Firesong she/her Posted August 12, 2023 Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) Roshar: Spoiler Main Number: 10 10: Spoiler 10 Silver Kingdoms 10 Heralds 10 Orders of the Knights Radiant 10 True Spren 10 Surges 10 Alethi Princedoms Base-10 Numeral System 10 Gas Giants 10 Essences 10 Polestones 10 Floors of Urithiru 10 Oathgates 10 Rings section of Urithiru The Contest of Champions is 10 days after the end of RoW 10 Cities inhabited by Listeners around the Shattered Plains Listeners are considered adults at 10 Vorinism considers the Last Desolation to have been the Hundredth Desolation (false, but I felt it was worth noting), which is a multiple of ten 10 Months in a year 10 Weeks in a month (therefore 100 weeks in a year) 10 heartbeats to summon a Shardblade Epigraph for Chapter 1 was a Death Rattle from ten seconds before death 10 Platespren 10 Gems on an Emotion Bracelet 10 Honorspren were created by Stormfather as the first generation after Recreance 10 Nahn and 10 Dahn stratifying Vorin society 10 Highstorms (accurately) predicted by the Diagram to come before the True Desolation 10 Fools 10 Deaths “Ten spears go to battle," he whispered, "and nine shatter..." Babatharnam is 10 letters long (Th is one letter in Rosharan scripts) 10-part symmetry of Akinah 10 names of the Almighty Cusicesh's faces cycle for 10 minutes 10 days pay for Kaladin to afford a bottle of anti-septic. (SA1-17) The mound in the centre of Vorin temples is 10 feet tall 10 members of the King's Guard protecting Elhokar (SA1-18) 10 Soldiers talked to by Sadeas and called by Dalinar for questioning (SA1-28) This Epigraph: Quote Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above." Meta: Spoiler 10 Books in the series 3: Spoiler 3 Planets in the Habitable Zone (Ashyn, Roshar, and Braize) 3 Moons around Roshar 3 Seas in the Subastral (Regret, Souls, Lost Lights) 3 visible Expanses (likely coincidence, they had to block one to put the Shadesmar lable and still look good) 3 Shards inhabiting the system 3 people touched directly by Cultivation (Dalinar, Lift, and Taravangian) 3 Bondsmith Spren 3 powers per Radiant (two surges and a resonance, which can be reflected in the Bondsmith Spren being 2 single-shard Splinters and 1 fusion between both Shards) 3 known migrations (Ashynites, Sleepless, and Iriali) 3 Surviving Dawnate languages (Unkalaki, Shin, and Listener) The First Ideal is 3 collections of 3 words, which are also made up of 3 lines, which are further made of 9 glyphs Tebel is repeated 3 times in the First Ideal 3 Sphere gemstone measurements (Chip, Mark, Broam) 3 Nexuses in Shadesmar Singers are able to sing songs by the age of 3 Singers have 3 colours (black, red, and white) 3 Gemstones that make up a Soulcaster 2 rings and a bracelet (so 3 parts) that also make up a Soulcaster Due to having 3 gems, a Soulcaster has 3 "modes" In the Double Eye of the Almighty, each Order is shown to be connected to 3 other Orders The Glyphs Phonemes are separated into 3 sets (Standard, Calligraphic, and Hybrid)* Bridge Crews get paid the 3rd day of the week Windrunners have 3 types of Lashings (Full, Basic, and Reverse), and they can (seemingly) only do 3 Basic Lashings at a time The Tritonic Scale 3 Groups of Magic Systems (?) Ba-Ado-Mishram's name is made up of 3 parts In the Roshar essay Khriss mentions Roshar is the name of three things Quote Roshar (which--characteristic of the dominant confidence of its people--is the name of a planet, a system, and the main continent on the planet) Shallan is 3 people (herself and 2 alters), and is called The One Who is Three by the Sleepless The Big Three characters, Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar Shin Kak Nish is 3 words long, each with 3 letters (remember, Sh is 1 letter in Rosharan scripts) Shin names are made up of three parts (name - son/daughter - father) 3-way symmetry of Kholinar Lirin and Hesina have 3 children We are shown 3 stages of evoltuion for the Zeras glyph The map that shows Nohadon's Stairways shows 3 pillars Ghostblood symbol is made up of three interlocking triangles (technically Scadrial, but still fits here) 3 colours of strata in the stone Tien showed Kaladin (SA1-16) 3 Realms in Vorinism (Damnation, Tranquiline Halls, and the Mortal World) 3 types of antiseptic offered to Kaladin by the apothecary (SA1-17) Out of the 4 marks Kaladin used to pay the apothecary, 3 were dun (SA1-17) Hoid got 3 letters from 3 Shards in Oathbringer "Three Gods, Heb" (SA1-19) [very interesting, seems they had some level of respect for all three Shards at this point] Sja-Anat is shown as having 3 heads in art. First Epigraph in SA1, "The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes." The man who said "Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die!" was a father of three. (SA1-58) Dalinar and Gavilar had an important conversation three days before his assassination where Gavilar implied a lot about what was going on with himself. (SA1-26) Three Unmade present during the Siege of Kholinar (Sja-Anat, Ashertmarn, and Yelig-nar) Kaladin, Teft, and Rock spent 3 days trying to collect knobweed sap to use and sell. (SA1-27) 3 men injured in the bridge run (Leyten, Dabbid, and Hopper) Dalinar courted Evi for three years before marriage (SA1-28) Sigzil was imprisoned three times in Babatharnam. Dalinar has been touched by three Shards (Odium through the Thrill and him attempting to make him Champion, Honor through his bond to the Stormfather; and Cultivation through him going to get the Old Magic, and being met by, and granted a boon and bane by, Cultivation herself.) 