Ym

[Griff]

 

 

Also, I don't think healing someone else is the logical progression of healing yourself. If you are a good cook, that means you can prepare nice meals not that you can touch someone and turn them into a good cook as well. The mechanism of healing yourself and healing others is different and only a limited amount of surgebinders are capable of healing others, but all can heal themselves. It was important to see the surge of re-growth. It foreshadows what Lift did and foreshadowing is something Brandon does often.

 

First think i thought of when we first seen Kal heal himself was I wonder can he heal others or if different order of Knights could, so to me was a logical step.

 

 

 

You are a different person. I seldom think about my glasses despite wearing them from the moment I wake up in the morning until I go to sleep. I really don't understand why it is such an issue for you that Ren healed his eyesight. Just accept it and move on.

 

You dont think about your glasses but you know you need them, the hole routine of waking up-putting on your glasses is ingrained in you and a part of who you are, you dont think deep down "i dont need glasses" and as such same applies to Renarin, Do you see what i mean?

 

 

That was not a vision of the future. What Dalinar sees is a recording and the monologue is always the same. Dalinar saw a vision in which Tanavast talked about the possible future, but Dalinar did not see a vision of the future like Renarin did. Dalinar does not see the future, he sees the messages Tanavast has left in the past, therefor all Dalinar sees is past.

 

 

He didnt see a vision of the future like Renarin but Tanavast showed him the future he feared which is a possible future, just like Renarin(presumebly) sees a possible future.

 

 

 

That being said, I agree it's prematurely to put Ym as a Truthwatcher in coppermind when it's not canon yet. But I think there is more evidence to that than you give it credit. The other times someone (including) spren has talked about using light, it was about Illumination, Ym gives shoes in exchange of learning a story and this fits the attributes quite well. Also, as I said, I strongly disagree Ym's spren was like Wyndle.

 

Thats the only point i was trying to make. And i agree having read your points in this post that there was more evidence than i at first thought, but fact remains an there is equal arguable evidence that he is possibly an Edgedancer.

 

 

 

I would have no issues with Ym's Coppermind entry having a [disputed] or [speculation] tag next to where it says he's probably a Truthwatcher. That said, it's pretty clear from the section itself that Ym being a Truthwatcher is not confirmed and that it's speculation.

 

Since its not confirmed/canon then if he is in the truthwatcher section as u described there than he should also be in the Edgedancer section in the same vain, since both sides could actually be argued, or else in neither, thats all im trying to say.

 

Personally i believe he is a Truthwatcher but there is the possibility that he isnt, 

[Aleksiel]

You dont think about your glasses but you know you need them, the hole routine of waking up-putting on your glasses is ingrained in you and a part of who you are, you dont think deep down "i dont need glasses" and as such same applies to Renarin, Do you see what i mean?

 

I see your point here, but it's not like I think much about my glasses. Putting them on is a habit I don't do consciously, just part of my morning routine. You can also look at it in another way: you think about your glasses, not your eyesight. This is a tricky one, but arguably thinking you must put your glasses on isn't the same as thinking you have bad eyesight and this was the loophole that allowed Renarin's eyesight to get healed. I still think it was much weirder for Lopen to grow his arm back.

 

 

 

He didnt see a vision of the future like Renarin but Tanavast showed him the future he feared which is a possible future, just like Renarin(presumebly) sees a possible future.

 

Yes and no. Dalinar had a vision of Tanavast's vision of a future. Tanavast had recorded (can't think of a better word) the vision Dalinar had in the past, so what Dalinar saw is still something from the past. Also, I think only Navani was there when Dalinar had that one and it was never commented as a vision of the future, so Ren really had no reason to believe his visions were anything like Dalinar's.

[maxal]

I see your point here, but it's not like I think much about my glasses. Putting them on is a habit I don't do consciously, just part of my morning routine. You can also look at it in another way: you think about your glasses, not your eyesight. This is a tricky one, but arguably thinking you must put your glasses on isn't the same as thinking you have bad eyesight and this was the loophole that allowed Renarin's eyesight to get healed. I still think it was much weirder for Lopen to grow his arm back.

