Junction, Junction, what's your Function? (Spoilers Galore)

[Mistdork]

I'm sorry for the title, I really am, but it had to be done! After I read this today, I said, hey, lookit the PUN I can make! What better way to talk about questions that sprung up from a cognitive heavy reading than to make reference to something to do with conjunctions...

 

(I'm linking the reading here in case anyone's missed it: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/08/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance )
 
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While I realize that this is not yet quite cannon, I think we can still garner some things from it. According to the above reading, a junction was created when Jasnah did not fully enter the cognitive realm, letting her effectively soulcast but without leaving her stuck. While here she is stuck because her spren (and perhaps him letting her use a ton of Stormlight?) dragged/thrusted her into the Cognitive Realm completely...
 
So, I wanted to ask a few questions (or list my thoughts) related to this, though they're not all related to the Stormlight Archive.

 

1. Spren are Cognitive Entities [CE] (for this it doesn't really matter what type of CE they are, only that they are a CE). So, would it be possible for other cognitive entities with similar bonds to allow/drag/thrust their bondmates to enter into the Cognitive realm? If this is so, then perhaps spren like beings such as Nightblood, Seons, Skaz, etc (freaky birds go here) could offer a similar function and...help create a junction or help bring someone to the realm. It's a different method than "pool hopping", though, I think that something like Honor's permanent junction might still be necessary to get back in (which is probably his pool)...(though, if the Storms show up in some way in the Realm...but are highly dangerous to use due to their massive level of Investiture)

 

(If the above is true about Nightblood, it could possibly explain how Vasher hopped. Also, a large amount of Breath (like enough to reach the Fifth Heightening, I believe) might too, since that is the same amount of Investiture as in one Divine Breath...this is neither here nor there, though.)

 

2. In a realm without giant sized splinters (Scandrial), do you think that perhaps Cognitive Shadows (oh yes, I did) which are also CE (just non-transformative entities) could somehow help in the process? Or, if not, perhaps the process there is created by a junction created by the Mists?

 

3. Should, perhaps, we consider it "junction" hopping (instead of pool) hopping? And do you think that perhaps there's an interesting way to "junction" hop in Elantris? (Like make a junction, go through it, then it closes behind you. Unfortunately, you're now stuck in a really dangerous place filled with cognitive entity monsters and cognitive disasters galore! Errr...never mind, maybe you should just ignore this point!)

 

4. Profit!

 

5. Who hopes that junction is not the right term? (Or who thinks I made a really bad pun in my title? I feel clever, though!)

 

Anyway, I just wanted to talk about it. This is a discussion topic, and while things are not concrete, I think that the reading still gives us some really cool hints about how the realms work!

Edited August 7, 2014 by Nymp

[Argent]

Upvoted for title. 

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The way I think about junctions, they are places in the Cognitive Realm where the physical world is "closer." Areas where, for one reason (a pesky Elsecaller drawing the two realms closer so she can escape death on a ship) or another (Honor sticking his Perpendicularity in other people's business). The classical "point where the worlds are closest."

Edited August 7, 2014 by Argent

[FaeMofo]

I think we're unable to say whether travel would be possible to Sel or back as - last I knew- it was cut off from the rest of the Cosmere somehow, maybe the sequel to Elantris will hold the answers to why Galladon and Raoden managed to reach Roshar.

 

Edit - Spelling mistakes!

Edited August 8, 2014 by Unnamed Narrator

[Argent]

Not cut off, just difficult to get to (and from?). The Cognitive Realm, which seems like the only / most popular way of worldhopping is dangerous there. Very dangerous.

[KiManiak]

I think we're unable to say whether travel would be possible to Sel or back as - last I knew- it was cut off from the rest of the Cosmere somehow, maybe the sequel to Elantris will hold the answers to why Galladon and Raoden managed to reach Roshar.

 

 

 

With the qualification that there is so much information out there (and so many sources) that it's often hard for me to keep track of it all, I don't recall there being any confirmation that Raoden was on Roshar.  Is this WoB?  Can you cite it?