3 figures from the 17th Shard are sent to find Hoid (SA1-I-1) Hoid mentioned 3 scholars he asked once about what is of most worth (Vessels, obviously, Virtuosity, Invention, and the 16th Shard's Vessel) [SA1-EP] Meta: Spoiler 3 sets of Interludes in Book 1, 3 per set, and 3 in total about Szeth Book 1-Chapter 62: Three Glyphs The Parts have a Glyph behind the title, and they have 3 different Glyphs in total, The symbol depicting a change in viewpoint is three dots Note: Spoiler * This actually fits with the Stormfather and Nightwatcher, Splinters of two separate Shards, and the Sibling, which is a hybrid of the two. 4: Spoiler Each Surge has 4 connections on the Surgebinding Chart (one to each adjacent surge, and one to each Order that can make use of it) 4 Expanses in Shadesmar Getting a Shardblade brings you to the 4th Dahn Bridge Four is where a lot of protagonists found themselves at 4 fabrial nodes in Urithiru Kaladin's Four Lifetimes Now there are four whom we watch: (Book 1 Sleepless writing) 4-way symmetry of Thaylen City Kabsal listed 4 Dawncities in his research into cymatics. 4-way symmetry of the Shattered Plains Cusicesh has four arms Cusicesh shows up at 7:46 Kaladin used 4 marks to pay the apothecary (SA1-17) 4 singer genders 4 new Shards introduced in the RoW letter Both Enlightened True Spren we have seen have had 4 letter names, Glys and Tumi (maybe due to Sja-Anat likely being associated with Vev (I went into why on other threads, I have a lot of reasons to think this), thus those touched by her essence take on a reflection of four?) 4 traditional spikes in Alethi hairdos (Paperback-Page 520) Meta: Spoiler Four capstones on each Chapter Arch. 5: Spoiler 5 Male Heralds and 5 Female Heralds (this is actually called out directly, SA1-18) 5 Heralds closer to Honor and 5 closer to Cultivation 5 Ideals 5 Known Language Families (Makabaki, Vorin, Iri, Dawnate, and Aimian) 5 days in a week 5 different Sphere value groupings (prime pair, middle weight, less weight, cheapest, highest) 5 Bridgemen per row 5 Leaders of the Listeners The Women's script is separated into 5 groups (vowels, T Set, S Set, P Set, K Set) of 5 letters each The Glyph Phonemes are likely separated in the same way, as they have the same number of symbols representing the same phonemes Bridge Crew workers get paid 5 chips a week Each of the moons of Roshar has 5 letters (remember, sh is one), Roshar itself is also only 5 letters Aimia is 5 letters long Thalath is 5 letters long Rishir is 5 letters long 5 Known Veden Princedoms prior to the Civil War 5 children of the Davar Household 3 of the 5 children have 5 letters in their name, Davar also has five letters in its name Zeras, meaning storm (very important concept on Roshar), is 5 letters long Rasan (Alethi name for Rayse), Rayse, Odium, Honor, and Morom (Alethi for Honor) are all five letters 5 diamond marks to a Garnet (SA1-17) Of the 10 Essences, you have 5 aspects associated with each number (on the shown table, we have been told a few times there are more on an expanded table, in-world there are most likely 10 or more) Each Order on the Surgebinding Chart is connected to an Order 5 away from itself (1-6, 2-7, 3-8, 4-9, 5-10), making for 5 groupings If you split the Surgebinding chart vertically down the middle, there are 5 surges on each side Average darkeyed soldier salary is 5 clearmarks a day The Kholin Fifth Battalion is present and focused on during a chapter (SA1-28) Dalinar has five spanreeds set up in his tent (SA1-28) Isshik searched for Hoid for five months before giving up. (SA1-I-1) Meta: Spoiler Each book is separated into 5 Parts Each Era is 5 books 6: Spoiler Axehounds and Whitespines have six limbs (maybe fain connection?) Chulls have six legs (again, fain?) Lurgs have six legs as well (once again, 6 legs) Santhids have six fins The Nightmare Essence in the Starfalls Vision has 6 legs (SA1-19) Valhav is 6 letters long 6 part symmetry of Vedenar (hmmm... 6 part symmetry in the Dawncity of Valhav, which has 6 letters... curious) The Alethi name for Tanavast is Tavast, which is 6 letters Cusicesh shows up at 7:46 The Diagram predicted there would be 6 major factions in the Veden Civil War The 6th Dahn is the lowest ranking of land-owning Lighteyes 6 Light combinations (Storm, Life, Void, War, Tower, and Life + Void) 8: Spoiler Unkalaki are 8 letters long (feels intentional, as they include Kalak in their name, who is associated with 8) This is made relevant as well by Koravari (Alethi name for Koravellium), is also 8 letters long, and they live by her Perpendicularity "During this time, the larkin were given eight Soulcasters as an offering, though it is unclear as to why." 9: Spoiler 9 Unmade 9 Shadows of Odium's Champion 9 Leaders of the Fused 9 Brands of Fused 9 Fused Surges The Tashikki worship Tashi and the Nine, seeing the nine Heralds that aren't Ishar as