skaa he/him Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Edit: Changed topic title from Stormgiants to Stormstriders, as per Argent's excellent suggestion.And I'm back!I'm still trying to decide which oversized theory to post next on the 17th Shard. For now, let's me just do another round of "theory gathering" wherein I present a currently-unsolved Cosmere mystery and you guys try to convince all of us here about your theory (or your favorite theory from someone else) on the matter.Today let's look at a mystery we encountered in Words of Radiance, Chapter 74: Light came from above, too steady to be lightning. Something was glowing on the plateau. Something that moved. It was hard to see, since water streamed off the side of the plateau above, falling in a sheet before their refuge. He swore he saw an enormous figure walking up there, a glowing inhuman form, followed by another, alien and sleek. Striding the storm. Leg after leg, until the glow passed. So there were some huge, glowing things (let's call them "Stormstriders" for now) walking on the Shattered Plains during that particular highstorm. I don't think we've seen anything like this back in Way of Kings (there were mysterious flashes of light during Kaladin's storm dream, but those didn't have distinct creature-like forms).Other Sharders noticed these Stormstriders pretty early on and a few have posted about them within a month of the book's release. Some (including hoser) think these are the larval stage of chasmfiends. Flatline thinks they are voidspren, and some (like WEZ313 and Patrick Star) even think they are Unmade. None of these theories have convinced me so far.Here are some facts that may or may not help you in your theorycrafting: The glowing Stormstriders appeared before the highstorm started infusing things on the Shattered Plains with Stormlight. We know this because Shallan's dun sphere did not "recharge" until after Kaladin's talk with the Stormfather later on in the chapter. This gives us three possibilities: (A) the Stormstriders don't require Stormlight to glow, perhaps because they are spren, (B ) the Stormstriders have been traveling in the highstorm even before it reached the Shattered Plains, or (C ) both (A) and (B ) are true (e.g. the Stormstriders are some sort of spren that exist inside highstorms). Soon after Kaladin sees the Stormstriders, this happens:Rain washed over them, blown in swirls, and he swore he could hear chanting out there somewhere. Some kind of strange spren zipped past their enclosure, red and violet and reminiscent of lightning. Was that what Syl had seen?What was that chanting, and is it connected to the Stormstriders? How about the appearance of voidish Stormspren? Both seem to point to Stormform Parshendi. Were the Parshendi trying to control those Stormstriders somehow? Or are they doing something completely unrelated? Way back before the Stormstrider scene, in Chapter 49, Shallan seems to detect something inside an oncoming highstorm:A huge sheet of water and debris blown before the storm. In places, it flashed with light from behind, revealing movement and shadows within. Like the skeleton of a hand when light illuminated the flesh, there was something inside this wall of destruction....Life. Something lived inside that storm, something that no artist had ever drawn, no scholar had ever described....I need to draw. Are those "shadows of life" the same as the Stormstriders that Kaladin would later see? They don't seem to glow by themselves as the Stormstriders did. Are they some other type of creature? Happy theorycrafting, everyone! Edited October 28, 2014 by skaa 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistdork she/her Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Could this "Stormgiant" be a thunderclast that Kalak saw in the Prelude? Yes, the only reason I think that is they accord in a storm and it seems somewhat right that they might be hinted at this early. Plus, their appearance always seems monstrous, and these giants, what ever they might be, seem like monsters... (Oh, and Dalinar sees one too in WOR on pg 75)... Anyway, I thought that these giants being thunderclasts was about as likely as any of the above...so I'd thought I'd throw it out there. Edited July 19, 2014 by Nymp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think the hightstorm Shallan and Kaladin spend in the chasms is when many Parshendi went to Stormform, thus they were the chanting Kal heard. The strange red and violet spren are stormspren. They were inside the highstorm as we saw in Eshonai's PoV, but she didn't comment on any giants, so they either they didn't reveal themselves in the presence of a Parshendi or have always been there and were nothing new to Eshonai, so she didn't mention them - the legends of Voidbringers and shadows of KR and Heralds walking during highstrorms must have originated from something after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blad3mast3r he/him Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Their purpose could be to re-charge spheres….. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 When Eshonai called the Stormfather the Rider of Storms, I just assumed that the figures were him. However, that doesn't mesh with other descriptions. Even scarier, their footprints would be hidden by the devesation of the highstorm, when they would leave them at all. There's something about that that seems incredibly creepy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 The red and violet spren are almost certainly stormspren, a kind of Voidspren. The chanting was probably related to the Parshendi taking stormform. As for the giants, the Unmade might fit. But then there's the fact that Shallan noticed something in a completely different chapter. Maybe she noticed something different? If the two incidents are separate, that would go a long way towards explaining things. Another possibility is that there's at least one of the Unmade who's continuously within the Highstorm. They're supposedly "personifications of different kinds of destruction", so it would make sense that one of them exists within the stormwinds. Stormspren are probably an offshoot of this Unmade, since there isn't really another coherent explanation as to why they would be Voidish. This same Unmade would have been what Shallan saw. The other figure or figures (I interpreted Kaladin's description as a whole procession of gigantic, glowing