[Spoilers for RoW and HoA] The opposite of Honor and Odium vs. The opposite of Ruin and Preservation

[Shadow of Electrum]

So this has been bothering me since I reread RoW. In Mistborn ruin and Preservation are opposites, both logically and physically as they destroy each other. It makes sense that there is a shard for both preservation and ruin as they are fundamentally different and represent aspects of the cosmere. Because they are logical opposites, there investitures are also opposites. However, in RoW Navani insinuates that opposite investitures must be created. What does this mean then? Do all shards have an opposite shard or do some shards just not have an opposite?

I've taken a quick look at the known shards and I can't find reasonable opposites for some of them, whether or not this is due to personal error, it doesn't look like all shards have opposite shards, but some do? If anyone knows more about this please inform me.

[Alumínio]

I think the anti-light of the (insert fragment) is just the investiture of the opposite fragment Navani may have found the properties of the investiture of the opposite of honor in the theoretical table of grouped fragments. In fact, there have been some interesting theories about this involving dawnshards, but then you'll have to look for them yourself.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, AvonZapper said:

So this has been bothering me since I reread RoW. In Mistborn ruin and Preservation are opposites, both logically and physically as they destroy each other. It makes sense that there is a shard for both preservation and ruin as they are fundamentally different and represent aspects of the cosmere. Because they are logical opposites, there investitures are also opposites. However, in RoW Navani insinuates that opposite investitures must be created. What does this mean then? Do all shards have an opposite shard or do some shards just not have an opposite?

Two Shards having opposite intents and nature, doesn't make them opposite in the way as anti-investiture does - anti-investiture is the inversion of any given Shard's investiture. But there are no anti-Shards. Anti-investiture is something different than Shard's nature being in polar opposition to another Shard. Anti-investiture is a property of investiture (not Shards), while Ruin being a polar opposite of Preservation is the result of their different natures. 

Shards represent different aspects of forces of nature. Preservation's nature is stasis, while Ruin's nature is entropy - destructive change. That's why they are considered opposite because their natures are on two different sides of the same spectrum. Anti-investiture is inversion of their investiture. Inversion of the whole spectrum. There is no true anti-Preservation, but you can take Preservation's investiture and invert it, which would make anti-investiture of Preservation, and just like matter and antimatter reacts explosively in contact with each other, investiture and anti-investiture of Preservation would annihilate together. Yes, Ruin and Preservation are logical opposite, but not mathematical - the destructive interference of waves is what defines anti-investiture the opposite of investiture.

Ruin isn't anti-Shard of Preservation, they do not destroy each other on contact, but he represents a different aspect of Cosmere. Instead they repel each other - you saw Mists being repelled by spikes, spikes being repelled by the Well of Ascension etc. Their whole power was thrown at each other, trying to stop each other from doing anything, but that didn't destroy them. What Vin did at the end of HoA was different, it's called Splintering, she killed Ruin's Vessel, but because their powers repelled each other so much, when she threw it at Ruin, it pushed back at her, killing both of them. Keep in mind Ruin and Preservation were able to work together and create Scadrial, where everything is made 50:50 from Ruin and Preservation's investiture which don't destroy them. Sazed were able to combine both Shards together without any destruction. HoA ch 82:

Quote

The powers were opposites. As he drew them in, they threatened to annihilate each other. And yet, because he was of one mind on how to use them, he could keep them separate. They could touch without destroying each other, if he willed it. For these two powers had been used to create all things. If they fought, they destroyed. If they were used together, they created.

 

Spoiler

Zas

So what's up with the regeneration issue? With Shards? Because they only have so much power they can access at a certain time, but yet they still have more energy. So how does that work? Is it just they have so much power they can use at any given time?

Brandon Sanderson

What are you talking about? Like which shards?

Zas

Ruin and Preservation. Since we know the most about them.

Brandon Sanderson

Ruin and Preservation were a specific instance, because almost all their energy was thrown into resisting each other. Keep that in mind. Even after Preservation was only a shadow, basically all of it was "Let's keep Ruin from destroying the world." So they were polar opposites. Set in balance. But slightly unbalanced in a couple of ways, that eventually, that slight imbalance... They are a special case, because of that.

Zas

So then why are they hesitant to directly fuel Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

Why are they hesitant to? What do you mean by directly fuel Allomancy?

Zas

You mention in the Hero of Ages Q&A that they can directly fuel Allomancy, like Vin does with Elend, but it requires expending their energy in a way they are hesitant to do.

Brandon Sanderson

Because it imbalances them more. Does that make sense? Like, if you are putting your energy here, rather than fighting the other force, you give them an edge somewhere else by trying to gain an edge here. And you have to make sure that's really worth it. Imagine a chess game. Is it worth sacrificing my pawn here to expose myself over here?

Orem signing (Sept. 22, 2012)

 

5 minutes ago, AvonZapper said:

I've taken a quick look at the known shards and I can't find reasonable opposites for some of them, whether or not this is due to personal error, it doesn't look like all shards have opposite shards, but some do? If anyone knows more about this please inform me.

Not all Shards have a clearly defined opposite Shard, some do not, some have more than one fitting opposite (like Odium can be considered to have Honor and Devotion as the opposite). Ruin and Preservation are bluntly opposite, but perception did play a role in making them like that. But ALL Shards has a tone, and this tone can be inverted which creates an anti-tone of a Shard - that's investiture and anti-investiture. 

Spoiler

Shardbound

Do all Shards have a direct paired opposite intent...

