How do you feel about the Books scheduled Flashbacks?

[Guest]

...

 

Overall, Shalash presence in this line-up is disturbing. Most of us have associated Eshonai with the Willshaper (and we could be wrong, but most evidence seems to point that way), which would leave poor Dustbringers without any flashback, unless Shalash decides to change order and kills Chach... 

 

I agree overall with you that Szeth and Eshonai may not end up being KR, but simply associated to a giving order. I would be fine with this, but how could the herald of another order be associated with our missing one? Are we back to the Shalash is shshshsh's theory then?

 

It leaves one big open question: what is the deal with Dustbringers (OK admitting I am wrong and book 4 is about them, replace word Dustbringer by Willshapers) and how come they don't get a representative nor a book like all the others?

[kadolin]

As evidence in how bk 1 n 2 was written, the major pov characters and associated KR orders dont necessarily reflect the story progression. Dustbringers can and probably have a fair amount of screentime along with other major characters. Considering Dustbringers, skybreakers and windrunners being the combat forces of the KR, I believe we will definitely see much action from each.

Basically these representations dont quite reflect how much is revealed for the unmentioned characters/orders, nor do I believe the order of the books to reflect when the character's story are revealed.

 

Edit: Me thinks Brandon has hard time squeezing in KR representatives into 10 books while also wanting to include POV from villians, heralds and whatnot. So he just overlaps and condense some of them to allow for more perspectives other than just the KRs. 

Edited August 9, 2014 by kadolin

[Guest]

As evidence in how bk 1 n 2 was written, the major pov characters and associated KR orders dont necessarily reflect the story progression. Dustbringers can and probably have a fair amount of screentime along with other major characters. Considering Dustbringers, skybreakers and windrunners being the combat forces of the KR, I believe we will definitely see much action from each.

 

Yeah but book one still is the Windrunners book, book two still is the Lightweavers book and book three will be the Skybreakers book.... Whether or not much is revealed about the order in the said book (and I do believe we learned quite a lot about each order in the first two books), we still have a planned progression of one book, one order and one flashback character that "fits".

 

Dustbringer is just the big exception to the rule.....

 

 

Basically these representations dont quite reflect how much is revealed for the unmentioned characters/orders, nor do I believe the order of the books to reflect when the character's story are revealed.

 

Edit: Me thinks Brandon has hard time squeezing in KR representatives into 10 books while also wanting to include POV from villians, heralds and whatnot. So he just overlaps and condense some of them to allow for more perspectives other than just the KRs. 

 

Yeah well the order is not fixed yet (second half), so I don't think we should draw too many conclusions based on it.

 

True enough, but it still works out pretty well. He planned Taln, who may not be a KR, but is the Herald of the Stonewards... Shalash is just weird if you compare her to the rest of the line-up. It breaks the whole pattern

[kadolin]

Yeah but book one still is the Windrunners book, book two still is the Lightweavers book and book three will be the Skybreakers book.... Whether or not much is revealed about the order in the said book (and I do believe we learned quite a lot about each order in the first two books), we still have a planned progression of one book, one order and one flashback character that "fits".

Kaladin's journey to KR was half in bk 1 and half in bk 2 somewhat, specifically Windrunner details more in bk 2 despite it being Lightweaver & Shallan. So there is no need to rigidly sticking to one order per book despite its intentions. We will most likely see more story for eac h order sooner than the intended books and even after so, just like Kaladin and Shallan will probably be significant secondary POV characters in other books not intended to focus on them.

Dustbringer is just the big exception to the rule.....

Dustbringer is assigned one book like the rest, but its associated POV character is unclear (along with afew others).

Yeah well the order is not fixed yet (second half), so I don't think we should draw too many conclusions based on it.

My point was the order doesnt mean much.

True enough, but it still works out pretty well. He planned Taln, who may not be a KR, but is the Herald of the Stonewards... Shalash is just weird if you compare her to the rest of the line-up. It breaks the whole pattern

Hard to say when not alot is revealed, but a herald associated to another order is unexpected but not necessarily unpleasant. A nice Brandon surprise awaits maybe.

Edited August 9, 2014 by kadolin

[Aleksiel]

I'd prefer to read Rysn and Vargo's flashbacks instead of the two Heralds.

 

I like Ren, but I think Jezrien or Nalan would be more interesting as flashbacks characters. Or any other not-Taln Herald, so we get to see the breaking of the Oathpact and its effects. Well, Ash would do nicely for this, but for now I'd prefer Rysn over her so we get to explore Roshar more.

