Loveable Characters you actually don't care about....

[Edgedancer]

Shai

Seconded.

In Shai´s case her attitude about her forging, as in replacing works of art with fakes not the magic, irks me. It´s not that she is a criminal, I for example really liked te lies of Locke Lamora, although, that doesn´t help either. No It´s how she just completly disregards the rights and feelings of other people for her own egotism and portrays it all as fair sport. The fact that no one in the story can properly rebute her makes it even worse.

 

Oh, and in my opinion essence marks might be the most disturbing thing Brandon ever wrote.

The part where she stamped herself downright horrified me.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Edgedancer

[Kurkistan]

@Swimmingly/Maxal

 

Darest thee challenge my supreme knowledge!!!??!?!

 

(But seriously, even counting RAFO's he's really not referenced in most of them. This is helped by the fact that a large number of the WoB's we have (especially from transcriptions and the like) are from questions asked by the non-cosmere-literati. And even a lot of Sharders don't usually focus on him: I've asked over a dozen questions and not one about Hoid.)

Edited July 29, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Reiyeka]

Haven’t really discovered much discussion on Navani, but I don’t particularly love her character. Yeah, she’s a hot mama and I can understand how she dealt with her grief over Jasnah. Her work with fabrials is very cool. The renewed romance between her and Dalinar is pretty adorable. But there’s just something about her. Maybe I’m hung up on her playing the two Kholin bros back in the day, I’m not sure. Dalinar has also gotten more meh for me, it could be because of being more involved with Navani, but I’m more forgiving with Dalinar.

I didn’t care for Adolin in WoK, but he really turned around for me in WoR. He got some grit and became much more interesting.

I am a fan of Renarin and I will admit that its probably (most likely…definitely ) because he fits my “type,” haha. Quiet, wears glasses, means well, seems pretty sweet and good natured. He’s pretty much in the background of the story so far, so that makes him a little mysterious. But that’s just me.

Also, not too crazy many of the interlude characters, excepting maybe Tarvangian and Eshonai. Lift is only kind of awesome, still awesome, but not all caps AWESOME.

 

*runs, pours sand over summoning circle on way out*

[maxal]

Haven’t really discovered much discussion on Navani, but I don’t particularly love her character. Yeah, she’s a hot mama and I can understand how she dealt with her grief over Jasnah. Her work with fabrials is very cool. The renewed romance between her and Dalinar is pretty adorable. But there’s just something about her. Maybe I’m hung up on her playing the two Kholin bros back in the day, I’m not sure. Dalinar has also gotten more meh for me, it could be because of being more involved with Navani, but I’m more forgiving with Dalinar.

 

I think you are the first poster I meet who does not like Navani and Dalinar  Shame on you

[Shaggai]

Seconded.

In Shai´s case her attitude about her forging, as in replacing works of art with fakes not the magic, irks me. It´s not that she is a criminal, I for example really liked te lies of Locke Lamora, although, that doesn´t help either. No It´s how she just completly disregards the rights and feelings of other people for her own egotism and portrays it all as fair sport. The fact that no one in the story can properly rebute her makes it even worse.

 

Oh, and in my opinion essence marks might be the most disturbing thing Brandon ever wrote.

The part where she stamped herself downright horrified me.

Really, though, if nobody can tell the difference, is there anything wrong with what Shai does? The emotional content of the art is the same, and she derives private satisfaction from it. It doesn't harm anyone, and it gives Shai pleasure. Overall, the average quality of life actually goes up, in fact.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Shaggai

[Edgedancer]

Really, though, if nobody can tell the difference, is there anything wrong with what Shai does? The emotional content of the art is the same, and she derives private satisfaction from it. It doesn't harm anyone, and it gives Shai pleasure. Overall, the average quality of life actually goes up, in fact.

The fact that she doesn´t get caught isn´t a proper reason to declare if she is doing the right thing or not. The idea that you can lie to people as much as you want and keep them ignorant if it´s for "the better" is actually disturbing, because it takes away agency from the person it is being done to. Sure, Shai is doing it on a small scale but wrong is still wrong. Storms, it is even worse for the original artists, by Shai´s mindset a big reason of her art being good, something that she takes pride in, is how they get admired and I think it is safe to assume that other artists feel the same, so every time she does her little act she undermines the confidence of her victims. Even wose if her work ever gets discovered, which is a possibility, no matter how good Shai is.

 

Yes, I can see how someone can make the "no harm done" arguement and I know that lies aren´t necessarily bad but in Shai´s case combined with her attitude, it´s just something I´m personally opposed to.

