Plot hole in Elantris

[MadMax634]

Ok, while Roaden was figuring out how the Reod struck he described it as being between human and and Elantrian. This explained why they did not have heartbeats and would never heal, etc etc. But before the Reod struck there were normal Elantrians who had already completed the transformation. So why did their hair fall out and they would not heal? They should have stayed in the same form but not be able to access the Aondor. They all ready went through the transformation. 

[Duxredux]

7 hours ago, MadMax634 said:

Ok, while Roaden was figuring out how the Reod struck he described it as being between human and and Elantrian. This explained why they did not have heartbeats and would never heal, etc etc. But before the Reod struck there were normal Elantrians who had already completed the transformation. So why did their hair fall out and they would not heal? They should have stayed in the same form but not be able to access the Aondor. They all ready went through the transformation. 

Keep in mind that Raoden doesn't have all the answers to what's going on. There can be a massive hole in Raoden's logic without a massive hole in the world building. Yes, this can be frustrating at times, but not infrequently Brandon will reserve a section of underlying magic theory for sequels.

 

I don't know if this actually how it works, but I imagine Elantris as a giant computer that is actively powering and sustaining the Elantrians. At the Reod the throughput of power and processing got crippled and the city is now trying to maintain all AonDor with scant resources. Ever used a really, really slow computer that takes forever to do anything, particularly if there's a bunch of background programs that run on startup? I think it's kind of like that. The Shaod has enough power to start the Elantrian transformation but not complete it. It has enough power to begin to heal the original Elantrian's wounds but not finish. Furthermore there's already a bunch of Aons targeting each Elantrian and there may even be a resolution priority tree. In the same way when you try to do something to an application that's frozen on a computer, even if it's closing it, sometimes it can't process the request and you have to manually end the processes associated with that program, something similar might be in place that prevented Raoden from using any Aons that directly targeted an Elantrian.

We do know that AonDor is basically a magic programming language, my analogy could be spot on including the limitations, or it could be off, but it's how ai thought of it while reading the book.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Duxredux
Decided to retract an @.

[Treamayne]

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7 hours ago, MadMax634 said:

 But before the Reod struck there were normal Elantrians who had already completed the transformation. So why did their hair fall out and they would not heal? They should have stayed in the same form but not be able to access the AonDor.

May I ask if there are any Cosmere works you have not yet read? (the most relevant in this case is Mistborn: Secret History)

Riino is an example here, note the lack of "spots" typical of a Reod Elantrian description, but lacking on Riino (ch 25):

Spoiler

He marched into the night, heading straight for the Hall of the Fallen.

The man was there, still mumbling to himself as many of the Hoed did even at night. He was small and wrinkled, his skin folded in so many places he appeared a thousand years old. His voice whispered a quiet mantra.

“Beautiful,” he rasped. “Once so very beautiful . . .”

Note that an Elantrian that has completed the Shaod looks aged when the Reod struck (also seen in M:SH) because the Dor is what provides health, life, energy. They do not have the "black spots" because all of their skin is a uniform darkened silver (the Elantrian skin - dulled by a lack of Connection to the Dor). Without a valid Connection to the Dor, they also cannot heal and the skin shrivels like a deflated balloon. Also, an Elantrian requires access to the Dor to survive (M:SH and Oathbringer Spoilers)

Spoiler

In M:SH we see the Ire, who also have the bald head, dark silver skin, and wrinkled appearance; they also carry jars of (purified?) Dor that they must drink to sustain themselves:

Ch 5-2:

Quote

The creature that entered seemed ... well, mostly human. Wizened, dried up, the woman had puckered lips, a bald scalp, and strange silvery-dark skin. She glowed faintly with the same quiet blue-white light as the walls.

CH 5-3:

Quote

Each “night” the caravan made camp in an anxious little cluster of bedrolls around a campfire, much like the one in Kelsier’s pack. The ancients got out jars of light, drinking and restoring the luminance to their skin. They didn’t chat much; these people seemed less like friends and more like a group of noblemen who considered one another allies by necessity.