their own group apart from him. One Herald was killed, leaving there to be Nine Heralds currently The First Ideal is nine words and 9 glyphs long Nine Heralds abandoned the Oathpact The Herald left behind on Braize is Taln, who is associated with 9 9 races of True Spren (the 3 Bondsmith spren are their own unique thing) “Ten spears go to battle," he whispered, "and nine shatter..." Makabakam is 9 letters long Sela Tales is 9 letters long Shin Kak Nish is 9 letters long Natanatan is 9 letters long (seriously, why so many Silver Kingdoms with 9 letter names, memories of serving Odium?) Hanavanar is 9 letters long, died in the month of Tanat (9), and was killed in Interlude-9 (fitting, as his death was ordered by Taravangian, who eventually became Odium, in order to put Jah Keved in a situation where they would join Odium in the coming Desolation) The Alethi names for Lights, Zeradoreh, Koradaros, and Rasodonar are all 9 letters long 9 Honorblades held by the Shin 9 colours of wine (technically 8, but the circle is split into 9 parts, that is what I mean) 9 boys confronting Kaladin (SA1-16) 9 Herald Statues were present on the day of Gavilar's assassination (Shalash destroyed hers) "Sign of the Nine" " He felt a strange dislocation, as if he’d allowed himself to forget—if only in part—the last nine months." (SA1-11) Everstorm orbits around Roshar every 9 days (SA3-35) Meta: Spoiler 9 Interludes in Book 1 2: Spoiler Double Eye of the Almighty The Knights Radiant are basically split into two groups of five Bane and Boon from the Old Magic Honor and Cultivation are the main 2 Shards of Roshar The way they classify life into Plants and Animals (while rather accurate, the way that the Alethi think of it is more as a fundamental dualism) Two Surges per Order Two Oathgate Spren per Oathgate A two-way dualistic view upon gender and gender norms in Vorinism 2 Glyphpairs to make up the names of Highprinces and Princedom Districts Each Glyph is essentially 2 of the same Glyph reflected alongside a vertical axis. Separation of people into Lighteyes and Darkeyes. The focus on the dualism between Physical and Cognitive Realms Focus on the (perceived) dualism between Singers and Humans The First Ideal is basically speaking of sets of opposite ideas (Life/Death, Strength/Weakness, Journey/Destination) 2 Divine Attributes of each Herald Meta: Spoiler The books will be split into 2 Eras. Each prologue has a 2 word name 7: Spoiler The Unkalaki live across seven primary peaks (See, Pact of the Seven Peaks) Seven known ranks of major operational units in the Alethi military chain of command (Subsquad, squad, platoon, company, battalion, division, army) Seven factions in the Veden Civil War (which had quite a bit of attention brought to it as it contradicted the Diagram) Alethela, Alethkar, and Avendla are 7 letters long Nohadon is also 7 letters long Kaladin and Heleran are also 7 letters long (A lot of connections between Alethkar, Vedenar, and the number 7) Cusicesh shows up at 7:46 The lighteyed corpse found on the first chasm duty was of the 7th dahn (SA1-27) 12: Spoiler The Thaylens have a base-12 number system. 12 True Spren if you count each of the Bondsmith Spren The Starfalls Vision (the first we see), is the 12th Dalinar had (SA1-19) 16: Spoiler The number of bodies in the Rosharan system if you include the moons. (3 moons, 3 telluric planets, 10 gas giants) Alethi surgeons tend not to take apprentices until they are 16 (Book 1 - Chapter 16) The epigraph "I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw." was stated by a 16 year old (SA1-57) The epigraphs ""Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us."" (SA1-56) and "That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices." (SA1-66) were said 16 seconds before death. 20: Spoiler 20 Bridge Crews 20 Hours in a day 20 Oathgates 30: Spoiler 30 Magic Systems Taldain: Spoiler Main Number: 7 7: Spoiler 7 ranks of Lak 7 ranks in the Diem 7 sandlings listed in the Ars Arcanum The Eye of Ridos pulses and sends out Investiture once every seven days The Ars Arcanum on Sand Recharging shows 7 states of charge Bavadin has a 7 letter name The Taisha are made up of a High X (not their name, just using X to stand for any Profession leader, as it changes) who rules over the other seven Profession leaders. Thus it is essentially a council of 7 under one leader. 9: Quote 9 Taisha if you count the Lord Beggar 90 minutes to a dayside hour Meta: Spoiler Calling this meta as it is the most vague and stretchy. 