Harmonium theory

[Ookla thePresentParticiple]

Mild era 2 spoilers:
For those who don’t know, each shard has a God Metal associated with it (Lerasium, Atium, Raysium, etc.), and Harmony’s God Metal is Harmonium, or Ettmetal. Ettmetal is very hard to experiment with, due to it exploding whenever it comes in contact with water, and its Allomatic, Feruchemical, and Hemalurgical abilities are all unknown. I have no idea what its abilities in Allomancy or Hemalurgy would be, but I think anyone could store something in a Ettmetal metalmind, and storing would have no effect, but tapping would make you a full Feruchemist.

The main reason I think this is how Atium and especially Lerasium work. Those are the god metals of Ruin and Preservation, which both are associated with magic systems, Hemalurgy and Allomancy. When Lerasium is burned (it can be burned by anyone) it turns the burner into a Mistborn, and an Atium spike steals any power, the crux of what Hemalurgy is. In both of those examples, using a God Metal in the Metallic art associated with it makes you able to use all of the more minor powers associated with (doesn’t fit exactly with Hemalurgy). So, I think Ettmetal has the same effect on Feruchemy.

My theory is also somewhat supported by this WoB:

Quote

Drew McCaffrey

Is there are metal that can grant Feruchemy, a la lerasium/Allomancy?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Another RAFO. (Sorry.)

 

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

Mild era 2 spoilers:
For those who don’t know, each shard has a God Metal associated with it (Lerasium, Atium, Raysium, etc.), and Harmony’s God Metal is Harmonium, or Ettmetal. Ettmetal is very hard to experiment with, due to it exploding whenever it comes in contact with water, and its Allomatic, Feruchemical, and Hemalurgical abilities are all unknown. I have no idea what its abilities in Allomancy or Hemalurgy would be, but I think anyone could store something in a Ettmetal metalmind, and storing would have no effect, but tapping would make you a full Feruchemist.

The main reason I think this is how Atium and especially Lerasium work. Those are the god metals of Ruin and Preservation, which both are associated with magic systems, Hemalurgy and Allomancy. When Lerasium is burned (it can be burned by anyone) it turns the burner into a Mistborn, and an Atium spike steals any power, the crux of what Hemalurgy is. In both of those examples, using a God Metal in the Metallic art associated with it makes you able to use all of the more minor powers associated with (doesn’t fit exactly with Hemalurgy). So, I think Ettmetal has the same effect on Feruchemy.

My theory is also somewhat supported by this WoB:

 

That sounds weird, that tapping Harmonium would grant Feruchemy, but your logic fits the pattern. However would it be permanent Feruchemy or would it stop as soon as you stop tapping? Allomancy is granted because Lerasium itself is used to forge a connection between you and Preservation. You need to forge the same connection to both Ruin and Preservation to gain Feruchemy - you need investiture for it. If so, tapping Harmonium should "burn" it as it's used to create that connection. Sounds very weird to me, as that's not how Feruchemy works. I think it's more likely burning it like Lerasium would have a side effect of making you into a Feruchemist. 

Another WoB:

Spoiler

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

But then if Harmonium makes people into Feruchemist, what made the first Feruchemist on Scadrial, when there was no Harmonium?

 

You can "report" the other topic as a double post:

Spoiler

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Hope that helps.

 

[drunkenbotanist]

We know there were allomancers before lerasium, although they were weaker and different.

On 8/23/2023 at 5:31 PM, alder24 said:

That sounds weird, that tapping Harmonium would grant Feruchemy, but your logic fits the pattern. However would it be permanent Feruchemy or would it stop as soon as you stop tapping? Allomancy is granted because Lerasium itself is used to forge a connection between you and Preservation. You need to forge the same connection to both Ruin and Preservation to gain Feruchemy - you need investiture for it. If so, tapping Harmonium should "burn" it as it's used to create that connection. Sounds very weird to me, as that's not how Feruchemy works. I think it's more likely burning it like Lerasium would have a side effect of making you into a Feruchemist. 

Another WoB:

  Hide contents

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

But then if Harmonium makes people into Feruchemist, what made the first Feruchemist on Scadrial, when there was no Harmonium?

 

You can "report" the other topic as a double post:

  Hide contents

At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link, and (your posts only) and Edit link. On the bottom right you will see an up arrow.