Wehn we see Riino again, on Roshar, he still has the wrinkled skin. Since we know all three events are separated by significant amounts of time, this implies that when away from Sel, an Elantrian without direct connection to the Dor looks similar to the effects of the Reod - except they can use the jars of Dor to sustain themselves, heal and use AonDor. OB Ch 79:

Quote

He took a breath, then glanced up through the open-shuttered window, into the ground floor of the lighthouse.

Inside, he saw an old Shin man—with furrowed, wrinkled skin and a completely bald head—sitting in a chair, reading by spherelight. A human?

Note that Riino, in this case, is somehow disguising his skin color to appear human - likely Aon Shao.

So, without the sustained Connection to the Dor, their hair still falls out, the skin darkens and wrinkles, and they cannot heal - but the strained Connection is still enough to sustain life (barely). When away from Sel, the effects are similar - though access to jars of Dor can temporarily restore the glowing skin, healing, and access to AonDor (once they knew of the Chasm Line and could make the Aons function) - but away from Sel you also require more "hacks" to make AonDor work - as seen in The Lost Metal and Tress of the Emerald Sea.

 

43 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Looks like @Treamayne, is here, they'll probably pull up WoBs.

No WoBs needed, since all of the information required is already published. At least for the OP's question - not the nature of Elantris or how the Shaod specifically functions.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[trav]

The "transformation" is complete in both cases. The power that sustains them in also lacking in both.

Raod Elantrians are still all able to access AonDor, just like the original Elantrians.

You could think of them like Returned that would permanently get granted Investiture to not only keep them alive, but also give them additional power. Without this Investiture the Returned would all fare the same way no matter when they returned (with maybe a little reserver for a few days...). If the power flowing in becomes so little that they can barely keep themselves alive than this would effect Reod Elantrians the same way as it would the original ones.

Edited September 28, 2023 by trav

[alder24]

1 hour ago, trav said:

The "transformation" is complete in both cases.

No, in the case of new Reod Elantrians they are stuck mid-transformation. The process was started but without sufficient amounts of Dor, which they can't pull in with incomplete Elantris Aon, it couldn't be finished.

Spoiler

mail-mi

Most of my questions are actually about the Reod Elantrians.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay.

mail-mi

So, could they be felt by life sense?

Brandon Sanderson

They would, um...they are in the middle of a transformation. I would say that yes they could be, but you're going to get like a stutter is what I'd guess you would get, it's like you would get a...a flashing.

mail-mi

Because they're kind of alive, and kind of not alive.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. And so, yeah, you'd just get a flashing sort of....something.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

Elantris ch 49:

Spoiler

“Our bodies are frozen in the middle of being changed, Galladon,” he explained, watching a sheet of paper hover in front of him, then burst into flames. Linked Aons appeared to work. “The Shaod hasn’t finished with us— whatever’s keeping the Aons from reaching their full potential is also stopping us from becoming true Elantrians. Until our transformation is finished, it appears that no Aons can affect us.”

 

[trav]

44 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, in the case of new Reod Elantrians they are stuck mid-transformation. The process was started but without sufficient amounts of Dor, which they can't pull in with incomplete Elantris Aon, it couldn't be finished.

  Hide contents

mail-mi

Most of my questions are actually about the Reod Elantrians.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay.

mail-mi

So, could they be felt by life sense?

Brandon Sanderson

They would, um...they are in the middle of a transformation. I would say that yes they could be, but you're going to get like a stutter is what I'd guess you would get, it's like you would get a...a flashing.

mail-mi

Because they're kind of alive, and kind of not alive.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. And so, yeah, you'd just get a flashing sort of....something.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

Elantris ch 49:

  Hide contents

“Our bodies are frozen in the middle of being changed, Galladon,” he explained, watching a sheet of paper hover in front of him, then burst into flames. Linked Aons appeared to work. “The Shaod hasn’t finished with us— whatever’s keeping the Aons from reaching their full potential is also stopping us from becoming true Elantrians. Until our transformation is finished, it appears that no Aons can affect us.”