[Guest]

 

Yeah but book one still is the Windrunners book, book two still is the Lightweavers book and book three will be the Skybreakers book.... Whether or not much is revealed about the order in the said book (and I do believe we learned quite a lot about each order in the first two books), we still have a planned progression of one book, one order and one flashback character that "fits".

Kaladin's journey to KR was half in bk 1 and half in bk 2 somewhat, specifically Windrunner details more in bk 2 despite it being Lightweaver & Shallan. So there is no need to rigidly sticking to one order per book despite its intentions. We will most likely see more story for eac h order sooner than the intended books and even after so, just like Kaladin and Shallan will probably be significant secondary POV characters in other books not intended to focus on them.

 

 

 

I treat book 1 differently as it also served to give us background on the overall story. I did not know what a Radiant was until the end and I did not know about the surges and the orders until Jasnah explained it in WoR.... Considering Brandon had to spend some time doing world building and considering Kal did not even know about the Radiants, then yeah there was not enough place to overly talk about the Windrunners. I felt that was aptly corrected in the second book. As for the Lioghtweavers, we learned about their progression mechanism, their spren, their surges, we have a general idea of what they can accomplish, so yeah, I'd say we learned quite a bit.

 

I expect other books to be more like the second and not the first... Our characters now know about the Radiants, about the surges and everything. Brandon does not have to keep the mysticism about the Radiant and use their return as a climax: this was done.

 

I agree we are bound to read some story about the other orders in other books. I expect to learn about the Bondsmiths and the Truthwatchers in the following books. However, Brandon did specifically say he intended one book per order and this is were I am being bugged.

 

 

 

Dustbringer is just the big exception to the rule.....

Dustbringer is assigned one book like the rest, but its associated POV character is unclear (along with afew others).

 

It is not as unclear as it seem.... There are only two open spots and I am 97% convinced book 4 is about Willshaper, so the Shalash book has to be the Dustbringer book. Having Shalash as POV character for this one just clashes with the rest. I would not tick so much on it if three were other books similarly planned.........

 

 

 

True enough, but it still works out pretty well. He planned Taln, who may not be a KR, but is the Herald of the Stonewards... Shalash is just weird if you compare her to the rest of the line-up. It breaks the whole pattern

Hard to say when not alot is revealed, but a herald associated to another order is unexpected but not necessarily unpleasant. A nice Brandon surprise awaits maybe.

 

 

But the PATTERN! Think about the pattern It is broken :o It is not being followed. Pattern would never go for it

[Edgedancer he/him]

I treat book 1 differently as it also served to give us background on the overall story. I did not know what a Radiant was until the end and I did not know about the surges and the orders until Jasnah explained it in WoR.... Considering Brandon had to spend some time doing world building and considering Kal did not even know about the Radiants, then yeah there was not enough place to overly talk about the Windrunners. I felt that was aptly corrected in the second book. As for the Lioghtweavers, we learned about their progression mechanism, their spren, their surges, we have a general idea of what they can accomplish, so yeah, I'd say we learned quite a bit.

 

I expect other books to be more like the second and not the first... Our characters now know about the Radiants, about the surges and everything. Brandon does not have to keep the mysticism about the Radiant and use their return as a climax: this was done.

 

I agree we are bound to read some story about the other orders in other books. I expect to learn about the Bondsmiths and the Truthwatchers in the following books. However, Brandon did specifically say he intended one book per order and this is were I am being bugged.

 

 

 

It is not as unclear as it seem.... There are only two open spots and I am 97% convinced book 4 is about Willshaper, so the Shalash book has to be the Dustbringer book. Having Shalash as POV character for this one just clashes with the rest. I would not tick so much on it if three were other books similarly planned.........

 

 

 

But the PATTERN! Think about the pattern It is broken :o It is not being followed. Pattern would never go for it

About book 1 and Windrunners, it also had Szeth, who while not being a Windrunner did have their powerset. Combined with Kaladins personality this gave us a pretty good idea what Windrunners are like, even if it didn´t explain everything.

 

How to fix the pattern... Shalash will become a Dustbringer. Yeah I´m not buying that myself, I just wanted to say something strange.

[Guest]

How to fix the pattern... Shalash will become a Dustbringer. Yeah I´m not buying that myself, I just wanted to say something strange.

 

Haha, in one of my previous post, I theorized Shalash would murder Chach and become head of the Dustbringers order I mean, creative/honest compares really well to brave/obedient, right?