[Reiyeka]

I think you are the first poster I meet who does not like Navani and Dalinar  Shame on you

Ahh! I know, for shame!!!! I do like them together, though. I like how happy Navani makes Dalinar. They deserve that. It’s more about Navani for me. I was very suspicious of her when she was introduced and during the woo-ing phase. By the end of WoR, I was like “fine, she is a good person and doesn’t seeeeem to have bad intentions,” but I also had this sinking feeling that all the good is going to turn to heartbreak later on. Then I start getting suspicious again. I hope my gut is wrong about Navani, but we shall see!

[maxal]

Ahh! I know, for shame!!!! I do like them together, though. I like how happy Navani makes Dalinar. They deserve that. It’s more about Navani for me. I was very suspicious of her when she was introduced and during the woo-ing phase. By the end of WoR, I was like “fine, she is a good person and doesn’t seeeeem to have bad intentions,” but I also had this sinking feeling that all the good is going to turn to heartbreak later on. Then I start getting suspicious again. I hope my gut is wrong about Navani, but we shall see!

 

This is interesting as you are the first poster I have read to express doubt as to Navani's intentions...

 

She seemed to care a lot for Dalinar, her children and her nephews.  Adolin, in particular, was quite affectionate with her. He liked having her fret over him saying it was almost like having his mother back... She was also very sweet with Renarin when he asked questions about her new fabrials. Dalinar obviously has repressed feelings about her.... She was saddened by Jasnah's death and she was worried about her son, even if she was able to admit her son was a temperamental wimp

 

Why is it you think she is fishy? What is it you find suspicious?

[AerionBFII]

I too was suspicious at first, i totally get the gut feeling bu ti can't explain it.

Until i saw her POV in WOR that was funny. My best Navani scene was in WOK where Dalinar is talking to Jasnah via spanreed where Jasnah was like;

 

“‘Send my mother my respect. Keep her at arm’s length, Uncle. She bites.’”

From the side, Navani sniffed, and Dalinar realized he hadn’t signaled that Navani was actually listening. He blushed as Danlan continued speaking.

[Reiyeka]

This is interesting as you are the first poster I have read to express doubt as to Navani's intentions...

 

She seemed to care a lot for Dalinar, her children and her nephews.  Adolin, in particular, was quite affectionate with her. He liked having her fret over him saying it was almost like having his mother back... She was also very sweet with Renarin when he asked questions about her new fabrials. Dalinar obviously has repressed feelings about her.... She was saddened by Jasnah's death and she was worried about her son, even if she was able to admit her son was a temperamental wimp

 

Why is it you think she is fishy? What is it you find suspicious?

Yes, I totally agree with you on all points! I know its a little irrational and I am trying my best to explain a gut reaction. Please bear with me as logic may not apply…

Mind you, I don’t have an issue with her now being with her husband’s brother, he’s been dead for a long time and she can do whatever she wants. And she does, and it’s great! Screw Alethi culture and its taboos. It’s a nice twist and adds extra tension.

Perhaps it doesn’t need to be explained or I am filling in the blanks incorrectly, but I want to know more about her marriage to Gavilar and what things were like before he died. I get the feeling there’s some secret we don’t know about. It very well could be good secret (protecting Gavilar/family) and I’m assuming the worst. Navani’s so nice on paper but what happened in her past? Is the worst thing she did toying with two brothers’ hearts when they were all different people back then? She certainly doesn’t need to have some dark past, I just…wonder if she’s hiding something. Maybe she is just a good wife and mother and I’ll feel bad I ever doubted her!  

But to quote the great David Hasselhoff, “I can’t stop this feelin’ deep inside of me…”

[maxal]

Yes, I totally agree with you on all points! I know its a little irrational and I am trying my best to explain a gut reaction. Please bear with me as logic may not apply…

Mind you, I don’t have an issue with her now being with her husband’s brother, he’s been dead for a long time and she can do whatever she wants. And she does, and it’s great! Screw Alethi culture and its taboos. It’s a nice twist and adds extra tension.

Perhaps it doesn’t need to be explained or I am filling in the blanks incorrectly, but I want to know more about her marriage to Gavilar and what things were like before he died. I get the feeling there’s some secret we don’t know about. It very well could be good secret (protecting Gavilar/family) and I’m assuming the worst. Navani’s so nice on paper but what happened in her past? Is the worst thing she did toying with two brothers’ hearts when they were all different people back then? She certainly doesn’t need to have some dark past, I just…wonder if she’s hiding something. Maybe she is just a good wife and mother and I’ll feel bad I ever doubted her! 