 

Galladon is spitballing and Brandon is contradicting what we see. There should be a difference between old and new Elantrians then. As OP noted.

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, trav said:

Galladon is spitballing and Brandon is contradicting what we see. There should be a difference between old and new Elantrians then. As OP noted.

WoB doesn't contradict anything, it confirms what Raoden said in the quote. There are differences between old Elantrians and new Reod Elantrians, they were pointed out by @Treamayne earlier:

On 25.09.2023 at 1:45 PM, Treamayne said:

Riino is an example here, note the lack of "spots" typical of a Reod Elantrian description, but lacking on Riino (ch 25):

  Hide contents

He marched into the night, heading straight for the Hall of the Fallen.

The man was there, still mumbling to himself as many of the Hoed did even at night. He was small and wrinkled, his skin folded in so many places he appeared a thousand years old. His voice whispered a quiet mantra.

“Beautiful,” he rasped. “Once so very beautiful . . .”

Note that an Elantrian that has completed the Shaod looks aged when the Reod struck (also seen in M:SH) because the Dor is what provides health, life, energy. They do not have the "black spots" because all of their skin is a uniform darkened silver (the Elantrian skin - dulled by a lack of Connection to the Dor). Without a valid Connection to the Dor, they also cannot heal and the skin shrivels like a deflated balloon. Also, an Elantrian requires access to the Dor to survive (M:SH and Oathbringer Spoilers)

  Hide contents

In M:SH we see the Ire, who also have the bald head, dark silver skin, and wrinkled appearance; they also carry jars of (purified?) Dor that they must drink to sustain themselves:

Ch 5-2:

Quote

The creature that entered seemed ... well, mostly human. Wizened, dried up, the woman had puckered lips, a bald scalp, and strange silvery-dark skin. She glowed faintly with the same quiet blue-white light as the walls.

CH 5-3:

Quote

Each “night” the caravan made camp in an anxious little cluster of bedrolls around a campfire, much like the one in Kelsier’s pack. The ancients got out jars of light, drinking and restoring the luminance to their skin. They didn’t chat much; these people seemed less like friends and more like a group of noblemen who considered one another allies by necessity.

Wehn we see Riino again, on Roshar, he still has the wrinkled skin. Since we know all three events are separated by significant amounts of time, this implies that when away from Sel, an Elantrian without direct connection to the Dor looks similar to the effects of the Reod - except they can use the jars of Dor to sustain themselves, heal and use AonDor. OB Ch 79:

Quote

He took a breath, then glanced up through the open-shuttered window, into the ground floor of the lighthouse.

Inside, he saw an old Shin man—with furrowed, wrinkled skin and a completely bald head—sitting in a chair, reading by spherelight. A human?

Note that Riino, in this case, is somehow disguising his skin color to appear human - likely Aon Shao.

So, without the sustained Connection to the Dor, their hair still falls out, the skin darkens and wrinkles, and they cannot heal - but the strained Connection is still enough to sustain life (barely). When away from Sel, the effects are similar - though access to jars of Dor can temporarily restore the glowing skin, healing, and access to AonDor (once they knew of the Chasm Line and could make the Aons function) - but away from Sel you also require more "hacks" to make AonDor work - as seen in The Lost Metal and Tress of the Emerald Sea.

 

[trav]

@alder24

Just doing a reread and both Kiin and Raoden describe the Elantrians as having patchy (splotched, black spots) skin. They both refer to the Elantrians before the Reod, not new ones.

Its inconsistent at best or Raoden was just noticing an additional strange feater like wrinkles and ommited the rest.

Edited October 2, 2023 by trav

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, trav said:

Just doing a reread and both Kiin and Raoden describe the Elantrians as having patchy (splotched, black spots) skin. They both refer to the Elantrians before the Reod, not new ones.

You'll have to quote what and where you saw that, because that is the opposite of what the book says:

Spoiler

CH 5 (explaining the Reod Riots)

Quote

Kiin looked at his wife, then back at Sarene. “Sarene, do you know what happened here ten years ago?”

