Timeline

[Silver Phantom he/him]

Hey every one I was wondering on your thoughts on the matter of when Tress of the Emerald sea takes place in the Cosmere timeline and where did the rocket come from? My thought is that, like sixth of dusk, it has to be pretty late because of the space ship. If I understand correctly Scadrial is the first to reach the space age and is the only one we know of to do so. The only other explanation is that one of the organizations of world hoppers could have invented them before scadrail. What do you guys Think? 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Mistbornfan said:

Hey every one I was wondering on your thoughts on the matter of when Tress of the Emerald sea takes place in the Cosmere timeline and where did the rocket come from? My thought is that, like sixth of dusk, it has to be pretty late because of the space ship. If I understand correctly Scadrial is the first to reach the space age and is the only one we know of to do so. The only other explanation is that one of the organizations of world hoppers could have invented them before scadrail. What do you guys Think? 

Yes, it takes place very late in the space era Cosmere, confirmed by Brandon. From our observation it is probably happening at least 300 years after RoW (Iriali currently are on Roshar, yet in TLM they might be on Scadrial, and 300 years before Tress happened they have left Lumar, they likely spend a few generations both on Scadrial and Lumar).

Scadrial isn't the only one to reach the space era - as you could see Riina from Ire, Elantrian from Sel, had a spacecraft herself. At this point either Sel has spaceships, or Ire has them or they are so common that anyone rich enough can afford one (but it's most likely because of Ire). Rosharans also are a spacefaring planet in late Cosmere (confirmed by chapter of SotD sequel), as the surge of Gravitation allows them to easily travel between planets. The expansion into space likely happened simultaneously on different planets and thus Cosmere in general entered into the space era rather than just one planet. It would be a huge deal.

The story is most likely being told somewhere on the First of the Sun, from the Sixth of the Dusk. There were several references to this place, there was a mention of a sailor with an appropriate name who sailed around the world without an Aviar, and of course spaceships that talk.

 

Question for mods: @Chaos shouldn't this Tress subforum not exist anymore in the Spoiler Zone?

[Chaos he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Yes, it takes place very late in the space era Cosmere, confirmed by Brandon. From our observation it is probably happening at least 300 years after RoW (Iriali currently are on Roshar, yet in TLM they might be on Scadrial, and 300 years before Tress happened they have left Lumar, they likely spend a few generations both on Scadrial and Lumar).

Scadrial isn't the only one to reach the space era - as you could see Riina from Ire, Elantrian from Sel, had a spacecraft herself. At this point either Sel has spaceships, or Ire has them or they are so common that anyone rich enough can afford one (but it's most likely because of Ire). Rosharans also are a spacefaring planet in late Cosmere (confirmed by chapter of SotD sequel), as the surge of Gravitation allows them to easily travel between planets. The expansion into space likely happened simultaneously on different planets and thus Cosmere in general entered into the space era rather than just one planet. It would be a huge deal.

The story is most likely being told somewhere on the First of the Sun, from the Sixth of the Dusk. There were several references to this place, there was a mention of a sailor with an appropriate name who sailed around the world without an Aviar, and of course spaceships that talk.

 

Question for mods: @Chaos shouldn't this Tress subforum not exist anymore in the Spoiler Zone?

Huh that's odd, I guess the script the software did didn't quite wrap this one up. I'll fix this!

[Firesong she/her]

As mentioned, we know it takes place pretty far in the future, around SotD Era. And also, yes, Scadrians are not the only people to make it to the space age, they are just one of them. 

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Yes, it takes place very late in the space era Cosmere, confirmed by Brandon. From our observation it is probably happening at least 300 years after RoW (Iriali currently are on Roshar, yet in TLM they might be on Scadrial, and 300 years before Tress happened they have left Lumar, they likely spend a few generations both on Scadrial and Lumar).

We don't know for sure if it is the same group or not. There could be more than 1 Irilai group. Which I find possible due to the fact I think Xisisrefliel is Foil, as he is a figure connected to Aethers who is under an ocean. And we know, if he is Foil, he was there by the point of RoW (so, like, in the ballpark of 330-340 PC). We also have a good idea that the exodus of the Iriali from Lumar was around the time of Xisis arrival. 

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Escovar

The Iriali left at least three hundred years prior to Tress's story. Xisis was said to have been on Lumar for at least three hundred years, by Crow's book. Is the arrival of Xisis and departure of the Iriali significantly related?

Brandon Sanderson

I did that intentionally, yes.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/515/#e16140

So, this would give us an idea of when the book takes place (less than 300 Standard Cosmere years after RoW) and it also gives an implication that they are not the same Iriali. 