things, but it's possible that there were only two in that case) would have been another Unmade, drawn by the creation of Voidbringers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think, based on the name and various references, that the unmade are no longer corporeal, except possibly when they are possessing another being. The glowing Stormgiants appeared before the highstorm started infusing things on the Shattered Plains with Stormlight. We know this because Shallan's dun sphere did not "recharge" until after Kaladin's talk with the Stormfather later on in the chapter. This gives us three possibilities: (A) the Stormgiants don't require Stormlight to glow, perhaps because they are spren, (B ) the Stormgiants have been traveling in the highstorm even before it reached the Shattered Plains, or (C ) both (A) and (B ) are true (e.g. the Stormgiants are some sort of spren that exist inside highstorms). Although there seems to be a single point (really a plane parallel to the stormwall, but for anywhere in the path of the storm there will be a point where the plane passes through it) where gems get charged, Kaladin can draw investiture from anywhere within the storm while fighting Szeth. Assuming these creatures are glowing due to investiture, they could be drawing investiture from the storm as Kaladin does. Even in front of the stormwall (ch 86): "The proximity of the storm kept his stormlight stoked, never letting it grow dim." If these beasts have an infusion capability like Kaladin's, they would be able to draw investiture from a position near the front of the storm. Not sayin', just suggesting another possibility. For me, the most noteworthy thing about them is that Kaladin doesn't see them in the highstorm when he is in the warcamp, Eshonai doesn't see them when she transforms near Narak and there are no strange tracks in the warcamps. This suggests that they avoid listeners and humans alike. How and why they do this are mysteries that any theory might need to explain. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why are we not considering the very real possibility that those "stormgiants" (I don't like the term, by the way, it kind of implies that we are dealing with something unseen and unhinted at before) are chasmfiend(s)? We either know, or can safely assume, that they go out in the storms, and they are also pretty massive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 How about stormwalkers? Better description according to what we know - they definitely seem to walk the storms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why are we not considering the very real possibility that those "stormgiants" (I don't like the term, by the way, it kind of implies that we are dealing with something unseen and unhinted at before) are chasmfiend(s)? We either know, or can safely assume, that they go out in the storms, and they are also pretty massive. I guess it's possible. Kaladin has just killed a chasmfiend and been chased by (presumably the same) one before. He knows what they look like. They are described from his POV. I assume that he would recognize a chasmfiend and name it, but we know where assumptions lead. The description to me indicates more legs, but that could easily be reading too much into it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The relevant passage: He swore he saw an enormous figure walking up there, a glowing inhuman form, followed by another, alien and sleek. Striding the storm. Leg after leg, until the glow passed. Enormous & inhuman could easily be a chasmfiend - the "leg after leg" fits too. The glow could have something to do with the pupation process. The second form... your guess is as good as mine. I am going to randomly guess we are seeing two chasmfiends in different stages of pupation here, but I am going with a gut feeling here. On the topic of names, if you don't buy the chasmfiend explanation, I think I can live with "stormstriders." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The relevant passage: Enormous & inhuman could easily be a chasmfiend - the "leg after leg" fits too. The glow could have something to do with the pupation process. The second form... your guess is as good as mine. I am going to randomly guess we are seeing two chasmfiends in different stages of pupation here, but I am going with a gut feeling here. On the topic of names, if you don't buy the chasmfiend explanation, I think I can live with "stormstriders." I interpreted that as an entire procession of stormstriders, not just two. If they were chasmfiends, I would think that he would say something like "creature" or "being", instead of "figure". The use of "figure" seems to imply semihumanoid form. That was one of the reasons I interpreted it as the Unmade. A procession of giant, no-longer-entirely-physical Parshendi would fit the description quite well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's amazing how unclear the passage can be... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The relevant passage: Enormous & inhuman could easily be a chasmfiend - the "leg after leg" fits too. The glow could have something to do with the pupation process. The second form... your guess is as good as mine. I am going to randomly guess we are seeing two chasmfiends in different stages of pupation here, but I am going with a gut feeling here. On the topic of names, if you don't buy the chasmfiend explanation, I think I can live with "stormstriders." But why doesn't he just call them chasmfiends rather than describing them? If they were glowing chasmfiends, why wouldn't he say "glowing chasmfiends?" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Great discussion, guys! I like Argent's term "Stormstrider" very much, so I'll use it from now on. I still don't have a strong opinion on what Stormstriders really are. I started this thread leaning more towards the "some sort of spren" option, but the discussion has moved me just a bit towards "some sort of animal". For me, the most noteworthy thing about them is that Kaladin doesn't see them in the highstorm when he is in the warcamp, Eshonai doesn't see them when she transforms near Narak and there are no strange tracks in the warcamps. This suggests that they avoid listeners and humans alike. How and why they do this are mysteries that any theory might need to explain.Actually, Eshonai went into the storm with her eyes closed, only opening them when the Stormfather arrived. It's possible the Stormstriders have already come and gone by then. Of course, given how big the Shattered Plains area is and how few humans there are staying outside during highstorms, it's not very likely for two Stormstriders to be spotted even if they're not consciously avoiding people.EDIT: I was trying to upvote one of hoser's posts above, but accidentally downvoted it. I kinda hate my phone's tiny screen now. Please correct my mistake, guys. Thanks! Edited July 21, 2014 by skaa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Until any new evidence surfaces, I'm sticking with unmade. The parshendi were readopting stormform, which Eshonai feared would attract the attention of the unmade. I believe that they were traveling towards Narak, which (combined with the timing) backs up them being unmade. These creatures were trailing stormspren, which fits with their allegiance to odium. They didn't look like any other type of spren, but they weren't completely manifested in the physical realm either, which backs up their spren-like nature. Also, bonding a stormspren allows the parshendi to travel through the highstorms unimpeded, so there's absolutely no reason to assume that one would stop an unmade. It's difficult to come to a complete conclusion this early on, but I think that this is the most feasible theory based on what we've been given. I'm wary of them being chasmfiends or thunderclasts. I don't think that thunderclasts could be described as "sleek and alien", and I'm pretty sure that Kaladin would have recognized a chasmfiend (you know, having just killed one and all that). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnshard Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I think they are not any of the listed above. I don't think they are spren, voidbeings, or Chasmfiends. Thunderclasts maybe. I think they are different then all of these and are an unknown as of now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Thunderclasts seem like the least likely option to me. I am fairly confident TCs are a product of Voidbinding, and all the evidence points to Eshonai and her stormforms being the first creatures in a long time to Voidbind. Also, which passage from the text suggests the "stormstriders" are trailing stormspren? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceria she/her Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm not quite ready to throw my vote in with any theory, though the Unmade one is currently looking the most promising (if only slightly). I just want toss out the idea that maybe there's a whole traveling ecosystem to the High Storm. Humanoids might not see much evidence of it because the lifeforms that call it home like to stay away from what we'd call civilization, with the natural destruction of the High Storm also covering any tracks. The Stormstriders could simply be one of the larger lifeforms in the ecosystem of the High Storm. Just a thought and not something I personal espouse...unless, you know, someone wants to take up this torch and manages to convince me of its likelihood. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantlee Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I've been wondering about this for a while, too. I'm hopeful we may get some answers in Oathbringer - I was reading one of the Dalinar flashbacks from Unfettered II, and the giant stormstriders are mentioned there too (meaning it's extremely unlikely these are voidspren or thunderclasts): Spoiler An explosive burst of wind drove him against the wall, and he stumbled, then stepped backward, driven by instincts he couldn't define. A large boulder slammed into the wall, then bounced free. Dalinar glanced and saw something glowing in the distance, a gargantuan figure that moved on spindly, luminous legs. Dalinar stepped back up to the door of the feast hall, gave whatever it was a rude gesture, then pushed open the door, throwing down two servants who had been holding it closed. This is in Alethkar, not the shattered plains, so I also find it very unlikely that they are chasmfiends as Argent suggested. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidrevan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Nale bringing back threads from the dead from 2014 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted February 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, lidrevan said: Nale bringing back threads from the dead from 2014 . I really don't mind him resurrecting my thread, as the topic is yet unresolved. Also, @dantlee, thank you so much for sharing that relevant scene. I wonder if Stormstriders were also in the surprise highstorm that the Stormfather sent in WoR. And also, does the Everstorm have an equivalent? That would be pretty scary. Edited February 19, 2017 by skaa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Maybe it's a Scarab? But seriously, nice find @dantlee, I agree that the location rules out chasmfiends, and I'm still not sold on thunderclasts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotai Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I seem to recall there being a (possibly separate) thread that pretty much narrowed these guys down to Moelach and Nergoual. Which is which, I'm not sure. But if the skinnier one is what Dalinar sees when he is in the midst of battle, that points to it being Nergoual (who grants the Thrill). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Knotai said: I seem to recall there being a (possibly separate) thread that pretty much narrowed these guys down to Moelach and Nergoual. Which is which, I'm not sure. But if the skinnier one is what Dalinar sees when he is in the midst of battle, that points to it being Nergoual (who grants the Thrill). For someone to "narrow these guys down to Moelach and Nergaoul", he must have first shown that Stormstriders are of Odium, and then shown that out of all the Unmade only Moelach and Nergaoul could possibly be the valid candidates for the Stormstriders. Do you remember the arguments for that? I hope someone who remembers that thread could link it here. For the record, I am in the "Stormstriders are spren, but not of Odium" camp. Moelach and Nergaoul have been shown to be active even without a highstorm, so I don't know where that argument came from. Edited February 20, 2017 by skaa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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