“The Reod?” Sarene asked. “The Punishment?”

“Yes, but do you know what that means?”

Sarene thought for a moment, then shrugged. “The end of the Elantrians.”

Kiin nodded. “You probably never met an Elantrian—you were still young when the Reod hit. It is hard to explain how much this country changed when the disaster struck. Elantris used to be the most beautiful city in the world—trust me, I’ve been everywhere else. It was a monument of glowing stone and lustrous metal, and its inhabitants looked like they were chiseled from the same materials. Then … they fell.”

“Yes, I’ve studied this before,” Sarene said, nodding. “Their skin turned dark with black spots, and their hair began to fall from their skulls.”

“You can say that with the knowledge of books,” Kiin said, “but you weren’t here when it happened. You can’t know the horror that comes from seeing gods turn wretched and foul. Their fall destroyed the Arelene government, throwing the country into total chaos.”

Ch 19 (Raoden's Flashback - being healed)

Quote

Light shone from glowing Aons on the walls. A woman approached, her white hair long and full, her silvery face smiling encouragingly. She ignored his father’s distrust, her eyes sympathetic as she took the boy from hesitant arms. She laid him carefully on a soft mat, then brought her hand into the air above him, her long, thin index finger pointing at nothing.

The Elantrian moved her hand slowly, and the air began to glow. A trail of light followed her finger. It was a rupture in the air, a line that radiated with deep intensity. It was as if a river of light were trying to force its way through the small crack. The boy could feel the power; he could sense it raging to be free, but only this little was allowed to escape. Even that much was so bright that he could barely see.

The woman traced carefully, completing Aon Ien—but it wasn’t just Aon Ien, it was more complex. The core was the familiar Aon of healing, but there were dozens of lines and curves at the sides. The boy’s brow wrinkled—he had been taught the Aons by his tutors, and it seemed odd that the woman should change this one so drastically.

The beautiful Elantrian made one final mark at the side of her complex construction, and the Aon began to glow even more intensely. 

CH 34 (Explaining the Dor Connection)

Quote

“Aon Ashe?” Galladon asked.

“Correct,” Raoden said. “You know that Elantrian skin was so silvery that some people claimed it glowed.”

“It did,” Galladon said. “Not brightly, but when my father walked into a dark room, you could see his outline.”

“Well, the Dor was behind it,” Raoden said. “Every Elantrian’s body is connected constantly to the Dor. The same link existed between Elantris itself and the Dor, though the scholars don’t know why. The Dor infused the entire city, making stone and wood shine as if some quiet flame were burning within.”

 

 

[trav]

Not sure what you are getting at. The quote from Kiin and Sarenes conversation says that Elantrians (original) skin turned patchy. They are not referring to Elantrians made after the Reod.

Elantrians made before the Reod and Elantrians made after the Reod are both described equally.

Same thing in a conversation between Hrathen and Dilaf right after they saw a new Elantrians. Dilaf confirmed that the original ones looked "much like that".

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, trav said:

Not sure what you are getting at. The quote from Kiin and Sarenes conversation says that Elantrians (original) skin turned patchy. They are not referring to Elantrians made after the Reod.

Your statement that I quoted sounded like you thought that Elantrians has "spots" before teh Reod (which is why I bolded the part to which I was replying).

6 hours ago, trav said:

Elantrians made before the Reod and Elantrians made after the Reod are both described equally.

Same thing in a conversation between Hrathen and Dilaf right after they saw a new Elantrians. Dilaf confirmed that the original ones looked "much like that".

Right, so three people - none of whom are Elantrian, nor where they present when the Reod struck*, nor did they actually see an individual Elantrian both pre-and-post Reod (comparison) - all think that there is no difference. And, for some reason, you think this holds more weight than seeing an actual pre-Reod Elantrian from Raoden's PoV - especially when that viewpoint is corroborated by two other books on two other Shardworlds.