90*15 = 1350, whose digital root is 9 15: Spoiler 15 hours in a Dayside Day (so 15 hours per rotation of the moon) The minimum amount of ribbons to be a Mastrell is 15 Nalthis: Spoiler Main Number: 5 3: Spoiler Three planets in the system 4: Spoiler Four Types of BioChromatic Host in Vasher's Model 5: Spoiler 5 Scholars Divine Breath brings one up to the 5th Heightening Tears of Edgli have 5 petals 5 Visions Lightsong returned 5 years before Warbreaker. There were 25 (5x5) gods in the court during Warbreaker Susebron is the 5th God King Nightblood's blade is around 5 feet (60 inches) Various heightenings are multiples of 5 and 10 (50, 5000, 50000) Vahr started the rebellion 5 years ago Misc. Spoiler 5 Lifeless in the alleyway 5 lemons juggled by Lightsong 5 tassels in Vasher's sleeve 5 brothers and sisters of Jewels 10: Spoiler 10 recognized levels of Heightening 10 bodies orbiting the star if you count the moons Komashi: Spoiler Main Number: 13 13: Spoiler 13 Nations Hijo are most active every 13th year 13 appears prominently in several rituals 2: Spoiler 2 Hion Lines Hijo split into 2 different parts when made into fabrials The Dichotomy between Torio and Nagadan (more thematic than something actually part of the world) The Connection between Yumi and Nikaro (2 people) causing them to keep swapping 16: Spoiler 16 Yoki-hijo at max at one time Scadrial: Spoiler Main Number: 16 16: Spoiler 16 metals 16 types of Misting and Ferring Base-16 Numeral System (in a way, this makes these all into 10s, and makes 256 into 100) 16 showing up a bunch when Preservation tried to reveal himself Rashek originally made 16 Inquisitors Pretty sure Vin was 16 in The Final Empire, at least by the start The number of days it took the Lord Ruler to reach the Well of Ascension The number of Precepts in each Canton charter Wax was Sixteenth High Lord of House Ladrian The Ladrian mansion is at Sixteen Ladrian Place Wayne shot a person when he was 16 16 bodies orbiting the sun, including dwarf planets and moons 8: Spoiler Elendel is seperated into 8 Octants 8 Base (non-alloy) Metals Path Sanctuaries have 8 large doorways to let in the mists 7: Spoiler Seven Ashmounts Iron Seven Waystation (mentioned in Yumi, I am pretty convinced that it is a Scadrian Waystation due to the name) 2: Spoiler 2 Shards inhabiting the system 2 Orbits of Scadrial Path Sanctuaries have only two chairs Harmony is thought of as the embodiment of 2 contradictory attributes (while true, they do expand this to a far more abstract idea, thinking of him as embodying both sides in all sorts of dualities (and things only perceived as dualities))* Note: Spoiler * “Not really. Wow, you blush easily, don’t you? I’d have thought you’d find this natural, considering that your God is basically a hermaphrodite at this point. Both good and evil, Ruin and Preservation, light and dark, male and female. Et cetera et cetera.” - Shadows of Self 3: Spoiler 3 real (not-dwarf) planets in the system 3 manifestations of Metallic Arts 4: Spoiler Allomantic and Feruchemical metals are separated into 4 quadrants of 4 metals. Meta: Spoiler Four Books in the Wax and Wayne Tetralogy Currently planned at Four Eras in total (might change to five) 5: Spoiler Five planets in the system including dwarf planets Five South Scadrian nations that joined the Malwish Consortium (so everyone but the Maskless) 10: Spoiler The Path is symbolized by 10 interlocking rings Sel: Spoiler Main Number: 3 (?) 2: Spoiler Sel was inhabited by 2 Shards Shu-Keseg is seperated into two opposing sects, Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth Aonic names are typically made up of 2 parts 3: Spoiler 3 continents 3 main empires 3 parts of the Aon Aon (two lines and a dot) All Aons are 3 letters long (those that don't are ones with sh, which is just one symbol in many languages, including in other cosmere scripts, so still 3 letters, essentially, but closer to phonemes, I guess) Dor is also 3 letters long 3 gangs in Elantris Hrathen was given 3 months to convert Arelon Elantris is 3 syllables Meta: Spoiler 3 books in the series Elantris (the book) circles in a cycle of 3 central viewpoints. Note: 3's manifestations in language I feel are especially important as they talked about how influential the Shards were in the development of their languages. 4: Spoiler 4 cities around Elantris Both Vessels have 4 letter names (Aona and Skai) 5: Spoiler 5 Arbiters per faction in the Rose Empire 80: Spoiler 80 suns in the Rose Empire's theology 80 Factions making up the Rose Empire's government Lumar: Spoiler Main Number: 12 12: Spoiler 12 Seas 12 Moons 5: Spoiler Each Sea abuts 5 other seas Each sea is a pentagon (so, 5 sides) 3: Spoiler Each vertex connects 3 seas. Drominad: Spoiler 7: Spoiler 7 planets in the system (makes sense, as Autonomy inhabits it) 3: Spoiler 3 planets in the system are inhabited 4: Spoiler 4 planets before the asteroid belt Threnody: Spoiler 3: Spoiler Three Simple Rules Three of the four planets are named after songs of mourning 4: Spoiler Four planets in the system 6: Spoiler Six celestial bodies in total, including the sun and Coronach (maybe connection to Uli Da being Fain, and thus connected to 6) Cosmere-Wide: Spoiler 16: Spoiler 16 Shards 16 Vessels 16 Metals 12: Spoiler 12 Aethers 4: Spoiler 4 Dawnshards 4 Groups of 4 Shards (Which WoB indicates is rather signifigant) 4 Realms (if you count the Beyond) 3: Spoiler 3 Realms Will be extending this over time, I am just trying to find a bunch of different instances of important numbers showing up. (I plan to ask this to get moved to general Cosmere discussion once the rule against Yumi content outside of here ends). This is what I was able to think of off the top of my head, it would help if people can give more examples in the responses to help expand this. Edited September 5, 2023 by Firesong 7
ʟɪɢʜʈ Posted August 12, 2023 Posted August 12, 2023 These are interesting. What about nine orders of fused, and nine Unmade?