[Left he/him]

Shalash will die or will already have died, and Adolin will have the dustbringer Honorblade. That way she gets her flash backs, he'll be a dustbringer, and someone interesting can have the spotlight for the book

[bookspren]

 

Shalash will die or will already have died, and Adolin will have the dustbringer Honorblade. That way she gets her flash backs, he'll be a dustbringer, and someone interesting can have the spotlight for the book

This. Must. Happen. It would solve everything.

 

Seriously, though, that's not a bad idea; it might be possible. I can dream, right?

Edited August 9, 2014 by bookspren

[Gaussian]

Personally, i am not very interested in Eshonai's backstory as I felt we already got a good feel for it in Words of Radiance, so I don't think it would provide an entire book's worth of flashbacks.  In her place I think Navani would be a lot more interesting.  Taravangian's past would also be interesting but I don't feel it would take an entire book, rather like Eshonai's.  I'm not sure on Taln, as having chapter after chapter on torture and torment in Damnation would be excruciatingly tedious, but if something more exciting were going on I could enjoy it.  I think instead of just Shallash, it should be a flashback book for the heralds in general (with a possible exception for Taln, as he wasn't exactly with the rest of them).  I also don't have a strong attachment to Dalinar's past, other than figuring out what it was like to visit the Nightwatcher, and I don't feel that justifies an entire book of flashbacks.  So after that explanation, my list would be as follows:

 

3 - Szeth

4 - Adolin and/or Renarin

5 - Jasnah

 

6 - Lift

7 - Navani

8 - Taln and/or Dalinar

9 - Zahel

10 - The Heralds

[Guest]

Shalash will die or will already have died, and Adolin will have the dustbringer Honorblade. That way she gets her flash backs, he'll be a dustbringer, and someone interesting can have the spotlight for the book

 

Adolin is interesting He should get the Dustbringer's flashback, providing he becomes one

[kadolin]

Shalash will meet her sons and save them from impending doom. Adolin emotions will lead him down the path of a dustbringer!

[Guest]

Shalash will meet her sons and save them from impending doom. Adolin emotions will lead him down the path of a dustbringer!

 

Sweet. Renarin will go and say: "Oh but I already knew she was not really dead: I saw it. Forgot to tell you Adolin. Sorry " Adolin will crumble under the pain of 1) finding his dead mother is not dead, 2) learning she had abandoned them during all these years and will probably say something along the lines of: "I hate you.". 

 

Then Dalinar will arrive: "Who are you?"

[kadolin]

And Navani will be like "Oh great, She's back." Shalash will like Shallan for a daugter-in-law too.

[Guest]

And Navani will be like "Oh great, She's back." Shalash will like Shallan for a daugter-in-law too.

 

Her first words to her son: "How come you are not married YET?". Then she'll turn to Dalinar: "How come he is not married YET?". Then to Renarin: "Don't you look away: you are next".

Edited August 11, 2014 by maxal

[Patrick Star]

I do wonder why Renarin is book 10.

 

Is Brandon going to pull a Sazed on us?

[Guest]

I do wonder why Renarin is book 10.

 

Is Brandon going to pull a Sazed on us?

 

I hope not.

[Dawnshard]

I think Nightblood would be an interesting flashback! So much evil destroyed!

[kaellok he/him]

I do wonder why Renarin is book 10.

 

Is Brandon going to pull a Sazed on us?

I imagine because Renarin can see into the future, having his book sooner may substantially change the way certain other books and story arcs need to be written.  Also, having his book last, with that whole future-seeing bit, could easily create a nice and neat closed-loop of foreshadowing for that book which would also work very well within the overall framework of the back 5 and the front 5--while also setting up for future Cosmere novels.

 

Or maybe he just wants a Kholin to end each arc, and Dalinar already has that spot in the front 5.

[Lumen]

How to fix the pattern... Shalash will become a Dustbringer. Yeah I´m not buying that myself, I just wanted to say something strange.

 

What if Shalash is a "stand-in", because Brandon does not want us to know what is going on with Eshonai.  In other words, Shalash = RAFO at this stage.  It could up being Adolin, or a different Herald, or someone else we have seen.  

[Guest]

What if Shalash is a "stand-in", because Brandon does not want us to know what is going on with Eshonai.  In other words, Shalash = RAFO at this stage.  It could up being Adolin, or a different Herald, or someone else we have seen.  

 

Good point, however I do not feel there is so much mystery revolving around Eshonai... There are many clues (and WoB) indicating she will be our Willshaper, although I agree it is not firm yet and putting a clear Dustbringer flashback would sort of confirmed our speculations.