• The Up Arrow is how you thank people or "like" a post
• The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is
  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you click that for each post
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
  • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
  • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically
• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote" button that pops up.
• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
• Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
  • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
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• Next to Edit you will also find an "options" dropbox, you can use this to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting
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  • Use this if you do accidentally double-post (sometimes it's the browser or a slow link that causes a double post) - just leave a message that it was an accidental double post and the Mods can fix it. If it was the first post of a new thread that doubled, they usually can merge the threads if they both have answers, so all of the content is retained.

Hope that helps.

 

 

[alder24]

Just now, drunkenbotanist said:

We know there were allomancers before lerasium, although they were weaker and different.

That's different, those were Snapped by Mists when the Well was close to being filled. Feruchemy has no mechanism like that except genetics. We don't know how it started. They still needed that first Connection to jump start the whole population of Feruchemists, just like all modern Mistborn are descendants of the very first Lerasium Mistborn. Something must have created the very first Feruchemist and we don't know what it was, but it must have been limited so that only his descendants - Terrisans - carried those genes.

[LabRat]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

That's different, those were Snapped by Mists when the Well was close to being filled. Feruchemy has no mechanism like that except genetics. We don't know how it started. They still needed that first Connection to jump start the whole population of Feruchemists, just like all modern Mistborn are descendants of the very first Lerasium Mistborn. Something must have created the very first Feruchemist and we don't know what it was, but it must have been limited so that only his descendants - Terrisans - carried those genes.

My personal Headcannon is that the Terris are immigrants to Scadrial, or at least the very very early Terris interacted with an immigrant to Scadrial. What planet/Shard that person/population was associated with we haven't seen yet.

-No full-blood Terris (except LR) have Allomancy, even when the mists started Snapping everyone in sight they were completely immune

-Allomancy "genes" appear to interfere with Feruchemy

-The Terris had (have?) unique prophecies of an unknown source. If Preservation 1.0 had given them, the Power would remember and Harmony would know, Stormlight 4 Spoilers

Spoiler

similar to how Odium 2.0 remembers the plans/agreements of Odium 1.0

There's a few other points I'm not remembering ATM, but those are the major ones

Edited August 26 by LabRat

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, LabRat said:

My personal Headcannon is that the Terris are immigrants to Scadrial, or at least the very very early Terris interacted with an immigrant to Scadrial. What planet/Shard that person/population was associated with we haven't seen yet.

-No full-blood Terris (except LR) have Allomancy, even when the mists started Snapping everyone in sight they were completely immune

-Allomancy "genes" appear to interfere with Feruchemy

-The Terris had (have?) unique prophecies of an unknown source. If Preservation 1.0 had given them, the Power would remember and Harmony would know. There's a few other points I'm not remembering ATM, but those are the major ones

I don't think so. Allomancy comes only from Preservation, but Feruchemy comes from both Ruin and Preservation. We know Scadrians were created by both Ruin and Preservation together, I have no doubts that Terrisans were created by them as well (their religion basically confirmed this). Allomancy genes interfere with Feruchemy, and no Terrisan was snapped, because those powers both partially come from the same place in the spirit web - Preservation's fragment. But Feruchemy probably needs something more, probably a connection to Ruin as well. 

If Preservation gave those people Feruchemy, then why didn't he give it equally to all Scadrians? Why only a certain nation have them, which remained isolated for maybe even 11000 years? That doesn't make any sense. That's why I don't think Preservation was involved (Ruin would likely not allow Preservation to do that, they both would have to grant Feruchemy in the moment of creation). I think the most probable explanation is that one of the previous Hero of Ages used the power of the Well to grant him and his "friends" Feruchemy - and those people later formed the Terris nation. Because the power had to be used for something, and the holder of the power would get an intuitive understanding of all metallic arts. If the power of the Well was not used then at some point someone must have found a way to use god metals to grant Feruchemy to himself. 

The big part is that EVERY Scadrian has the Seed for Allomancy and Feruchemy - even those placed on the south pole by Rashek, who never had those powers, had them and have potential for becoming a Metalborn. That seed is Preservation's fragment.

Terris prophecies came from Preservation but were changed by Ruin over time. The source is known to us. And we don't know what Harmony knows. He very likely knows the origins of those powers.

Spoiler

Questioner

With Allomancy is of Preservation, and you have Hemalurgy, which is of Ruin. Is Feruchemy a joint effort between the two? Or is it a third party?