Firesong she/her Posted August 12, 2023 Author Posted August 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said: These are interesting. What about nine orders of fused, and nine Unmade? Yeah, I'll add the Fused.
alder24 Posted August 12, 2023 Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Firesong said: Roshar: 10 Fools? And I think it was also mentioned somewhere that a dozen is 10 on Roshar. Calendar is also based on the number 10 - 10 months with 10 weeks each, with 5 days each. 500 days per year. The Weeping is also 4 weeks long with the middle day being either sunny day or Highstorm - so it's both 10 days apart the beginning and end. Rosharan year is also only 10% longer than standard (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Roshar#Calendar). And what about 9? Spoiler King of Herdaz In the Stormlight books, the number ten is thematically and culturally very important. In The Way of Kings Prime, the word "tenset" is commonly used to refer to ten of something. So, when Rosharans in the published Stormlight books talk about "a dozen" of something, do they mean twelve? Or do they mean ten? Brandon Sanderson It's a great question. I've been using "tens" more often in Stormlight, because I've found that people will go with it. One of the problems I felt with Way of Kings Prime was that the worldbuilding, the learning curve was too steep. So when I wrote Way of Kings the new version, I scaled back a little on that. We mentioned weeks, but we don't talk about about the fact that on Roshar, a week is five days, right? We talk about hours, but we don't go into the length of time a day is. It gets all wibbly-wobbly, shall we say. And my explanation of this is: these are all in translation. The translator (who is me) who is interpreting it, most of the time, when they say "tens," I will write "a dozen," or something like that. But not always. Now, I am edging toward more "tens," because in-world they would use "tens." Peter is okay with this. Karen's like, "Eh, it makes continuity a little wonky." But I feel like, having gone as long as we have, people are okay dealing with more of that, so I'm leaning that direction. But understand, I am the translator presenting this to you. Pretend that, when Wit says something that's a pun in their language, I am finding a pun in English that is similar and writing it out, because he's not actually saying what the book is having him say. But this is all just something you have to put in to imagine to keep that sense of immersion for you. And whichever one works to help you. But, yeah, they would be using "tens." They'd say "tens of" this, instead of "dozens," more often. YouTube Livestream 13 (July 23, 2020) 1 hour ago, Firesong said: Nalthis: Hide contents 5: Hide contents 5 Scholars Divine Breath brings one up to the 5th Heightening Tears of Edgli have 5 petals (look at the photo in the WoB and likely finalized design on https://coppermind.net/wiki/Tears_of_Edgli): Spoiler Paleo (paraphrased) What symbol will be on the Warbreaker leatherbound? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He referred us to Isaac, who showed us several designs which are not finalized, but they are confirmed as Tears of Edgli. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) There are 2x5 Heightenings as well, but this isn't a direct connection. Also there were 5x5 gods in the court during Warbreaker. and 5x10000 is the 10th Heightening. The Idris religion also has something called 5 visions that the first Returned To received. Lightsong returned 5 years before Warbreaker. Siri owned 5 dresses in Idris (not a rule however). There were 5 god-kings including Susebron but not Peacegiver. Nightblood is 5ft long. Because of the characters we're talking about I think those things would be because of Fortune (the length of Nightblood is comfortable for Returned to wield, so it's even more connected). There was also lots of random repetition of the number 5 - like 5 Lifeless in the alleyway, 5 lemons juggled by Lightsong, 5 tassels in Vasher's sleeve, 5 brothers and sisters of Jewels, Vahr starting rebellion 5 years ago and so on. Random but number 5 is repeated constantly (I say Fortune!) 1 hour ago, Firesong said: Komashi: There were 13 Yuki-Hijo other than Yumi. Wasn't there also 13 days in a week? I remember that weeks are longer there (27 days is only over 2 weeks - said in ch 27). Lumar has a thing for 12 - 12 moons, Aethers, spores, seas etc. But no Shard is there. Edit: I didn't see the amount of 3 on Roshar. Could it be Cultivation's number? Nice one. Edited August 12, 2023 by alder24 1
Firesong she/her Posted August 12, 2023 Author Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, alder24 said: 10 Fools? And I think it was also mentioned somewhere that a dozen is 10 on Roshar. Calendar is also based on the number 10 - 10 months with 10 weeks each, with 5 days each. 500 days per year. The Weeping is also 4 weeks long with the middle day being either sunny day or Highstorm - so it's both 10 days apart the beginning and end. Rosharan year is also only 10% longer than standard (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Roshar#Calendar). And what about 9? Reveal hidden contents King of Herdaz In the Stormlight books, the number ten is thematically and culturally very important. In The Way of Kings Prime, the word "tenset" is commonly used to refer to ten of something. So, when Rosharans in the published Stormlight books talk about "a dozen" of something, do they mean twelve? Or do they mean ten? Brandon Sanderson It's a great question. I've been using "tens" more often in Stormlight, because I've found that people will go with it. One of the problems I felt with Way of Kings Prime was that the worldbuilding, the learning curve was too steep. So when I wrote Way of Kings the new version, I scaled back a little on that. We mentioned weeks, but we don't talk about about the fact that on Roshar, a week is five days, right? We talk about hours, but we don't go into the length of time a day is. It gets all wibbly-wobbly, shall we say. And my explanation of this is: these are all in translation. The translator (who is me) who is interpreting it, most of the time, when they say "tens," I will write "a dozen," or something like that. But not always. Now, I am edging toward more "tens," because in-world they would use "tens." Peter is okay with this. Karen's like, "Eh, it makes continuity a little wonky." But I feel like, having gone as long as we have, people are okay dealing with more of that, so I'm leaning that direction. But understand, I am the translator presenting this to you. Pretend that, when Wit says something that's a pun in their language, I am finding a pun in English that is similar and writing it out, because he's not actually saying what the book is having him say. But this is all just something you have to put in to imagine to keep that sense of immersion for you. And whichever one works to help you. But, yeah, they would be using "tens." They'd say "tens of" this, instead of "dozens," more often. YouTube Livestream 13 (July 23, 2020) Tears of Edgli have 5 petals (look at the photo in the WoB and likely finalized design on https://coppermind.net/wiki/Tears_of_Edgli): Reveal hidden contents Paleo (paraphrased) What symbol will be on the Warbreaker leatherbound? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He referred us to Isaac, who showed us several designs which are not finalized, but they are confirmed as Tears of Edgli. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) There are 2x5 Heightenings as well, but this isn't a direct connection. Also there were 5x5 gods in the court during Warbreaker. and 5x10000 is the 10th Heightening. The Idris religion also has something called 5 visions that the first Returned To received. Lightsong returned 5 years before Warbreaker. Siri owned 5 dresses in Idris (not a rule however). There were 5 god-kings including Susebron but not Peacegiver. Nightblood is 5ft long. Because of the characters we're talking about I think those things would be because of Fortune (the length of Nightblood is comfortable for Returned to wield, so it's even more connected). There was also lots of random repetition of the number 5 - like 5 Lifeless in the alleyway, 5 lemons juggled by Lightsong, 5 tassels in Vasher's sleeve, 5 brothers and sisters of Jewels, Vahr starting rebellion 5 years ago and so on. Random but number 5 is repeated constantly (I say Fortune!) There were 13 Yuki-Hijo other than Yumi. Wasn't there also 13 days in a week? I remember that weeks are longer there (27 days is only over 2 weeks - said in ch 27). Lumar has a thing for 12 - 12 moons, Aethers, spores, seas etc. But no Shard is there. Yup, I edited it to include the 9s. and thanks for the added info on 5s, I knew there were a lot more. And Lumar is more Aethers in general. I am also adding Scadrial and 16 soon.