The ones on Scadrial though, that one is possible. The events of SA5 might encourage them to leave, and Scadrial is known to be relatively close and accessible to Roshar (It has a dedicated Expanse, and doesn't have the same Cognitive Realm issues as Sel, nor the defensiveness of Autonomy in Taldain). So, I can believe that. 

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Firesong said:

Which I find possible due to the fact I think Xisisrefliel is Foil, as he is a figure connected to Aethers who is under an ocean.

5 hours ago, Firesong said:

We also have a good idea that the exodus of the Iriali from Lumar was around the time of Xisis arrival. 

That's why I stopped thinking Xisis is Foil, as it was said he arrived on Lumar (long after RoW), but in RoW Foil is said to study Aethers in oceans - how many Aether oceans are there in Cosmere? Lumar's Aethers are meant to be unique, not like other Aethers in Cosmere, I don't think there is another planet like Lumar. Xisis might not be Foil.

5 hours ago, Firesong said:

We don't know for sure if it is the same group or not. There could be more than 1 Irilai group.

I highly doubt it. Iriali's religion is about traveling the Long Trail. Having 2 separate groups traveling on 2 different Long Trails isn't likely. And it just complicates things unnecessarily.

What's likely is that those people spotted on Scadrial aren't Iriali. We only have one sentence describing some golden haired fairy people, which isn't that much.

[Firesong she/her]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

That's why I stopped thinking Xisis is Foil, as it was said he arrived on Lumar (long after RoW), but in RoW Foil is said to study Aethers in oceans - how many Aether oceans are there in Cosmere? Lumar's Aethers are meant to be unique, not like other Aethers in Cosmere, I don't think there is another planet like Lumar. Xisis might not be Foil.

I highly doubt it. Iriali's religion is about traveling the Long Trail. Having 2 separate groups traveling on 2 different Long Trails isn't likely. And it just complicates things unnecessarily.

What's likely is that those people spotted on Scadrial aren't Iriali. We only have one sentence describing some golden haired fairy people, which isn't that much.

True, it might just be one group and that would make sense. We ultimately just don't have enough info to say either with absolute certainty, whatever we come up with is just theories at this point.

Although I am rather certain the Scadrian ones are the Rosharan ones leaving after or during SA5. As Scadrial we know the relative location of compared to Roshar, and it is relatively close, and also one of the Expanses corresponds to it. Only strange thing is that it would require a lot of passing over the Rosharan Subastral as they are at directly opposite ends of it, but that is assuming they did normal passage over the CR, and not something similar to whatever the Ashynites did during the Expulsion. I also don't think Brandon would drop something about people that similar to the Iriali (golden hair is something mostly associated with the Iriali and those descended from them), in a work that takes place after SA5, without it having some meaning or significance. The man loves foreshadowing. 

Xisis could still be Foil, and he was studying Aethers on another planet in a normal ocean, maybe the Aether Homeworld. Like, Khriss notably just said "oceans", and when she was discussing aethers, I think it would be rather pertinent or at least relevant to say like "spore oceans" or "aether oceans". Could just be that he likes living in oceans. So, you could be right about the arrival being far after RoW, and him still be Foil. 

More evidence for this, is Xisis has such knowledge of aethers, while Khriss implies he is knowledgeable but not on the level we see Xisis. Could be between RoW and TotES, he learned a lot. 

Basically, I still think Xisis is Foil. It could just be a different ocean that Khriss was referring to. 

 

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Firesong said:

Although I am rather certain the Scadrian ones are the Rosharan ones leaving after or during SA5. As Scadrial we know the relative location of compared to Roshar, and it is relatively close, and also one of the Expanses corresponds to it.

Location doesn't matter. If their religion requires them to travel to a specific place, they will do it even if that means crossing 50 subastrals.

3 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Only strange thing is that it would require a lot of passing over the Rosharan Subastral as they are at directly opposite ends of it, but that is assuming they did normal passage over the CR, and not something similar to whatever the Ashynites did during the Expulsion.

Yes. I do wonder how the hell the entire nation just disappeared overnight. Like the logistics of it. Do they all suddenly feel they need to go, do their leaders decide it and send messengers to everyone to gather all on a certain day? What if someone was ill, in coma or just slept through it. If that was like a normal gathering and travel I find it improbable to believe that everyone just did their part as their should without spreading rumors about incoming departure. Boosted "Elsecalling" like Ashynites did seems far more plausible, especially if that can just target every individual needed, without them being near the Elsecaller.

8 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I also don't think Brandon would drop something about people that similar to the Iriali (golden hair is something mostly associated with the Iriali and those descended from them), in a work that takes place after SA5, without it having some meaning or significance. The man loves foreshadowing. 

