will steal all Allomantic physical powers at once. That makes a lot of sense to me. 

But mixing spikes won't work, because of binding points. There are multiple binding points in the heart alone, and it matters through which you want to put your spike. Even mixing steel and pewter, to get both Allomancy and Feruchemy won't work, as they probably require different points. Also, as mentioned by Trusk'our, you have different points for receiving powers, therefore mixing already charged spikes won't work as well, unless you make sure those spikes are from the same quadrant. However can two spikes be placed in a single binding point? I think not, so even this idea won't work.

I'm also doubtful it wouldn't damage your soul as much as if you place those spikes in separate binding points - they are still acting like two, separate spikes. Mixing metals together like you want won't change that. You need both Hemalurgic charges to be in a single spike, made out of the single metal, and that's more problematic. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Alumínio said:

If using a single peak to get two powers wouldn't work, how about I take two already made peaks and mix them. Like a medallion for example, this would only damage a part of the soul

There is actually some debate as to whether you could use medallions as Hemalurgic fuel; SA spoilers;

Spoiler

Medallions are comparable the Honorblades, which have some limitations themselves. For example, you can't heal the Spiritual Aspect with Honorblades, so something like a gold medallion wouldn't be able to heal Hemalurgic wounds, as it isn't ingrained into the Spiritweb of the wielder itself. Plus, medallions are likely far less efficient that the normal Metalborn powers.

Spoiler

Orem signing - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Questioner

Do Honorblades bestow their abilities similar to an Identity-free nicrosilmind with other Metalborn abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, these are working on similar principles. Same principle, divergent applications by the magic system, but yeah, I would say, they come back to the same principles.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4788

Brandon Sanderson

A full-blown Radiant can heal almost anything (cut from a Shardblade included) because of the way the magic works--their soul is literally bonded to Investiture, and it suffuses them in such a way that even the soul is very resilient to damage.

Honorblades are what you'd consider a "prototype" for what eventually happened with Shardblades. An Honorblade can be used by anyone, without need for oaths, which makes them very dangerous--but since the bond isn't as deep, they are far less efficient. They use more Stormlight, for example, and can't heal to the extent that a Radiant can.

So the difference is not in the device that did the damage, but in the method using to heal. Over the course of the first two book, the reader should be able to subtly pick out differences from what Szeth says is possible (in more than just healing) and what Kaladin experiences.

 

3 hours ago, Alumínio said:

Glad someone is asking the important questions

Thanks! At this point, there are probably more questions/posts I've made regarding Hemalurgy than ones that have yet to someday be posted 

3 hours ago, Alumínio said:

Did you come to any good conclusions?

If memory serves right, the general consensus was basically the same as it was here- met with skepticism, and probably rightfully so.

My conclusion was that it would be harder to pull off than filling a spike made of a single metal with four separate powers, as you not only have to deal with Identity contamination, you also have to deal with the complexity of finding a functional Bindpoint that worked for multiple Hemalurgic metals. I think that it could be done, but it's probably going to be a medium-hard in terms of what you could pull off with Hemalurgy.

3 hours ago, Alumínio said:

Even with this limitation of the same area, this is a chance to have more powers, damaging the soul less and without exposing yourself to harmony or any allomantic or ferruquemic on duty.

Yes indeed; more powers for less damage is always the best practice for Hemalurgy.

Unless perhaps the other option is to fill a spike with a single power many times over to make a supercharged version of it. That could also be a very powerful tactic.