alder24 Posted August 12, 2023 Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Firesong said: Yup, I edited it to include the 9s. I see now. 9 Heralds abandoned the Oathpact leaving 9 Honorblades behind. Edit: @Firesong 10 Honorspren were created by Stormfather as the first generation after Recreance. Edited August 12, 2023 by alder24 1
Firesong she/her Posted August 12, 2023 Author Posted August 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, alder24 said: I see now. 9 Heralds abandoned the Oathpact leaving 9 Honorblades behind. Thanks, I didn't think of that, added. I also added a quick thing for Scadrial. 1
alder24 Posted August 12, 2023 Posted August 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Firesong said: Pretty sure Vin was 16 in The Final Empire, at least by the start Checked it, that's true. More: Quote "Sixteen is a powerful number, Venture," Yomen said, looking over some reports. "It was the number of days it took the Lord Ruler to reach the Well of Ascension, for instance. It figures prominently in Church doctrine." [...] "The number of original Inquisitors," Yomen said. "The number of Precepts in each Canton charter. The number of Allomantic metals. The—" Potentially there could be 16 beads of Lerasium at the Well: Spoiler SageOfTheWise Is there a reason why Rashek left a nugget of Lerasium at the Well of Ascension? Brandon Sanderson He left several. It was, in his opinion, one of the best kept secrets and best protected locations in his empire. Phantine Were there originally 16 of them? Brandon Sanderson An excellent guess. /r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 11, 2015) Wax was Sixteenth High Lord of House Ladrian which I bet isn't a coincidence. He's Harmony's Sword after all. And Wax's mansion is at Sixteen Ladrian Place. Wayne shot a person when he was 16. Those are only from the AoL. Now that I'm searching through books for numbers, there is surprisingly a lot of repetition of those specific numbers, which I didn't catch earlier. Interesting. I feel a lot like some conspiracy theorist searching for every weird repetition of some number. Most are rather random so they shouldn't matter. 1
Firesong she/her Posted August 12, 2023 Author Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) Have added Sel to the list Added Lumar, Drominad, and Threnody Edited August 13, 2023 by Firesong 1
alder24 Posted August 13, 2023 Posted August 13, 2023 11 hours ago, Firesong said: Have added Sel to the list Added Lumar, Drominad, and Threnody That's a lot of work. Looks really good. 15 hours ago, Firesong said: Bridge Four is where a lot of protagonists found themselves at While this shouldn't change anything, Bridge Four was this number just because, it looks this isn't significant: Spoiler Questioner 1 Why the number four, for Bridge Four? Is there a reason for...? Brandon Sanderson Nope, it just is what appealed to me. There is no greater significance, other than I wanted to do it, and it just felt right. Questioner 2 We always wondered if it was because it's like bad luck in Asia. Brandon Sanderson It is bad luck, but I didn't pick it for that reason specifically. FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021) Spoiler Questioner How did the name Bridge Four [come about]? Brandon Sanderson So, I stole Bridge Four (there's an interesting story to it)... Dragonsteel was my seventh novel, and it's Hoid's origin story, and it takes place... the series is Hoid's origin story, though that book doesn't really get into it. We have a few viewpoints from him, but it's not really about him. And the idea was, I was gonna kind of lead into this epic fantasy, and then start talking about this mysterious character who was a big part of it. And the main character I decided to lead in with that was this person who got stuck in a bridge crew. It's not Kaladin, it's a very different character, but the idea of the bridge crews. Well, eventually, I took Dalinar out of... even before I was writing Dragonsteel, I pulled him out, set him for a different book. And eventually it became clear to me that I needed to pull the bridge crews out and move them to Roshar because they just worked better. I had this great idea for these bridge crews, but the world they're in just didn't match. And the chasms and things matched very well. So I moved them out and made them a part of Kaladin's story. What I'm getting at is, I came up with the bridge crews, like, twenty years ago, and I have no idea why I picked four, other than... I have no idea. Bridge Four has been Bridge Four to me for years. In fact, if you read Dragonsteel, you can still find Rock in Bridge Four from twenty years ago, acting kind of the same. And a few of the other characters are still there, as well. Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015) 15 hours ago, Firesong said: Lightsong returned 5 years before Warbreaker. There were 25 (5x5) gods in the court during Warbreaker Lightsong returned 5 years before Warbreaker You've repeated it twice. I think 5 god-kings is significant, as Susebron won't retire anytime soon. 1