I think it's possible that Iriali themself will just disappear from Roshar one day, and people from neighboring countries, who might have mixed ancestry, like from Rira (where Evi came from, she had golden hair), might be the one looking for them all over Cosmere - and those were the people spotted on Scadrial. Possible but unlikely, I do believe those were Iriali.

14 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Basically, I still think Xisis is Foil. It could just be a different ocean that Khriss was referring to. 

It's possible. We need more information on that.

[Firesong she/her]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Location doesn't matter. If their religion requires them to travel to a specific place, they will do it even if that means crossing 50 subastrals.

Very true. But I do wonder if the Trail is all planned out beforehand, if they are told by some figure where to go next, or if they just wander and say "this is our new planet". Definitely excited to learn more about them, and we will, they are gonna be very important in Era 4. But will likely get some expansion in Era 3 given the mention of a very Iriali-like people in TLM. 

Like, why do they travel as they do, and how do they choose planets. I don't think it would be anything to do with Shards, like Roshar and Scadrial would imply, as Lumar explicitly has none. We also know that there are more than 7 planets they would have to go to interact/Connect with all Shards (SP3 spoilers)

Spoiler

• Sel: Devotion, Dominion
• Roshar: Odium, Cultivation, Honor
• Nalthis: Endowment
• Scadrial: Ruin, Preservation
• Threnody: Ambition
• Komashi: Virtuosity
• Taldain: Autonomy

And more, as we have a good idea that the other Shards tended to settle on their own planets instead of settling with other Shards. 

 So there has to be something else leading them to do as they do.  Probably not relevant to Dawnshards, despite Roshar having one, as there are Seven Lands and Four Dawnshards. So, definitely excited to hear about why the hell they are doing this. 

iirc, the Teo people have blond hair, maybe they have mixed Iriali heritage as well? Which would make Sel happen before Roshar, perhaps? That is a bit of a stretch though. I do think it is likely Sel was somewhere on the Long Trail though. 

Maybe the first is Yolen? Or maybe that is the last. Or both. Could be a circular pilgrimage where they start at Yolen, travel the cosmere, and ultimately return to Yolen. But this is all guesswork.  

So, potential paths:

• Yolen [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > ? [7]
• ??? [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > ? [7]
• ??? [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > Yolen [7]
• Yolen [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > Yolen [7]

So these, or maybe it just doesn't have Sel. (note, I am just skipping the other lands as I can't even make theories for those yet. So I am not saying it was Sel > Roshar, moreso just, Sel before Roshar)

We can at least certain that Roshar is the Fourth Land, Scadrial is Fifth Land, and Lumar is Sixth Land. Given it is canonical that Roshar is the Fourth. Mistborn Era 2 takes place shortly after The Stormlight Archive Era 1, thus the Iriali there would be on their Fifth Land. Tress of the Emerald Sea takes place in the far future, so we can assume that the Iriali there 300 years ago were still there after the Scadrial, thus making it the Sixth Land. We know it is not the Seventh as we know that the Long Trail is only Seven Lands, and they moved off of Lumar, suggesting it was not the Seventh. 

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Not relevant, just thought of this, but I am very curious where Sleepless came from, as it is basically confirmed they aren't Yolish. As Brandon is pretty consistent that they have one origin point (and it is not Roshar), but that there are three sapient races from Yolen (Humans, Dragons, Sho Del). So, they have to come from a different planet than Yolen, and that intrigues me deeply. 

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For those that don't know, the basic published timeline now is

1. White Sand
2. Elantris
3. The Emperor's Soul
4. Mistborn Era 1
5. Warbreaker
6. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell
7. Stormlight Era 1
8. Mistborn Era 2
9. Tress of the Emerald Sea
10. Sixth of Dusk

Tress and Yumi take place around Sixth. Tress likely takes place very close to Sixth, at least, it was being told at least after 10 years before Sixth, as it references the Ones Above on First of the Sun, and they arrived around a decade before Sixth. Hoid is telling it a few decades after he experienced it, so, it likely is before Sixth, in my interpretation. 

For non-published:

1. Dragonsteel
2. White Sand
3. Elantris
4. The Emperor's Soul
5. Mistborn Era 1
6. Warbreaker
7. Nightblood
8. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell
9. Stormlight Era 1
10. Mistborn Era 2
11. Stormlight Era 2
12. Mistborn Era 3
13. Tress of the Emerald Sea
14. Sixth of the Dusk
15. Mistborn Era 4

There are a few extra ones he has planned, but we don't have a timeline for those ones. I am also not placing SP4 down on here. We know where it takes place, but this isn't the right forum to discuss that yet. 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Firesong