 

Thanks!

[Goatborn]

With the qualification that there is so much information out there (and so many sources) that it's often hard for me to keep track of it all, I don't recall there being any confirmation that Raoden was on Roshar.  Is this WoB?  Can you cite it?

 

Thanks!

 

I've seen a few recent posts saying that Raoden was on Roshar, but I have no idea where this sprung from. One implied that he was the third man in the Purelake interlude of WoK, but that was debunked ages ago by WoB stating that he was from an unpublished work (As far as I recall, anyway).

 

It also wouldn't fit with Worldhopping trends - it never seems to be the main character of a novel that crosses to Roshar. Demoux, Galladon and Vasher are confirmed, but not Spook, Raoden or the princesses of Warbreaker. (I'm upgrading Spook to main character since he had a huge role in Scadrial's history).

 

Back to the main topic, but Honor's Perpendicularity sounds like a Cryptic city to me. If you imagine a 3D structure made up of all right-angles, I think that would be something that Pattern would be interested in or at least find comforting. I also like the idea that cities would crop up around permanent junctions (either due to resources or to keep human/spren interactions in check.)

 

I doubt that Aviar could draw someone to the Cognitive realm, just due to the limited cognition displayed. Seons on the other hand display remarkable intelligence and if they had access to a power source could possibly make the leap. I'm very interested to see how the Shadesmar develops!

[Argent]

Spook is, in my opinion, no more main character than Vasher is, so I think we shouldn't focus on the... mainness of the potential worldhoppers.

 

As for Honor's Perpendicularity, it makes me think of the cross product of two vectors, which is perpendicular to both of them (e.g. the cross product of a vector along the x-axis and a vector along the y-axis would give you a vector along the z-axis). So, if we are going there, it suggests a change of direction, a transcendence of planes - a path away from the Cognitive Realm.

[FaeMofo]

I've seen a few recent posts saying that Raoden was on Roshar, but I have no idea where this sprung from. One implied that he was the third man in the Purelake interlude of WoK, but that was debunked ages ago by WoB stating that he was from an unpublished work (As far as I recall, anyway).

 

 

I didn't realise this had been debunked, i'm sorry guys!

[Zaineph]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post on the forums, but I've been keeping a close eye on you guys for a while now. I recently spent an evening with Brandon when he came to London for his signing and got to ask him a few questions. One might be quite relavant here  (I will try to remember word for word as best I can).

 

I asked: "Is the reason Sel is hard to get to via shadesmar, because that in shadesmar it is all underwater or beacuse of some other geographical reason".

 

Brandon: "Good question, but no. You're on the right lines though"

 

Tbh I'm not closer to figuring it out but you guys might have better luck.

[Argent]

Any other interesting questions and answers you can share with us? There is a London thread somewhere..

[Mistdork]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post on the forums, but I've been keeping a close eye on you guys for a while now. I recently spent an evening with Brandon when he came to London for his signing and got to ask him a few questions. One might be quite relavant here  (I will try to remember word for word as best I can).

 

I asked: "Is the reason Sel is hard to get to via shadesmar, because that in shadesmar it is all underwater or beacuse of some other geographical reason".

 

Brandon: "Good question, but no. You're on the right lines though"

 

Tbh I'm not closer to figuring it out but you guys might have better luck.

 

Hmmm, I was under the impression that the problem with worldhopping from and to Sel was related to whatever caused the Chasm line to appear. The Chasm seems like it could have been a long term result of the Shattering of Devotion and Dominion; an event that probably caused a considerable amount of strain on the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms (and probably still does). The Spiritual and Cognitive strain caused by the Shattering of these Shards would have to be expressed in the Physical Realm, and that's why the Chasm may have eventually appeared. So, yeah, its a geographical relationship, but kind of a backwards from what you were thinking (perhaps, etc, I'd be totally willing to talk about this more in a different topic...).

 

 

Spook is, in my opinion, no more main character than Vasher is, so I think we shouldn't focus on the... mainness of the potential worldhoppers.

