Kaladin Will Take Honor

[Paragrin she/her]

"Honor is dead. But I'll see what I can do."

My foreshadowing bells are going off...

(Just to be clear, this is supported by ABSOLUTELY NOTHING besides that line. It's verbatim from WoR, right at the end of chapter 56.)

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

...if enough of the power can be reassembled from the splintering that any one person could take it up again. 

 

I think that is kind of the point of Odium both killing the shardholders and shattering the power, to make it really hard to pick up again. 

[Paragrin she/her]

This is kind of a crack theory, it doesn't have to be plausible...

That said, unSplintering a Shard is /possible/, by WoB. So, maybe that's where things will end up.

[kaladamSB he/him]

I really like this idea. I now picture Kaladin having access to all surges and being the most BAMF in the cosmere.

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

Well, here's the thing. Honor is Splintered. Therefore, the only way I can conceive of Kaladin being able to take up Honor would be if he were to somehow bond with all of Honor's Splinters, or at least a significant number of them, enough that they could gain Shardly power and Intent. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Of course, the Stormfather did call Kaladin "Child of Tanavast", by which I guess he could have mean successor of Tanavast, but I doubt that as well. Regardless, I would be disappointed if Kaladin or anyone else for that matter were to take a Shard at some point in the Archive, as it would just feel like a repetition of Mistborn

[Paragrin she/her]

But... If the aspect of the magic system that made the ending of Mistborn possible is never used again, despite being an integral aspect to the cosmology, then it would feel like a deus ex machina.

[Argent he/him]

I feel that Brandon would be hesitant to play the same card again, since he already pulled the main-character-takes-a-Shard rabbit out of the hat once.

[Left he/him]

...if enough of the power can be reassembled from the splintering that any one person could take it up again. 

 

I think that is kind of the point of Odium both killing the shardholders and shattering the power, to make it really hard to pick up again. 

 

 

Well, here's the thing. Honor is Splintered. Therefore, the only way I can conceive of Kaladin being able to take up Honor would be if he were to somehow bond with all of Honor's Splinters, or at least a significant number of them, enough that they could gain Shardly power and Intent. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Of course, the Stormfather did call Kaladin "Child of Tanavast", by which I guess he could have mean successor of Tanavast, but I doubt that as well. Regardless, I would be disappointed if Kaladin or anyone else for that matter were to take a Shard at some point in the Archive, as it would just feel like a repetition of Mistborn

 

 

I feel that Brandon would be hesitant to play the same card again, since he already pulled the main-character-takes-a-Shard rabbit out of the hat once.

 

What if the solution is to have multiple people bond with the splinters? What if you could get a team of people who are bound to super splinters like stormfather? What if you could turn Syl into something like that by giving her more investure, say by destroying the windrunner honorblade and transferring the investure to her?

 

All crackpot and baseless, but it feels really awesome to me.

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

What if the solution is to have multiple people bond with the splinters? What if you could get a team of people who are bound to super splinters like stormfather? What if you could turn Syl into something like that by giving her more investure, say by destroying the windrunner honorblade and transferring the investure to her?

All crackpot and baseless, but it feels really awesome to me.

I was actually thinking the same exact thing, just didn't have time to post it.

It would be cool if Kaladin, Shallan, Renarin, etc., one modern Radiant of every order, were to take up major Splinters and become the new Heralds, thus coming up with a way to use Honor's power again. This would be a cool way to defeat Odium/whatever Big Bad we will have by book 10 and end the series.

[weebojello]

It seems that the "big bad" in the Stormlight Archive has the upper hand by far. Having someone take up Honor seems quite appropriate in that it would "even" out the odds as I see it.

 

That person being Kaladin? That I doubt. It seems to me that Dalinar is more the choice - being a bondsmith, and bonding with the largest splinter / spren left - the Stormfather. Kaladin leading a reformed Herald group...would make sense in that I've had a terrible suspicion that Kaladin will achieve his wish of spending time in Damnation (iirc, talking to Shallan while in the chasm's) - and it seems Heralds are the ones that do that.

 

What I can't really fathom, and this is simply more a technical thing, is how this can be spread across 10 books. It seems to me knowing that we're going to have two sets of five books, that the end of the first arc is some ...temporary stopping of Odium and picking up later when he comes back. For instance, knowing the WOB that desolations end when all the heralds return to damnation, means that book 5 ends with the death of the other nine heralds (and also assumes that the being known as Taln to us is in fact somone else (Jezrien??)). Then the final five would be the theoretical ending of Odium in the Rosharan system.