 

 

I have glasses and honestly, I must forget to put them on one morning out of two Nobody makes a big deal of Renarin not wearing his glasses anymore which means he must not be completely blind without them. His prescription may be a mild one, much like mine. I do not see well without my glasses, but I can get around, heck I can even drive. It could he wished he could have good eyesight like his brother and pouf, stormlight, healing. He wanted to be a soldier, he wanted to be like his big brother, so yes I do see him wanting not to need those silly glasses anymore. Especially if they are just to correct is far away vision.

 

 

Thats the only point i was trying to make. And i agree having read your points in this post that there was more evidence than i at first thought, but fact remains an there is equal arguable evidence that he is possibly an Edgedancer.

 

I honestly do not see such evidence. Ym has expressed nothing of the first attribute of the Edgedancer which is loving. First attributes are primordial in Radiants, see how Kal, Shallan and Dalinar embody their personal first attribute? All of Ym questions have been triggered by a desire to learn things. He was a quiet listener and his shoemaker career allowed him to be very giving, something he must have worked to become. It is my theory that whereas each Radiant naturally express their first attribute, the second is something they have to work for. Much like Kal has to work to become a leader, Shallan to become honest and Dalinar to become guiding. I could former noble Ym who murdered his wife and once lived in luxury having to work to become a more giving person. It fits. The choice of running a clober's shop however does not fit an Edgedancer. On the other hand, Lift tendency to eas fancy meals into fancy houses, fits.

[Griff]

 

I have glasses and honestly, I must forget to put them on one morning out of two   Nobody makes a big deal of Renarin not wearing his glasses anymore which means he must not be completely blind without them. His prescription may be a mild one, much like mine. I do not see well without my glasses, but I can get around, heck I can even drive. It could he wished he could have good eyesight like his brother and pouf, stormlight, healing. He wanted to be a soldier, he wanted to be like his big brother, so yes I do see him wanting not to need those silly glasses anymore. Especially if they are just to correct is far away vision.

 

 

We see a few Thoughts about him not wearing his glasses by Adolin and Dalinar i think? About him trying to be more soldierish? i might be wrong. if he has a mild prescription than yes i could see him not needing them.

But wishing he didnt have glasses doesnt seem enough for his eyesight to heal, perception is how u see yourself not what you wish for. Therfore if he had glasses for a long time they would be part of him and part of how he percieves himself. Im not sayin its a big thing just strange imo.

 

 

 

I honestly do not see such evidence. Ym has expressed nothing of the first attribute of the Edgedancer which is loving. First attributes are primordial in Radiants, see how Kal, Shallan and Dalinar embody their personal first attribute? All of Ym questions have been triggered by a desire to learn things. He was a quiet listener and his shoemaker career allowed him to be very giving, something he must have worked to become. It is my theory that whereas each Radiant naturally express their first attribute, the second is something they have to work for. Much like Kal has to work to become a leader, Shallan to become honest and Dalinar to become guiding. I could former noble Ym who murdered his wife and once lived in luxury having to work to become a more giving person. It fits. The choice of running a clober's shop however does not fit an Edgedancer. On the other hand, Lift tendency to eas fancy meals into fancy houses, fits.

 

The definition of learned is " a person who acquired much knowledge through study" i wouldnt consider collecting street urchins stories as that, but it fits the second ideal of the Edgedancers, 

 

You make some good points though. Although i dont think Kal needed to learn leadership he seems a natural leader. 

[maxal]

We see a few Thoughts about him not wearing his glasses by Adolin and Dalinar i think? About him trying to be more soldierish? i might be wrong. if he has a mild prescription than yes i could see him not needing them.