Firesong she/her Posted August 13, 2023 Author Posted August 13, 2023 3 hours ago, alder24 said: That's a lot of work. Looks really good. While this shouldn't change anything, Bridge Four was this number just because, it looks this isn't significant: Hide contents Questioner 1 Why the number four, for Bridge Four? Is there a reason for...? Brandon Sanderson Nope, it just is what appealed to me. There is no greater significance, other than I wanted to do it, and it just felt right. Questioner 2 We always wondered if it was because it's like bad luck in Asia. Brandon Sanderson It is bad luck, but I didn't pick it for that reason specifically. FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021) Reveal hidden contents Questioner How did the name Bridge Four [come about]? Brandon Sanderson So, I stole Bridge Four (there's an interesting story to it)... Dragonsteel was my seventh novel, and it's Hoid's origin story, and it takes place... the series is Hoid's origin story, though that book doesn't really get into it. We have a few viewpoints from him, but it's not really about him. And the idea was, I was gonna kind of lead into this epic fantasy, and then start talking about this mysterious character who was a big part of it. And the main character I decided to lead in with that was this person who got stuck in a bridge crew. It's not Kaladin, it's a very different character, but the idea of the bridge crews. Well, eventually, I took Dalinar out of... even before I was writing Dragonsteel, I pulled him out, set him for a different book. And eventually it became clear to me that I needed to pull the bridge crews out and move them to Roshar because they just worked better. I had this great idea for these bridge crews, but the world they're in just didn't match. And the chasms and things matched very well. So I moved them out and made them a part of Kaladin's story. What I'm getting at is, I came up with the bridge crews, like, twenty years ago, and I have no idea why I picked four, other than... I have no idea. Bridge Four has been Bridge Four to me for years. In fact, if you read Dragonsteel, you can still find Rock in Bridge Four from twenty years ago, acting kind of the same. And a few of the other characters are still there, as well. Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015) You've repeated it twice. I think 5 god-kings is significant, as Susebron won't retire anytime soon. Ah, my bad, didn't recognize it was repeated.
Lego Mistborn he/him Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 Spoiler Welllllll, seeing as Ado created everything originally on Roshar, I daresay there is a fain connection to chulls and stuff. ^ Roshar 1
alder24 Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 (edited) I see you've added a lot of stuff. On 12.08.2023 at 10:13 PM, Firesong said: 3: Spoiler 3 Groups of Magic Systems (?) 30: Hide contents 30 Magic Systems What is a magic system? Spoiler Crspu Is there going to be a magic system for every Shard? Brandon Sanderson Uh, yes, whether there'll be books? We get into a problem here... is... what is a magic system, right? So for instance like, would you count all of Surgebinding as one magic system, or is it ten magic systems, right? Is Windrunning a separate magic system from Skybreaking. Right, and is it the Surges? Is it that? What do you call a magic system? Is the system of fabrials a magic system, or is it a subset of what's happening on Roshar? And in that case, it's like I delineated it pretty strongly in Mistborn, but in Stormlight, it's like... kind of Surgebinding is kind of Honor and Cultivation, right? And so is there a magic system for each of them or not? So the answer is yes and no, in that every one of the Shards will inspire really interesting magic systems. But is there a one to one? What do you call a magic system? And beyond that, will I have time to write books about all of these, I don't know. You could even look at Sel. Sel has how many magic systems, is it one? Is it lots? Is Forging a different magic system from AonDor, or is it two aspects of the same magic system and so... It's tricky. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) Depending on how you count magic systems, you can have Surgebinding, Voidbinding, Lifebinding, Old Magic, Fabrials = 5. Or every binding has 10 own systems (WIndrunners etc), that's 32 (16x2). Or you can count Fused separately from Surgebinding, or even Honorblades separately, that +19=51. Or every Surge separately - but when does it end? If you count Windrunning as a separate magic system, then why not Coinshoting? Why not count every Misting, Ferring or Twinborn as a separate magic system - they are no different than Windrunners which you count separately. I personally count Surgebinding + Voidbinding + Lifebinding + Old Magic = 4 magic systems, with Fabrials being technology, not magic. But I think it's reasonable to have up to 7 systems, based on Scadrial and its 3 systems, one being a mix between Shards, I expect the same will happen on Roshar, and that's a 3 way Venn Diagram. But I have no idea which magics correspond to which Shards, it's hard to do that classification with Roshar. On 12.08.2023 at 10:13 PM, Firesong said: 5 Heralds closer to Honor and 5 closer to Cultivation How do we know that? On 12.08.2023 at 10:13 PM, Firesong said: 5 Known Veden Princedoms prior to the Civil War I don't get this. There is 10 Veden Princedoms, just like in Alethkar. On 12.08.2023 at 10:13 PM, Firesong said: 10-part symmetry of Akinah 3-way symmetry of Kholinar 4-way symmetry of Thaylen City 4-way symmetry of the Shattered Plains 6 part symmetry of Vedenar (hmmm... 6 part symmetry in the Dawncity of Valhav, which has 6 letters... curious) I feel that's important. Based on that it may be possible to assign Downcities and Silver Kingdom to numbers and to Heralds. However 4 times symmetry repeating 2 times is weird, couldn't one of them be 2 or 8 times symmetry? On 12.08.2023 at 10:13 PM, Firesong said: 20 Bridge Crews 40 in WoK, 20 in WoR, coppermind: Quote The bridgemen were split into 40 bridge crews, each carrying one bridge.[4] Each bridge crew was comprised of approximately 35-40 men. Edit: Heavenly Ones are organized in Flights, which have 18 members each (2x9) (RoW ch 5 "Three flights would mean fifty-four members.") Edited August 15, 2023 by alder24 1