 

I agree there is something fishy about her weeding to Galivar, but my money is on Galivar not being politically correct and not Navani, if you know what I mean We have clues her marriage was not a happy one and she did mentioned she did not grieve overly after Galivar's death. I too feel the Kohlin family as a whole may have a few hidden skeletons we do not know about.

 

These are very reasonable feelings as I have the same myself. However, I tend to blame Galivar and not Navani for this   I did not feel she was toying with two brothers' hearts, I felt she chose to marry a man she did not love because the one she did love was a dangerous blood thirsty warlord at the time. It scared her away. She has admitted to being jealous of shshshshshshshsh, but not being able to hold it against her as she was such a nice person it was impossible not to like her. She did call her stupid though She mentioned she was calm and did complement Dalinar best.

 

But to quote the great David Hasselhoff, “I can’t stop this feelin’ deep inside of me…”

 

I have never thought I would someday see someone quote David Hasselhoff You make my day

[Reiyeka]

These are very reasonable feelings as I have the same myself. However, I tend to blame Galivar and not Navani for this   I did not feel she was toying with two brothers' hearts, I felt she chose to marry a man she did not love because the one she did love was a dangerous blood thirsty warlord at the time. It scared her away. She has admitted to being jealous of shshshshshshshsh, but not being able to hold it against her as she was such a nice person it was impossible not to like her. She did call her stupid though She mentioned she was calm and did complement Dalinar best.

Aha, this is really comforting me on the Navani front. You are probably right that it’s likely Gavilar at the root of my suspicions of Navani. I’ll agree on the choice Navani had to make between the two of them. From Dalinar’s perspective it might have felt like she was toying with him then, but he’s seeing things differently now that things have changed.

 

 

 I have never thought I would someday see someone quote David Hasselhoff You make my day

There is always a time and a place for the Hoff. I’m hooked on a feeling…high on believing (your side of things bwhahaha)

[Shaggai]

The fact that she doesn´t get caught isn´t a proper reason to declare if she is doing the right thing or not. The idea that you can lie to people as much as you want and keep them ignorant if it´s for "the better" is actually disturbing, because it takes away agency from the person it is being done to. Sure, Shai is doing it on a small scale but wrong is still wrong. Storms, it is even worse for the original artists, by Shai´s mindset a big reason of her art being good, something that she takes pride in, is how they get admired and I think it is safe to assume that other artists feel the same, so every time she does her little act she undermines the confidence of her victims. Even wose if her work ever gets discovered, which is a possibility, no matter how good Shai is.

 

Yes, I can see how someone can make the "no harm done" arguement and I know that lies aren´t necessarily bad but in Shai´s case combined with her attitude, it´s just something I´m personally opposed to.

Generally, lying to people for good reasons is a bad idea. The thing is, in this case the lies are the same as the truths, so there's no problem. It doesn't affect the confidence of the artists, because they don't know anything about it.

[Edgedancer]

Generally, lying to people for good reasons is a bad idea. The thing is, in this case the lies are the same as the truths, so there's no problem. It doesn't affect the confidence of the artists, because they don't know anything about it.

I see where you are coming from but there two problems in this justification. One is the very assumption that Shai will never get caught. Yes, she is excellent but everyone can mess up and, if I remember correctly, she does add "improvements" to the pictures, so no the lies are not the same as the truths.

 

I´ll admid that she isn´t doing some devlish evil thing that makes her an irredimable bad person and maybe I should empathise that while her actions are in my opinion questionable at best it is really more her smug aditude about it, that I don´t like.

[Delightful]

Eshonai is the most prominent character who comes to mind. The first few chapters of Parshendi viewpoint are cool because they're Parshendi, bit I guess I just don't relate much to Eshonai. I'm certainly not desperately hoping for her redemption in book 3 (in presuming she's still alive, though I care for plot reasons, not character reasons), and I have trouble making myself read her interludes. The only moment I really felt bad/sympathy for her was when her mother thought she was her sister, and said something like "that's girl is useless" and Eshonai says "yeah but I'm trying" (don't remember the exact quote and don't have my book on me. Hopefully you know what I'm taking about).

Also Dalinar in WoR got on my nerves for some reason I can't quite articulate. I'm glad he got less page time than in WoK.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Delightful

[Turanga Leela]

I found myself not giving a crap about Vivenna until 2/3 of the way through Warbreaker, when she finally snapped and became an interesting character. I still never cared about Blushweaver, who's supposed to be this intelligent, conniving, and sexy goddess. Every time I came to either of their parts, I would groan and sludge through them. (Much like Roran's lengthy chapters in CP's Eldest, anyone?)

