Hoid's Magic (SP1)

[The Isochronism he/him]

Can someone remind me how both Hoid and the sorcerer are able to use elantris magic on Lumar? Isn't that a big no-no for you to use elantris magic off of Sel, since that magic is powered by Sel's investiture storm? While you're at it can you tell me how Moonlight was able to use that magic on Scadrial in TLM? I vaguely remember hearing something about a moon scepter, but I'd love for someone smart to come spell this out for me. Thanks in advance

[alder24]

26 minutes ago, Bondsmith-Edgedancer said:

Can someone remind me how both Hoid and the sorcerer are able to use elantris magic on Lumar?

We have no idea. I see two possibilities. The first one is what Shai did in TLM - Riina draw the map of Lumar which somehow connected her to the planet and allow her to use Aons powered by supplied Dor (like in jars) - but the map in Riina's ship wasn't glowing, and there were no jars of Dor laying around Hoid or Riina. Maybe jars of Dor aren't needed and strong connection is the only thing you need to draw Dor directly from Selish CR. After all, you can use F-duralumin to tap your connection to Elantris and be able to use Aons on different worlds without any additional supply of investiture, so the map should work like that too:

Spoiler

DoritoJH

So, AonDor is super versatile and powerful.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but region-locked!

DoritoJH

Yes, it is region locked, exactly. If a full Feruchemist using nicrosil were to create an unlocked medallion that allowed an Elantrian to store Connection to Elantris' location, would it let them use AonDor at full power as long as they were tapping that Connection?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. That should work just fine.

...

Just understand that the medallion's going to have to be usable by everyone in order to work. You're going to have to jump through some hoops, but I think what you want there would work. And for those of you listening, that would be the harder way to unlock AonDor. There are easier methods.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 31, 2019)

The second option is that because Tress takes place in the far future of Cosmere, Dor was somehow fixed, someone Ascended and became a dual Selish Shard holder, pushing investiture back into SR and removing the location limitation.

29 minutes ago, Bondsmith-Edgedancer said:

While you're at it can you tell me how Moonlight was able to use that magic on Scadrial in TLM?

She had Dor in a jar which she used as the investiture source, but also created an Aon/map of Scadrian Basin to connect her to the planet, and to act like the city of Elantris, amplifying the power of Aons - or something like that, we don't know precisely how it works, but it involves connection. 

Spoiler

Jofwu

Why did Shay-I have to draw a map of the Elendel basin, if the jar of Dor was her source of Investiture? Did the map connect her to another source of Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

No, the map didn't, but her magic is still wonky. Selish magic has some wonkiness to it and it needs to be tricked.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

33 minutes ago, Bondsmith-Edgedancer said:

I vaguely remember hearing something about a moon scepter,

Hoid has it, not Shai. It does something else:

Spoiler

ParadoxicalZen

How exactly is the Moon Scepter linked to the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

The Moon Scepter is-- I suppose I can canonize this, now. Okay you're getting one out of me. So the big thing about the Moon Scepter that it was-- It is a Rosetta stone for the [Selish] magics. Meaning it translates them from one to another, and what the different symbols mean, does that make sense.

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

 

[Treamayne]

41 minutes ago, Bondsmith-Edgedancer said:

Can someone remind me how both Hoid and the sorcerer are able to use elantris magic on Lumar? Isn't that a big no-no for you to use elantris magic off of Sel, since that magic is powered by Sel's investiture storm? While you're at it can you tell me how Moonlight was able to use that magic on Scadrial in TLM? I vaguely remember hearing something about a moon scepter, but I'd love for someone smart to come spell this out for me. Thanks in advance

The Moon Scepter was something different (WoB):

Spoiler

ParadoxicalZen

How exactly is the Moon Scepter linked to the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

The Moon Scepter is-- I suppose I can canonize this, now. Okay you're getting one out of me. So the big thing about the Moon Scepter that it was-- It is a Rosetta stone for the [Selish] magics. Meaning it translates them from one to another, and what the different symbols mean, does that make sense.

In The Lost Metal, We see Moonlight use a picture of the Basin when she begins to forge the connection to the Dor. It is theorized that by forging a connection to the land represented by the picture, she was "tricking" the magic into behaving as if the basin was Arelon - which then allowed her to forge herself as an Elantrian and access AonDor.

In Tress of the Emerald Sea, we see a similar set-up where Riina (Sorceress) has created a detailed map of Lumar on the floor of her room. Presumably, she is using a similar technique to create a connection between the Dor and Lumar to allow her to access AonDor as if Lumar were Arelon.

Most of this is conjecture - but fairly supported with the information we have so far.

[Rallohir]

Just assume that if it is not the map theory I would say that a duralumin metalmind is the answer