Firesong she/her Posted August 15, 2023 Author Posted August 15, 2023 2 hours ago, alder24 said: I see you've added a lot of stuff. What is a magic system? Reveal hidden contents Crspu Is there going to be a magic system for every Shard? Brandon Sanderson Uh, yes, whether there'll be books? We get into a problem here... is... what is a magic system, right? So for instance like, would you count all of Surgebinding as one magic system, or is it ten magic systems, right? Is Windrunning a separate magic system from Skybreaking. Right, and is it the Surges? Is it that? What do you call a magic system? Is the system of fabrials a magic system, or is it a subset of what's happening on Roshar? And in that case, it's like I delineated it pretty strongly in Mistborn, but in Stormlight, it's like... kind of Surgebinding is kind of Honor and Cultivation, right? And so is there a magic system for each of them or not? So the answer is yes and no, in that every one of the Shards will inspire really interesting magic systems. But is there a one to one? What do you call a magic system? And beyond that, will I have time to write books about all of these, I don't know. You could even look at Sel. Sel has how many magic systems, is it one? Is it lots? Is Forging a different magic system from AonDor, or is it two aspects of the same magic system and so... It's tricky. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) Depending on how you count magic systems, you can have Surgebinding, Voidbinding, Lifebinding, Old Magic, Fabrials = 5. Or every binding has 10 own systems (WIndrunners etc), that's 32 (16x2). Or you can count Fused separately from Surgebinding, or even Honorblades separately, that +19=51. Or every Surge separately - but when does it end? If you count Windrunning as a separate magic system, then why not Coinshoting? Why not count every Misting, Ferring or Twinborn as a separate magic system - they are no different than Windrunners which you count separately. I personally count Surgebinding + Voidbinding + Lifebinding + Old Magic = 4 magic systems, with Fabrials being technology, not magic. But I think it's reasonable to have up to 7 systems, based on Scadrial and its 3 systems, one being a mix between Shards, I expect the same will happen on Roshar, and that's a 3 way Venn Diagram. But I have no idea which magics correspond to which Shards, it's hard to do that classification with Roshar. How do we know that? I don't get this. There is 10 Veden Princedoms, just like in Alethkar. I feel that's important. Based on that it may be possible to assign Downcities and Silver Kingdom to numbers and to Heralds. However 4 times symmetry repeating 2 times is weird, couldn't one of them be 2 or 8 times symmetry? 40 in WoK, 20 in WoR, coppermind: Edit: Heavenly Ones are organized in Flights, which have 18 members each (2x9) (RoW ch 5 "Three flights would mean fifty-four members.") Sadeas has 20 Bridge Crews, I am reading WoK right now and it says 20 repeatedly. I say 30 as Brandon has called it 30 repeatedly when describing it. And I did say known, as in, the ones we know the names of. As there most likely is still 10, yeah, given it is implied to have the same origins. 1
alder24 Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Firesong said: Sadeas has 20 Bridge Crews, I am reading WoK right now and it says 20 repeatedly. I think that was because 20 crews were on duty each day, and they switched every day with other 20 crews or something like that. I'm sure there was 40 crew in Sades camp and they were switching. There is definitely more than 20 crews, as in RoW ch 2 there were nearly a thousand bridgemen saved (1000/20 crew is 50 men per crew - crews were 20-40 men, not 50). Quote Kaladin led the three past barrack after barrack, doing a quick count. Nearly a thousand men, and though he’d told them yesterday that they were now free—and could return to their old lives if they wished—few seemed to want to do anything but sit. Though there had originally been forty bridge crews, many had been slaughtered during the latest assault and others had already been short-manned. WoK ch 6: Quote There were some forty or fty bridges lined up here. Perhaps one for each barrack, making one crew for each bridge? About twenty bridge crews were gathering at this point. WoK ch 65/66: Quote “Come with me,” Sadeas said. “Let us assault them together! A single grand wave of attack, across forty bridges!” And he had a full forty bridges to retreat across 7 minutes ago, Firesong said: I say 30 as Brandon has called it 30 repeatedly when describing it. What do you personally count in those 30? Brandon repeatedly says that it's hard to put a number to it as it depends on what you count as a magic system. 9 minutes ago, Firesong said: And I did say known, as in, the ones we know the names of. As there most likely is still 10, yeah, given it is implied to have the same origins. Yeah but that for me is random, meta data, not in-world appearance of number 5. It's 10.
Firesong she/her Posted August 15, 2023 Author Posted August 15, 2023 6 hours ago, alder24 said: I think that was because 20 crews were on duty each day, and they switched every day with other 20 crews or something like that. I'm sure there was 40 crew in Sades camp and they were switching. There is definitely more than 20 crews, as in RoW ch 2 there were nearly a thousand bridgemen saved (1000/20 crew is 50 men per crew - crews were 20-40 men, not 50). WoK ch 6: WoK ch 65/66: What do you personally count in those 30? Brandon repeatedly says that it's hard to put a number to it as it depends on what you count as a magic system. Yeah but that for me is random, meta data, not in-world appearance of number 5. It's 10. Yeah, true, thanks. And on that last thing, yeah, that is also true.
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