 

As for Honor's Perpendicularity, it makes me think of the cross product of two vectors, which is perpendicular to both of them (e.g. the cross product of a vector along the x-axis and a vector along the y-axis would give you a vector along the z-axis). So, if we are going there, it suggests a change of direction, a transcendence of planes - a path away from the Cognitive Realm.

 

Err, my knowledge of Calculus and Linear Algebra doesn't stretch that far, Argent. Could you try a different metaphor? I'm unlikely to understand this topic just with a simple google search...(thanks, btw).

 

Are you suggesting that the Perpendicularity is a place where there's some kind of permanent secondary "vector" (such as the z-axis in your cross product picture) that is formed at this location?

[Curiosity]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post on the forums, but I've been keeping a close eye on you guys for a while now. I recently spent an evening with Brandon when he came to London for his signing and got to ask him a few questions. One might be quite relavant here  (I will try to remember word for word as best I can).

 

I asked: "Is the reason Sel is hard to get to via shadesmar, because that in shadesmar it is all underwater or beacuse of some other geographical reason".

 

Brandon: "Good question, but no. You're on the right lines though"

 

Tbh I'm not closer to figuring it out but you guys might have better luck.

 

Actually, someone asked a really good clarifying question (or series of questions) on this topic right here. It's a really interesting concept to think about!

[Argent]

Err, my knowledge of Calculus and Linear Algebra doesn't stretch that far, Argent. Could you try a different metaphor? I'm unlikely to understand this topic just with a simple google search...(thanks, btw).

 

Are you suggesting that the Perpendicularity is a place where there's some kind of permanent secondary "vector" (such as the z-axis in your cross product picture) that is formed at this location?

 

You don't need to understand the actual math behind it, just the concept. Cross product is one of the two ways of multiplying vectors (the other one being dot-product). One of its effects is that by computing it, you get a vector perpendicular to both of the original ones - so multiple a vector point straight ahead/behind by one pointing straight to the left/right, and you get a vector pointing straight down/up.

[Goatborn]

You don't need to understand the actual math behind it, just the concept. Cross product is one of the two ways of multiplying vectors (the other one being dot-product). One of its effects is that by computing it, you get a vector perpendicular to both of the original ones - so multiple a vector point straight ahead/behind by one pointing straight to the left/right, and you get a vector pointing straight down/up.

 

Argent is a witch!

 

The idea of it functioning as a gateway out of Shadesmar seems obvious within the context of the excerpt, so I'm definitely willing to accept that, and that the name is most likely a reflection of this. However, I came here for rampant speculation and wild errors!

 

So, could the Perpendicularity be Honor's Cognitive corpse? How would a gateway through the Shadesmar correspond to Honor? (Like, why would spren associate this particular area as Honor's? Did Honor, or the honorspren, claim it as their gateway?)

[ProfessorW]

Hmmm...maybe since the Dor is unrestrained around Sel, and is a source of immense power, the area in Shadesmar isn't under water, but under lava....

[Paragrin]

Hmm. One, the impression I got from WoB was that the Dor itself, the unheld power of Devotion and Dominion, without enough Splinters to bleed off to the Physical Realm through like Honor has, stayed in the Cognitive Realm (leading to the danger- lots of uncontrolled, unpredictable power swirling around) and put stress on the Physical Realm (leading to the Chasm).

Two, Vasher and Nightblood coming to Roshar together and /then/ getting separated is way more plausible than them randomly happening to end up on the same planet after Vasher stopped trying to track Nightblood down, which is what I'd kinda been assuming. It does, however, raise the question of how Darkness/Nin/Nalan'Elin- or whoever got him off Vasher first- managed to keep him hidden for years on a single planet. Nightblood is kind of distinctive.

[Argent]

...that the Dor itself, the unheld power of Devotion and Dominion...

 

We don't actually know that the Dor is this. It's a very popular theory that makes a lot of sense, but I can't think of a WoB that confirms it.