Brandon Sanderson

Joint effort.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Comatose

So here's my last question. If there ARE people on the other side of the world, did Vin kill them all by placing the sun on their side, or do they have they're own Ruin/Preservation battle going on over there as well? Do they also have allomancy feruchemy and hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they're not dead. Yes, Rashek was aware of them. In fact, he placed them there as a reserve. I knew he wanted a 'control' group of people in case his changes to genetics ended with the race being in serious trouble. All I'll say is that he found a way other than changing them genetically to help them survive in the world he created. And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them—though without anyone among them having burned Lerasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

defiantburrito

The Hero of Ages prophecy: For a while it seemed to me that the prophecy was entirely bogus (invented by Ruin as a lure), but it ended up coming true! So my question is, where did the prophecy actually come from? Was it Atium in some form, or something else entirely?

Brandon Sanderson

The religions of Scadrial had a lot of ups and downs. First, you have Ruin and Preservation working together as two gods. Then you have the schism between them, and Preservation betraying Ruin, with Preservation adapting the religion to his own needs and trying to hide in it practices that will keep Ruin imprisoned as long as possible, and then give a chance to defeat him when he escapes. (As Preservation assumes he'll be dead by then.) Finally, you have Ruin corrupting the religions with his influence, trying to figure out what he can twist to his own needs--while missing the hidden layers that Preservation left.

Phantine

Were there a lot of Hero of Ages who ascended beyond the ones we directly saw in the books?

Brandon Sanderson

I wouldn't say so.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 6, 2015)

 

 

19 minutes ago, LabRat said:

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

similar to how Odium 2.0 remembers the plans/agreements of Odium 1.0

This, you need to delete this. This is a Mistborn forum only, spoilers outside of Mistborn are not allowed here outside of the spoiler box.

[MistbornMathematician]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:31 PM, alder24 said:

Another WoB:

  Hide contents

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

But then if Harmonium makes people into Feruchemist, what made the first Feruchemist on Scadrial, when there was no Harmonium?

I have always assumed that WoB meant that there was a way with exclusively Atium and Lerasium to get Feruchemy. Given this:

Spoiler

Stormlightning

If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018)

I have always taken it to mean that the primary effect of burning Lerasium was investing yourself with the invested art(s) of the other invested metals the Lerasium is alloyed with. Without another metal involved, it gives Preservation's invested art. As Hemalurgy is not, in fact, a true "invested art", I've always assumed that the opposing natures of Ruin and Preservation would create a new invested art, that being Feruchemy. 

As part of that, I have been keeping note of invested arts (and variations thereof) in an attempt to confirm that each shard has precisely 16 invested arts available, which are generally associated with each other and may appear by themselves, in pairs, or as a whole. Given the control that shards have over their invested arts, it seems likely to me that not all of these 16 "slots" are necessarily filled, or at least that not all 16 flavors are represented in the Cosmere. When using Lerasium, you can "attune" the entirety of one art with a god metal alloy, or any one of the 16 with an alloy with a god metal-base metal alloy. This would mean that if you made a Trellium-Lerasium alloy, I believe burning it would grant you all sixteen of Bavad's invested arts, potentially including those that would be entirely unknown (as per my theory that she is essentially composed of 16 autonomous Bavadins, each of which is capable of becoming a proper avatar when given a receptacle and being the foundation of an invested art) since she is still able to create avatars and thus doesn't have all 16 out and about yet. I really ought to make a full post about this idea, honestly.  

I haven't the faintest idea what would happen if you made an alloy with Lerasium and two other god metals but maybe it'd just make you explode or something. 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, MistbornMathematician said:

I have always assumed that WoB meant that there was a way with exclusively Atium and Lerasium to get Feruchemy. Given this:

The WoB is from 2020, we knew Harmonium for years back then.  Brandon saying "god metals" could include Harmonium. But I do agree that Lerasium alloyed with Atium is likely a way, or part of it, to get Feruchemy. 

10 hours ago, MistbornMathematician said:

I have always taken it to mean that the primary effect of burning Lerasium was investing yourself with the invested art(s) of the other invested metals the Lerasium is alloyed with. Without another metal involved, it gives Preservation's invested art. As Hemalurgy is not, in fact, a true "invested art", I've always assumed that the opposing natures of Ruin and Preservation would create a new invested art, that being Feruchemy. 

Hemalurgy is an invested art of Ruin, confirmed by many WoBs and books. Feruchemy is a balance system derived from interactions of pollary opposed Shards.

10 hours ago, MistbornMathematician said:

Given the control that shards have over their invested arts,

What control? Little to no? Shards don't control their invested arts that much, invested arts naturally leak into Physical Realm and Shards have no control over that. Invested arts appear because of interaction between Shards and planets they inhabit. 