 

I dunno, though. Just 8 more books to know.  

[Fatebreaker he/him]

It seems that the "big bad" in the Stormlight Archive has the upper hand by far. Having someone take up Honor seems quite appropriate in that it would "even" out the odds as I see it.

 

 

 

 

Unless they use extreme hemalurgy.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Fatebreaker

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Ooo, I'm reading these last 2 posts and latching on to something that Shallan said to Kaladin while walking the Chasms...

 

I love the idea of Dalinar taking up Honor to combat Odium, I think he is the most likely candidate, if Brandon decides to use that plot device again. 

 

Either way, I think the newly forming KR becoming the pool from which new Heralds are selected is a cool idea as well. As far as we know Kaladin still has the Honorblade right? Maybe Kaladin and Shallan will finally get their wish, and someone will hurt them so that others are not hurt (at least between desolations)...

 

She turned and looked to him. “The crushing guilt,” she said , “of being powerless. Of wishing they’d hurt you instead of those around you. Of screaming and scrambling and hating as those you love are ruined, popped like a boil. And you have to watch their joy seeping away while you can’t do anything. They break the ones you love, and not you. And you plead. Can’t you just beat me instead?”

 

“Yes,” he whispered.

 

Shallan nodded, holding his eyes. “Yes. It would be nice if nobody in the world knew of those things, Kaladin Stormblessed. I agree. With everything I have.”

 

He saw it in her eyes. The anguish, the frustration. The terrible nothing that clawed inside and sought to smother her. She knew. It was there, inside. She had been broken.

 

Then she smiled. Oh, storms. She smiled anyway.

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (Kindle Locations 17016-17023). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. (Emphasis added).

 

 

[Pathfinder]

Much like the OP, what I am about to say has absolutely no source material to back it up, but what if they find a way to take all the honorblades, and "break" them down, or combine them. All the honorblades are made of honor and they are pretty powerful by themselves. Unite them all which is a pretty huge chunk of honor, have a person hold it, and then use it to draw all the other pieces till the shard is whole again. 

[Shadowspren he/him]

If Odium is the most powerful then finding a way to destroy him would be pretty difficult, so what if multiple shards worked together to create a prison for him like the one Preservation made for Ruin. This theory however is unlikely because Brandon would again be using the same 'shard makes a prison' card -but as previously stated- so is kaladin or any of the other main characters taking up Honor. 

So far, Roshar is the only cosmere place that Hoid has really been a big part of (as shown in WoR when everyone knows who he is), so maybe Hoid has some secret that Brandon will slowly reveal over the 10 book thing about how they can defeat Odium. 

Any more thoughts?

[Paragrin she/her]

Well, wasn't it going for a challenge of champions?

[Shadowspren he/him]

Yeah, but if Kaladin took Honor how would that help him beat Odium? Odium already splintered Honor once.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Hm... Considering how we don't know much about Cultivation, but guessing from her name, I'm guessing Clutivation possibly could help in the Mending of a Shard.

[Mr Maker]

Perhaps Nightblood will end up consuming so much investiture, that he will inadvertently reassemble the energy into a shard, and change his own intent to become a mixed up (but balanced) entity that destroys evil - albeit honourably. 

 

Nightblood for president!

Edited August 22, 2014 by Mr Maker

[weebojello]

Nightblood seems to be more in the hands of Odium at this point than that of Honor - if one assumes, as I do, that the organization termed as Skybreakers are twisted in purpose and leadership. I have to assume Nightbloods eventual reunion with Zahel will be ... pretty, pretty cool.

 

Zahel unveiling whatever his Returned level is on Roshar will be pretty cool...but I digress.

 

WOB have been cagey in that Shards can be reformed but it's hard. I too think that Cultivation would have the ability to help in those regards. Oddly, it's interesting to see Narvani / Dalinar pair similar to Cultivation / Honor in that Narvani is very creative, always learning, changing, trying new things. It may be that what will happen is this:

 

Cultivation (Reya?) willingly passes on her power to Narvani, who in turn mends the shards and ascends Dalinar combining a bit of the magic from Adonalsium that was present on Roshar prior to the two, and together they rebut Odium to some extent. Similar to how Leras needed Vin to assume the power because Vin, being new to the power could do things willingly that Leras could not having been overruled with intent.