• Spoiler

  Note: Hrathen was in Fjorden, Serene was in Teod, Dilaf was on the southern border between Duladen and Arelon.

  I'm sorry if I sound dismissive. Please feel free to use your own head-canon. I can only share the evidence from books and WoBs, and the speculation I (we) have drawn from that evidence. The OP asked "why did the pre-Reod Elantrians stop healing and lose their hair?" The best understood answer (and it's evidence, as quoted above) is that the Reod severly restricted the flow of Dor, which is required to sustain Elantrians' bodies.

• A Pre-Reod Elantrian and a Post-Restoration Elantrian are the same (barring age).

Edited October 4, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[trav]

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Your statement that I quoted sounded like you thought that Elantrians has "spots" before teh Reod (which is why I bolded the part to which I was replying).

Right, so three people - none of whom are Elantrian, nor where they present when the Reod struck*, nor did they actually see an individual Elantrian both pre-and-post Reod (comparison) - all think that there is no difference. And, for some reason, you think this holds more weight than seeing an actual pre-Reod Elantrian from Raoden's PoV - especially when that viewpoint is corroborated by two other books on two other Shardworlds.

•   Reveal hidden contents

  Note: Hrathen was in Fjorden, Serene was in Teod, Dilaf was on the southern border between Duladen and Arelon.

  I'm sorry if I sound dismissive. Please feel free to use your own head-canon. I can only share the evidence from books and WoBs, and the speculation I (we) have drawn from that evidence. The OP asked "why did the pre-Reod Elantrians stop healing and lose their hair?" The best understood answer (and it's evidence, as quoted above) is that the Reod severly restricted the flow of Dor, which is required to sustain Elantrians' bodies.

• A Pre-Reod Elantrian and a Post-Restoration Elantrian are the same (barring age).

Kiin speaks like he saw it happening. He also clearly witnessed the riots and murders. Raoden was also there when it happened. As was Dilaf.

Raoden is highlighting a fact about someone he saw. Wrinkles are not that special. Very deep wrinkles are. I doubt he is omitting the rest because it isn't there. Raoden should notice missing spots. Everyone else has them. I don't doubt that Elantrians will shrivel up. In the other books they are only replenishing Investiture to get rid of the wrinkles. The rest of the Shoad affliction is obviously missing. Lack of power causes the wrinkles and this affects pre as well as post Reod Elantrians. The OG ones were just subjected to it for longer.

Through the effects of the incomplete Shaod, Karata was bald and had grey wrinkled skin covered with dark splotches.

Karata got turned after the Reod and she also has wrinkled skin even though she was not a very old woman (She has a young child). Its also said that this happens to people who are in the city for long.

The WoB says that the Transformation of post-Reod Elantrians isn't complete. You only assume that there are distinct visual cues for it. The book does not reflect this.

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, trav said:

Kiin speaks like he saw it happening. He also clearly witnessed the riots and murders. Raoden was also there when it happened. As was Dilaf.

Kiin was there - he was not the one to mention the splotches.

Raoden was there - he also did not mention the plotches

Dilaf was not there - he was in the south, travelled to Elantris to get his wife healed, she was healed incorrectly and committed suicide, then he returned south to get away from the creatures that murdered his wife. After the Reod, he returned to Kae because the Elantrians were gone and Wyrn needed a spy in the city to plan the invasion.

4 hours ago, trav said:

Karata got turned after the Reod and she also has wrinkled skin even though she was not a very old woman (She has a young child). Its also said that this happens to people who are in the city for long.

I cannot stress enough that the "black plotches/spots" are the areas where the Shaod has started to turn their skin to silver, but could nto finish the transformation. A Pre-Reod Elantrian is already uniformly Silver in color (all this explained in my first post in this thread) and does not have spots, splotches or whatever. The silvery skin turns dulled gray. Yes karata has wrinkles, they all have wrinkles eventually. It's explained in the text. Go reread the descrption of Riino or the Ire and you will see a difference in how extensively the wrinkles appear. The longer you have been Elantrian, the more wrinkes seen when the Dor is not suffusing the body.