[MistbornMathematician]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Hemalurgy is an invested art of Ruin, confirmed by many WoBs and books. Feruchemy is a balance system derived from interactions of pollary opposed Shards.

Metalic Art, yes. Invested art, no. The vast majority of WoBs very carefully seem to avoid calling Hemalurgy an invested art, in fact. Certainly Hemalurgy is an art, but it is definitely not an invested one. 

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

What control? Little to no? Shards don't control their invested arts that much, invested arts naturally leak into Physical Realm and Shards have no control over that. Invested arts appear because of interaction between Shards and planets they inhabit. 

As I said in my other reply, we have seen Preservation, Harmony, and Honor directly and significantly change their invested art at will. They may not be able to stop their art from showing up on a planet where they have considerable influence, or if they can they haven't done so thus far that we've seen, but they most certainly have a lot of of control over how their invested arts work.

[alder24]

22 minutes ago, MistbornMathematician said:

Metalic Art, yes. Invested art, no. The vast majority of WoBs very carefully seem to avoid calling Hemalurgy an invested art, in fact. Certainly Hemalurgy is an art, but it is definitely not an invested one. 

It is. Metallic Arts are 3 invested arts, which are also called manifestations of Investiture, from Scadrial. 

26 minutes ago, MistbornMathematician said:

As I said in my other reply, we have seen Preservation, Harmony, and Honor directly and significantly change their invested art at will. They may not be able to stop their art from showing up on a planet where they have considerable influence, or if they can they haven't done so thus far that we've seen, but they most certainly have a lot of of control over how their invested arts work.

They have limited control. Manifestations of investiture are like forces of nature - you can't control them, you can only influence them. That's what Shards are doing.

[MistbornMathematician]

14 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It is. Metallic Arts are 3 invested arts, which are also called manifestations of Investiture, from Scadrial.

If Hemalurgy is an invested art, then so is making fabrials, attuning your Connection to a planet, using a Perpendicularity, or any other supernatural thing which can be accomplished with no Investiture and no Connection to any Shard. I mean, it directly lacks the "invested" part of "invested art". Quite literally anyone can make a Hemalurgic spike, as long as they Intend to do so.

22 minutes ago, alder24 said:

They have limited control. Manifestations of investiture are like forces of nature - you can't control them, you can only influence them. That's what Shards are doing.

They might not be able to significantly change the fundamentals, but they can most certainly change the rules and limit areas. Perhaps Preservation couldn't have removed the metals from Allomancy, and it's doubtful that he could have changed Seeking to only be able to detect Surgebinding, but he could and did move metals around and adjust how Snapping worked. Hell, Honor created the entire system of oaths for Surgebinding. That is a drastic change from the invested art anarchy that went on before he decided to put some limitations on it.

[alder24]

20 minutes ago, MistbornMathematician said:

If Hemalurgy is an invested art, then so is making fabrials

Brandon calls it magic.

Spoiler

Questioner

How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archive, and how many of them haven't been seen?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

21 minutes ago, MistbornMathematician said:

If Hemalurgy is an invested art, then so is making fabrials, attuning your Connection to a planet, using a Perpendicularity, or any other supernatural thing which can be accomplished with no Investiture and no Connection to any Shard. I mean, it directly lacks the "invested" part of "invested art". Quite literally anyone can make a Hemalurgic spike, as long as they Intend to do so.

It requires investiture - souls. Without souls there is no Hemalurgy. Souls are investiture. With Hemalurgy you're literally cutting off part of somebody's investiture and placing it in your soul, connecting yourself to Ruin.

23 minutes ago, MistbornMathematician said:

They might not be able to significantly change the fundamentals, but they can most certainly change the rules and limit areas. Perhaps Preservation couldn't have removed the metals from Allomancy, and it's doubtful that he could have changed Seeking to only be able to detect Surgebinding, but he could and did move metals around and adjust how Snapping worked

Allomantic tables are human constructs, not Shardic. Preservation didn't move metals around, Atium Mistings were Electrum Mistings.

24 minutes ago, MistbornMathematician said:

Spoiler

Hell, Honor created the entire system of oaths for Surgebinding. That is a drastic change from the invested art anarchy that went on before he decided to put some limitations on it.

 

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

Ishar did it, not Honor. Ishar created Radiants and Oaths. Honor binded Surges to make them weaker but this is now gone. 

 

[MistbornMathematician]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Brandon calls it magic.

All invested arts are magic, not all magic is invested arts. But this is getting a bit off topic from the harmonium theory, so we should probably continue exclusively in the other thread.