 

As for Adolin, Brandon has never had plans to do a flashback on him (I do not recall one instance where he mentioned his name as a potential flashback character), which is sad as he currently is one of the four main characters and the only one without a book dedicated to himself. So it's either Brandon intends to put an increasing number of Adolin's POV in other books or he will kill him of in the next book or so.

 

Shalash still does not make sense........ It could mean RAFO or else maybe Brandon wanted to watch us squirm while trying to figure out why he is breaking his Pattern over the Dustbringers.

[hoser he/him]

Good point,...

Shalash still does not make sense........

I'm sure it makes sense.  It is a clue about the story Brandon wants to tell. 

Just guessing here, but I imagine that she works for Herald backstory.  She would have a unique perspective on her father, whose story I am really interested in. 

[kaellok he/him]

 

Shalash still does not make sense........ It could mean RAFO or else maybe Brandon wanted to watch us squirm while trying to figure out why he is breaking his Pattern over the Dustbringers.

While I'm sure that he takes some enjoyment at watching his fanbase squirm (god knows I would), I don't think he would do it for just that reason.  I do have a theory to explain all of this, although it's more of a, "Hey, wouldn't that be kinda cool?" instead of an "I'm sure this is what it is!" (if you know what I mean).

 

The Heralds are granted Surgebinding due to their Honorblades, and not the Nahel Bond.  They are not actually a part of any of the Radiant Knight Orders, because they are not a Radiant.  This leaves open the possibility of one of the Heralds (all of them, really) acting in a way that attracts a spren, and eventually forming a Bond with them.  The Orders are supposedly based around attributes shown by the Heralds, sure, but the Heralds seem to be greatly different now than they were when the Radiants were first forming.  Knowing thousands of years of torture and war, and eventually betrayal, could certainly change a person so that they no longer represent what they once did (assuming that what they originally represented wasn't overly mythologized in and of itself.)

 

There's really no reason to limit which Order a Herald would represent in the future; I mean, sure, it might make sense and be logical for said Herald to represent that Order, but other possibilities are also very easy to see.  If we're going to have a Shallash book, let's see her as an 'ordinary' Radiant of the opposite Order she used to symbolize. 

[Guest]

While I'm sure that he takes some enjoyment at watching his fanbase squirm (god knows I would), I don't think he would do it for just that reason. 

 

Robert Jordan has stated many times how he likes to watch the fans squirmed.................... Maybe Brandon is taking lessons from his mentor   Maybe he is purposely misguiding us

 

 

The Heralds are granted Surgebinding due to their Honorblades, and not the Nahel Bond.  They are not actually a part of any of the Radiant Knight Orders, because they are not a Radiant.  This leaves open the possibility of one of the Heralds (all of them, really) acting in a way that attracts a spren, and eventually forming a Bond with them.  The Orders are supposedly based around attributes shown by the Heralds, sure, but the Heralds seem to be greatly different now than they were when the Radiants were first forming.  Knowing thousands of years of torture and war, and eventually betrayal, could certainly change a person so that they no longer represent what they once did (assuming that what they originally represented wasn't overly mythologized in and of itself.)

 

There's really no reason to limit which Order a Herald would represent in the future; I mean, sure, it might make sense and be logical for said Herald to represent that Order, but other possibilities are also very easy to see.  If we're going to have a Shallash book, let's see her as an 'ordinary' Radiant of the opposite Order she used to symbolize. 

 

It is an interesting theory. I have honestly no arguments to refute it :ph34r: It sounds quite plausible, even if I must admit it does not please me. I guess my discomfort comes mostly from the fact I currently just can't feel any attachment for any of the Herald, even Taln whereas I have grown very attached to our current main crew. I am just bummed to see we are probably going to let go so many characters I enjoy reading about for others I have little interest in

 

I guess it is possible Shalash could go to the other end of the spectrum and become a Dustbringer. This would be completely unexpected, although not so unexpected as Brandon has announced her for a flashback.

 

Or maybe it has something to do with the link on the chart between both orders.... Perhaps they are friend orders? Lightweavers are pretty much alright with outright murder, so does the Dustbringer, as long as it does not break their oaths.... Could it be linked orders are allies? Lightweavers are mostly scholars whereas Dustbringers are mostly warriors. How about if each two orders were paired in a way that scholars complements warriors? With this in mind and knowing most oft he Heralds have just gone mad, then it could be possible some Herald, such as Shalash, ends up taking over more than one order....