 

I agree with whoever said that the characters in Elantris are hard to care about as well. Some of the time they were pretty good. But other times, I would just wish their parts would be over with.

 

But I really loved all of the Mistborn characters.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Turanga Leela

[missionaryofgod]

That have to be Taravangian. But he is not a lovable character so then I have to say Wit or Jasnah.

[maxal]

That have to be Taravangian. But he is not a lovable character so then I have to say Wit or Jasnah.

 

There are people who like Taravangian

[Marmota]

I guess Lift. I never got how ppl love her so much after just 1 chapter. ANd i think the whole awesomeness stuff pretty lame.

I dont lean much towards Kaladin as well

[AerionBFII]

Lift.. im sure she will be fun to read in the future.. but at the time she was getting on my nerves. 

 

Wit never bores me at all.

 

Adolin never understood what the fuss is about.. he seems like a douche.

 

STICK!!!!!!! I HOPE HE GETS EATEN BY A CHULL!!! DIGESTED THEN LEFT IN A CHULL LITTER BOX FOR THE REST OF  STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE!!

[maxal]

Adolin never understood what the fuss is about.. he seems like a douche.

 

But he has layers

[Link Start]

But he has layers

 So does every ogre.

[maxal]

 So does every ogre.

 

LOL. Gave you an upvote.

[sun tzaro]

Contrary to some of the opinions here, I think Renarin will become one of the more interesting characters in the SA.

 

Renarin is a Truthwatcher. Truthwatchers see the future, and judging from Renarin's behavior when Shallan was opening the Oathgate, Renarin has seen some really disturbing things.

 

Vorinism despises prophecy and foretelling the future. Have you ever wondered just why Renarin refuses all urging to join the ardentia?

 

Renarin was already a shadow in the Kholin family. Adolin talks about he makes women nervous. Where Dalinar and Adolin are leaders and warriors, Renarin is a scholar and a weakling. 

 

He has a spren that no one else can see, and he sees visions of death and destruction (presumably) that no one else can see. 

The society he has been raised in will hate and mistrust him. Kaladin has left for Hearthstone, and Shallan appears to strongly dislike Renarin. That leaves only his father as a Radiant he can turn to, and Dalinar is almost certainly preoccupied with a billion other things. 

 

 

 

Now, as the Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, their order being formed entirely of those who never spoke or wrote of what they did, in this lies frustration for those who would see their exceeding secrecy from the outside; they were not naturally inclined to explanation; and in the case of Corberon's disagreements, their silence was not a sign of exceeding abundance of disdain, but rather an exceeding abundance of tact.

 

 

Renarin, who already is an outcast in Alethkar society, is going to be experiencing one of Vorinism's greatest taboos with pretty much no guidance whatsoever. 

 

For the next few books, to be Renarin is to suffer. Which is interesting. 

[Savanorn]

Contrary to some of the opinions here, I think Renarin will become one of the more interesting characters in the SA.

 

Renarin is a Truthwatcher. Truthwatchers see the future, and judging from Renarin's behavior when Shallan was opening the Oathgate, Renarin has seen some really disturbing things.

 

Vorinism despises prophecy and foretelling the future. Have you ever wondered just why Renarin refuses all urging to join the ardentia?

 

Renarin was already a shadow in the Kholin family. Adolin talks about he makes women nervous. Where Dalinar and Adolin are leaders and warriors, Renarin is a scholar and a weakling. 

 

He has a spren that no one else can see, and he sees visions of death and destruction (presumably) that no one else can see. 

The society he has been raised in will hate and mistrust him. Kaladin has left for Hearthstone, and Shallan appears to strongly dislike Renarin. That leaves only his father as a Radiant he can turn to, and Dalinar is almost certainly preoccupied with a billion other things. 

 

 

 

Renarin, who already is an outcast in Alethkar society, is going to be experiencing one of Vorinism's greatest taboos with pretty much no guidance whatsoever. 

 

For the next few books, to be Renarin is to suffer. Which is interesting. 

 

Well, that depends.

 

This is a time of huge upheaval, and added to that two of the other Radiants already have visions and Dalinar's are well-known publicly. Before WoR I'd agreed with you for so many reasons, one of them that I think Renarin was unaware even of the existence of other Nahel Spren so must have thought he really was crazy or Voidish.

 

Now though...Renarin knows what he is and he has a place to fall into. I'm not saying it won't be hard, but it should be easier.