Spoiler

Ch 23:

Quote

Sarene saw him give a bag to what must have been a little girl, though her head was bald and her lips creased by wrinkles. The girl smiled with an incongruous innocence, then scampered away. 

Ch 43:

Quote

Sarene’s body seemed to be adapting remarkably well to the Shaod. Further signs of degeneration were usually visible after just a few days—wrinkles and creases appearing in the skin, the body’s remaining flesh color dulling to a pallid white. Sarene showed none of this—her skin was as smooth and vibrant as the day she had entered Elantris.

 

Quote

The WoB says that the Transformation of post-Reod Elantrians isn't complete. You only assume that there are distinct visual cues for it. The book does not reflect this.

It was also his first book, and required changes for the 10th anniversary edition because some of the Cosmere lore was not in place when it was written. Which version are you reading?

[trav]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Which version are you reading?

Its the 10th anniversary edition. Not that it matters since nothing relevant in this regard was changed.

Kiin does not contradict Sarene. He would if what she says wasn't accurate. 
Yes, Raoden does describe Elantrians as having been turned into creatures with splotchy skin.

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Riino or the Ire

Obviously missing the signs of the Reod since the Reod is over. No one has the black spots anymore at that point. The only thing you can use is that Raoden omits the black spots when he thinks about the old Hoed. However, no one in the group, not Karata, not Galladon, not Raoden, mention anything out of the ordinary for this pre-Shoad Elantrian. They notice every detail of the rooms they pass when they bring him to the pool, but never that the man is missing the spots.

What happens in Secret History is less than what happens in the Reod, so no spots, obviously.

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

how extensively the wrinkles appear

You went from "tell tale sign" to "okay its just more prominent on them". It is explained that the wrinkles appear the longer you are affected by the Reod. Deprivation of Connection or Investiture effects Elantrians, no matter when they Transformed.

 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, trav said:

What happens in Secret History is less than what happens in the Reod, so no spots, obviously.

Not really, just like with Reod Elantrians, the Ire and Riino lack a stable connection to the Dor, and Dor can't heal them and sustain them - they reverted close to the form of Reod. But Reod Elantrins didn't complete their transformation, that's why they have dark spots, while Ire have uniformly dark skin, just like Elantrians who lived through Reod, as they completed their transformation, but now lack Dor to sustain them. I agree with @Treamayne as it just makes a lot of sense based on sparse evidence we have.

The Ire were also differently affected by the Reod. Why? Because their body was already in a similar state:

Spoiler

Strumienpola (paraphrased)

Did the Reod affect the Ire?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It did in some way.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

[trav]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

while Ire have uniformly dark skin

This would be so clear to see on the Hoed then. Its not something you could miss even when trying.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

the Ire and Riino lack a stable connection to the Dor

The glowing jars of the Ire looks like the Investiture jar. Maybe they also restore Connection, but idk. This is how they sustain themselves. The connection is required for the Aons. Riino in SA is post Reod. Everyone post Reod would look like this.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

as they completed their transformation

The quote the book. It should not be hard. There is no visual difference mentioned or noted. You assume that the transformation has visual cues. It does not reflect in the book.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

The Ire were also differently affected by the Reod. Why? Because their body was already in a similar state:

That WoB could mean anything. Its not really specific now, is it? Is it referring to a difference in SR and PR? Something else entirely?

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, trav said:

This would be so clear to see on the Hoed then. Its not something you could miss even when trying.

It is, they have wrinkles indicating thousands of years, covering their skin.

18 minutes ago, trav said:

The glowing jars of the Ire looks like the Investiture jar.

That's not a stable connection, that's just a surplus of raw investiture necessary to function.

20 minutes ago, trav said:

The connection is required for the Aons.

The connection is required to draw from the Dor, their body needs that too. They can't get investiture directly from the Dor because they are in CR, where the Dor is but also far away from it.

22 minutes ago, trav said:

The quote the book. It should not be hard. There is no visual difference mentioned or noted. You assume that the transformation has visual cues. It does not reflect in the book.