 

Structurally, just looking at the story, considering we have 8 more books and a span of years, I don't know how our good guys can make it. I just don't, unless something like that happens. Appointing a champion and the champion defeating Odium's champion? That works for one desolation, no? Odium still lives. I ... just cannot imagine reading the 10 books of the Stormlight Archive to see Odium whole at the end with a splintered Honor and Cultivation and a devastated Roshar.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

I kind of actually assume that the champion thing will happen in this 5 book arch and the "remove Odium" in the overall 10 book. 

 

Problem is... there is still the power of the shard, which someone could pick up, or probably even worse if left alone long enough will gain sentience on its own. You'd have to combine Odium with another shard to mute it's "hate" intent somewhat. Like how Ruin was muted by coming with Preservation. Odium would need to combine with a near opposite to really neuter. 

 

Also Reya is not cultivation, sorry. I got confirmation from Brandon and posted here

[Fatebreaker he/him]

 

 

Nightblood for president!

 

I'd vote for him in a second. 

[Left he/him]

Who'd be vp? Syl I'm hoping, but I guess Pattern does fit the role better.

[Khyrindor he/him]

I was hoping that Dalinar takes Honour and Odium to make Justice or Vengence.

[kaellok he/him]

 

What I can't really fathom, and this is simply more a technical thing, is how this can be spread across 10 books. It seems to me knowing that we're going to have two sets of five books, that the end of the first arc is some ...temporary stopping of Odium and picking up later when he comes back. For instance, knowing the WOB that desolations end when all the heralds return to damnation, means that book 5 ends with the death of the other nine heralds (and also assumes that the being known as Taln to us is in fact somone else (Jezrien??)). Then the final five would be the theoretical ending of Odium in the Rosharan system.

 

I dunno, though. Just 8 more books to know.

How can it last across 8 more books?  Make the threat bigger.  That's always an answer.  I mean, look at what Sanderson has done with other works.  There was one thread a month or two back (can't remember the title, or who authored it because I am the worst) that predicted that we haven't even seen the Big Bad of the Stormlight Archive on screen yet based on when we generally see the true Big Bad make an on-screen appearance.  After all, Odium is, quite possibly, a catspaw for something else much bigger, much more dangerous.  Or the think of certain artifacts now unleashed on Roshar that have the potential for have disastrous consequences.  Nightblood consumes Investiture.  Can you imagine what would happen if Szeth wielded it against a Champion of Odium?  How strong could that make Nightblood?  (Or, if Nightblood doesn't gain strength by such consumption, what would the effects of such a battle be/do to Roshar?  Certainly nothing pretty.)

 

It's also important to remember that there are two separate arcs to the Stormlight Archive.  The threat of Odium is likely to, at the very least, be definitively handled by the end of Book 5.

 

Back to OP: I think it more likely for Kaladin to Hold the Shard of Odium than Honor when all is said and done.  No textual reason, just the feeling that I am left with after WoR (the kind of feeling that is often wrong, but comes up with weird and cool ideas to entertain me at the same time.)

[king of nowhere]

I would see better jasnah to hold the shards.

for once, it would be hilarious. I can totally see her teachings leading to the formation of the church association to worship respect in a "first among equal" fashion the godlike very powerful, but definitely not holy being.

then, she is the better person suited to it. she is hard but compassionate, stern but fair. she is willing to dabble in assassination and lay waste on robbers and murderers, but when shallan said "i made a mistake. i will make more without you. i need your help. please" she took her in, she helped her brothers despite having no interest whatsoever in them, and in the spoilery unpublished material that sanderson released a few weeks ago she goes out of her way, taking personal danger, to help people she barely knew and that didn't matter at all in the big picture. she is somewhat dismissive - almost inevitable when one is so smart that everyone else seem an idiot by comparison - but she still respects everyone. In short, she is the best kind of person to entrust with shardic power. I would trust her much more than kaladin with it, barring huge character development. Dalinar, on the other hand, would be almost as good.

third point, she is by far the most knowleadgable in realmatics among rosharans, barring worldhoppers. so she is best suited to put herself in the right place at the right time to take a shard.

 

As for the argument "brandon cannot use it again after mistborn" or "brandon must use it again or mistborn will be a deus ex machina", i think both have merit. so I would guess the end would involve people taking shards, but in quite a different way than in mistborn. or maybe odium will be defeated and then someone will take the shards as an epilogue.