But wishing he didnt have glasses doesnt seem enough for his eyesight to heal, perception is how u see yourself not what you wish for. Therfore if he had glasses for a long time they would be part of him and part of how he percieves himself. Im not sayin its a big thing just strange imo.

 

I have had glasses for the past 20 years and I still do not think they are part of me    As far as we know, Renarin had his glasses at 14 and has been stuck with them for the last 5 years only. Not all eye sight issues manifest during childhood and the fact people do not comment more on it leads me to think his eye issue is not a major one. For example, my husband cannot see two foot in front of him without his glasses. If he loses them, he cannot find them again. If Renarin's vision was this bad, everyone would have noticed as it would have been impossible for him to move without them.

 

I myself could see very well as a child, it is only in my teenage years I started to notice I may have a need for glasses... Renarin is very young and seeing how he is insistent on becoming a warrior, it may be he never accepted those cursed glasses. He may harbor them and see them as a sign of his failure. I could very well see Renarin imagining himself without them and thus healing his vision. It is not a far stretch at all.

 

Dalinar and Adolin did notice, but they did not think much of it. Why? Well it must be because they know he is not blind without them. They figured he was willing to endure seeing badly just to look more like a warrior.

 

 

You make some good points though. Although i dont think Kal needed to learn leadership he seems a natural leader. 

 

He isn't. He keeps running away from it. He keeps not wanting to take the lead. He only ends up doing it because it is the only way he has found to protect people. He also has huge issues seeing the big picture of things. He keeps thinking only of his small group of people: his squad, his bridgemen which thus leads him to make many leadership mistakes. To be a leader you need not only to be the one in charge, but also the one to take the decisions, to see the scene of things and for this, he still has a lot to learn.

[Shaggai]

As for the blood sickness, personally, I think most of the problem is in between Renarin's ears, imo it is not physical. I know Kaladin diagnostic him a certain form of epilepsy (yeah right as if such diagnostic could be made just after a 2 minutes conversation, so I give little value to Kaladin's words), but I have since wondered if Renarin's sickness was not in fact a blockage he has. It always comes forward when there is fighting involved and never at other occasions. In fact, we practically do not see the sickness except in battle situation where Renarin has to hold sword and do something. I am therefore thinking there is nothing wrong with him physically, but mentally, each time he takes the sword, his body revolves by sending a fit. Some sort of protection mechanism, probably linked to his autism, but not something stormlight can "heal" as there is nothing to "heal".

Kaladin isn't the one who diagnosed Renarin with epilepsy.

[maxal]

Kaladin isn't the one who diagnosed Renarin with epilepsy.

 

Yes he is. Before Kal, we did not know what it was Renarin suffered from. In fact, all through WoK, I thought he had hemopilia: a disease that prevent blood coagulation that is highly dangerous in the case of injury..... It all made sense. With a shardplate, he wouldn't need to worry so much about injury, but epilepsy? Honestly, I failed to see how a shardplate makes it possible for Renarin to learn to fight... If he has a fit, then he has a fit. Wearing a shardplate won't change a thing on his ability to learn to fight.

 

Bottom line is before Kal's diagnostic on the fly, it was impossible to guess which disease Renarin really had.

[Shaggai]

Yes he is. Before Kal, we did not know what it was Renarin suffered from. In fact, all through WoK, I thought he had hemopilia: a disease that prevent blood coagulation that is highly dangerous in the case of injury..... It all made sense. With a shardplate, he wouldn't need to worry so much about injury, but epilepsy? Honestly, I failed to see how a shardplate makes it possible for Renarin to learn to fight... If he has a fit, then he has a fit. Wearing a shardplate won't change a thing on his ability to learn to fight.

 

Bottom line is before Kal's diagnostic on the fly, it was impossible to guess which disease Renarin really had.

Words of Radiance, page 474 or thereabouts:

"Physical ailments," Renarin said. "I've a blood weakness."

"That's a folk description of many different conditions," Kaladin said. "What do you really have?"

"I'm epileptic," Renarin said. "It means-"