You're wrong, dark spots are the visual clue of transformation. Ch 25:

Quote

Raoden shrugged. “Some things. Hints, mostly.” He flipped back in the book to a page he had marked. “Like this case. About ten years before the Reod, a man brought his wife to Elantris to receive treatment for her palsy. However, the Elantrian healer drew Aon Ien slightly wrong—and instead of just vanishing, the character flashed and bathed the poor woman in a reddish light. She was left with black splotches on her skin and limp hair that soon fell out. Sound familiar?”
Galladon raised an eyebrow.
“She died a short time later,” Raoden said. “She threw herself off a building, screaming that the pain was too much.”
Galladon frowned. “What did the healer do wrong?”
“It wasn’t an error so much as an omission,” Raoden said. “He left out one of the three basic lines. A foolish error, but it shouldn’t have had such a drastic effect.” Raoden studied the page thoughtfully.
“It’s almost like…”
“Like what, sule?”
“Well, the Aon wasn’t completed, right?”
“Kolo.”
“So, maybe the healing began, but couldn’t finish because its instructions weren’t complete,” Raoden said. “What if the mistake still created a viable Aon—one that could access the Dor, but couldn’t provide enough energy to finish what it started?”
“What are you implying, sule?”
Raoden’s eyes opened wide. “That we aren’t dead, my friend.”
“No heartbeat. No breathing. No blood. I couldn’t agree with you more.”
“No, really,” Raoden said, growing excited. “Don’t you see—our bodies are trapped in some kind of half transformation. The process began, but something blocked it—just like in that woman’s healing. The Dor is still within us, waiting for the direction and the energy to finish what it started.”
“I don’t know that I follow you, sule,” Galladon said hesitantly.
Raoden wasn’t listening. “That’s why our bodies never heal—it’s like they’re trapped in the same moment in time. Frozen, like a fish in a block of ice. The pain doesn’t go away because our bodies think time isn’t passing. They’re stuck, waiting for the end of their transformation. Our hair falls away and nothing new grows to replace it. Our skin turns black in the spots where the Shaod began, then halted as it ran out of strength.”

The difference is that Reod Elantrains aren't Elantrains YET, while pre-Reod Elantrians are and they would react to Reod slightly differently. One, like Riino, completed their transformation, the other, like Raoden, didn't. One already had a silver skin, the other didn't. Elantrains without constant supply of Dor turns dim, dark, dull, as evident by the Ire - that's what Reod is, it cuts off their supply of investiture. Why would you say that pre-Reod Elantrians didn't complete their transformation, when it's this transformation that makes them Elantrians? Why would a fully silver skin shrinked into patches of dark spots with the rest of the skin slowly turning from pale into brownish-gray?

[trav]

This again is Raoden guessing what is happening. He doesn't know.

But as you see he is aware of all the tell tale visual indications of the Reod Elantrians. Yet he never mentions or notices an absence of them on anyone.

Not the old Hoed nor the freshly fallen Elantrians. No one in the book does. Black spots all over aren't easy to miss.

There is no visual difference indicated in the entire book between original Elantrians and post Reod Elantrians.

The reason why both pre Reod and post Reod Elantrians look the same is because they suffer from the same ailment. The rest is conjecture.

Quote

However, the Elantrian healer drew Aon Ien slightly wrong—and instead of just vanishing, the character flashed and bathed the poor woman in a reddish light. She was left with black splotches on her skin and limp hair that soon fell out. Sounds familiar?"[/quote]

 

The red light indicated corruption. Like a corrupted, slightly wrong drawn Aon. Corrupted AonDor left the woman in a similar state as Reod Elantrians except for the wrinkles. What the Ire and Riino are experiencing post Reod isn't corruption. It is a lack of Connection and Investiture. So they shrivel up. Old Elantrians were subjected to the same Corruption of Dor as the new Elantrians so it makes sense that they are afflicted by the same splotchy skin.

Edited October 5, 2023 by trav