Brandon Sanderson

No, I would say no, they do not all have a directly paired opposite intent.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

Are Shards all paired? Does Endowment have a counterpart?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO. Also, yes and no. Not all Shards have perfect counterparts like Ruin and Preservation.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Why were Ruin and Preservation linked together?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Because they're such perfect opposites. Basically it's just an opposites attract thing.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

What Shard is the opposite of Odium in the sense of the *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

There are several that could be considered opposites--

Questioner

I mean in the assimilation sense, you’ve said that Odium doesn’t want to absorb any of the other ones but which one would want to?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, which one would want to join with him?

Questioner

Or any of them.

Brandon Sanderson

I think that if personalities had been different, Honor and Odium, there would have been a very natural pairing, not that they’re opposites but they would have attracted. [...]

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Jason Paas

Are Odium and Devotion opposites?

Brandon Sanderson

One could make that argument.

General Twitter 2016 (Feb. 1, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Argent (paraphrased)

Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

 

[Shadow of Electrum]

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Two Shards having opposite intents and nature, doesn't make them opposite in the way as anti-investiture does - anti-investiture is the inversion of any given Shard's investiture. But there are no anti-Shards. Anti-investiture is something different than Shard's nature being in polar opposition to another Shard. Anti-investiture is a property of investiture (not Shards), while Ruin being a polar opposite of Preservation is the result of their different natures. 

Shards represent different aspects of forces of nature. Preservation's nature is stasis, while Ruin's nature is entropy - destructive change. That's why they are considered opposite because their natures are on two different sides of the same spectrum. Anti-investiture is inversion of their investiture. Inversion of the whole spectrum. There is no true anti-Preservation, but you can take Preservation's investiture and invert it, which would make anti-investiture of Preservation, and just like matter and antimatter reacts explosively in contact with each other, investiture and anti-investiture of Preservation would annihilate together. Yes, Ruin and Preservation are logical opposite, but not mathematical - the destructive interference of waves is what defines anti-investiture the opposite of investiture.

Ruin isn't anti-Shard of Preservation, they do not destroy each other on contact, but he represents a different aspect of Cosmere. Instead they repel each other - you saw Mists being repelled by spikes, spikes being repelled by the Well of Ascension etc. Their whole power was thrown at each other, trying to stop each other from doing anything, but that didn't destroy them. What Vin did at the end of HoA was different, it's called Splintering, she killed Ruin's Vessel, but because their powers repelled each other so much, when she threw it at Ruin, it pushed back at her, killing both of them. Keep in mind Ruin and Preservation were able to work together and create Scadrial, where everything is made 50:50 from Ruin and Preservation's investiture which don't destroy them. Sazed were able to combine both Shards together without any destruction. HoA ch 82:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Zas

So what's up with the regeneration issue? With Shards? Because they only have so much power they can access at a certain time, but yet they still have more energy. So how does that work? Is it just they have so much power they can use at any given time?

Brandon Sanderson

What are you talking about? Like which shards?

Zas

Ruin and Preservation. Since we know the most about them.

Brandon Sanderson

Ruin and Preservation were a specific instance, because almost all their energy was thrown into resisting each other. Keep that in mind. Even after Preservation was only a shadow, basically all of it was "Let's keep Ruin from destroying the world." So they were polar opposites. Set in balance. But slightly unbalanced in a couple of ways, that eventually, that slight imbalance... They are a special case, because of that.

Zas

So then why are they hesitant to directly fuel Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

Why are they hesitant to? What do you mean by directly fuel Allomancy?

Zas

You mention in the Hero of Ages Q&A that they can directly fuel Allomancy, like Vin does with Elend, but it requires expending their energy in a way they are hesitant to do.

Brandon Sanderson

Because it imbalances them more. Does that make sense? Like, if you are putting your energy here, rather than fighting the other force, you give them an edge somewhere else by trying to gain an edge here. And you have to make sure that's really worth it. Imagine a chess game. Is it worth sacrificing my pawn here to expose myself over here?

Orem signing (Sept. 22, 2012)

 

Not all Shards have a clearly defined opposite Shard, some do not, some have more than one fitting opposite (like Odium can be considered to have Honor and Devotion as the opposite). Ruin and Preservation are bluntly opposite, but perception did play a role in making them like that. But ALL Shards has a tone, and this tone can be inverted which creates an anti-tone of a Shard - that's investiture and anti-investiture. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Shardbound

Do all Shards have a direct paired opposite intent...

Brandon Sanderson

No, I would say no, they do not all have a directly paired opposite intent.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Chaos (paraphrased)

Are Shards all paired? Does Endowment have a counterpart?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO. Also, yes and no. Not all Shards have perfect counterparts like Ruin and Preservation.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Why were Ruin and Preservation linked together?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Because they're such perfect opposites. Basically it's just an opposites attract thing.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

What Shard is the opposite of Odium in the sense of the *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

There are several that could be considered opposites--

Questioner

I mean in the assimilation sense, you’ve said that Odium doesn’t want to absorb any of the other ones but which one would want to?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, which one would want to join with him?

Questioner

Or any of them.

Brandon Sanderson

I think that if personalities had been different, Honor and Odium, there would have been a very natural pairing, not that they’re opposites but they would have attracted. [...]

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Jason Paas

Are Odium and Devotion opposites?

Brandon Sanderson

One could make that argument.

General Twitter 2016 (Feb. 1, 2016)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Argent (paraphrased)

Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

 

Thanks for the explanation! I think the thing that confused me the most was when Vin destroyed Ati. I had interpreted this as their investitures obliterating each other as if they were mathematical opposites, but with that cleared up I think I understand the interactions between shards better, so thank you!