Argenti he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) Recently I've had a ton of Cosmere theories and just wanted to put them all into one giant post. This is just my thoughts on how the cosmere began and PLEASE correct anything I got wrong. I put my explanations into spoiler boxes. (Very minor spoilers for Dragonsteel prime works, mostly Worldbuilding stuff) Spoiler At the beginning of what would become the Cosmere, there was nothing but Adonalsium, and all things were Adonalsium. Ado was driven to create, and so he did. Ado used a command of 4 parts that made the fabric of the cosmere and defined the nature of his power (investiture) Create/Begin (All things of the cosmere come from Ado) Remain/Bind (The First Law of Investiture, separating the three realms, Connection, and investiture turns into metal.) Change (Investure's ability to shift between realms, change forms, change from matter to investiture to energy, Fortune) Feel (Investure wants a mind to guide it, the shards seeking a vessel, all things are somewhat self-aware, investiture becomes more sapient over time, Identity, Intent being necessary to use magic.) (Sp4) Spoiler Yes, that's my Dawnshard theory; I got these from trying to figure out the mechanics of the cosmere rather than the Shards since the Dawnshards did predate them. But here's my matching Shards. Create/Begin Endowment Virtuosity Invention ??? Bind/Remain Preservation Honor Dominion Autonomy (This doesn't fit name wise but her behavior seems to signify it, with all the conquering) Change Ambition Whimsy Ruin Cultivation Feel Odium Valor Mercy Devotion These commands collapsed into the Dawnshards, foci of Adonalsium's power, loops of his will. Now that Ado has defied the mechanism of the cosmere, he got to work. He started with Yolen, making humans and other earth-like beings. Later, he made Roshar, shaping the ecology and making A new humanoid species. After this creative flurry, Adonalsium rested. However, his titanic release of power did not go unnoticed. For while he rested, the Aether came. The Aethers are parasitic beings from outside of the cosmere. The Aethers seek to consume the power of beings like Adonalsium. While the Aethers could not fight Adonalsium directly, they could siphon off some power, or when pure investiture is not available, consume and metabolize water into their own form of investiture. With their coming, they brought the fain, an ecosystem of their design, which, like the aethers themselves, takes the native ecosystem and corrupts it. The aethers arrived at the center of Adonalsium's power, Yolen. The fain had two sentient life forms, Dragons and sho del. The aethers shaped the Dragons to act as emissaries to those on Yolen, granting power and new shapes to those that accept their gifts. Thus the Sho-Del was born. Originally human, but now something else, something greater. Spoiler AETHERS ARE ALIENS!!!It's my solution to the dissonace between the aethers saying the exsited sepreate from Ado, while brandon says everything in the cosmere comes from Ado. It also helps explain why they break so many of the rules of the cosmere. Below are some other Aether Wobs. Spoiler Quote Bumtown1 Is Adonalsium a unique being or are—were—there others? Brandon Sanderson RAFO! The aethers would say that there were lots. That there's like a bunch of aethers and Adonalsium. That they were co-equals. The aethers would say there were lots of them. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Quote Pagerunner If a well-studied singer were to become an aetherbound, how would they (with their innate understanding of tones) evaluate the core aethers' claim to be independent of Adonalsium and the Shards? Brandon Sanderson They would not have enough experience with the cosmere in general to be able to say yes or no. How about this. If they went to all the different tones and compared them, they would find something different happening with the aethers, I think is what the question is getting at. So there is some evidence cosmereologically for the aethers' claims to be independent of Adonalsium. There are also evidences that arcanists could put forward that say otherwise. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Quote ChromatiCaos You said that all Investiture got assigned to a Shard when Adonalsium got Shattered, which Investiture do the Dawnshards draw from? What about the aethers? Brandon Sanderson Dawnshards and aethers both predate the Shattering, and the rules don't apply to them. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Quote Questioner Ostensibly, all of the magic that we’ve seen in the cosmere ultimately originated from Adonalsium. Ostensibly. Brandon Sanderson Ostensibly. Questioner Does Adonalsium have a counterpart with equal or comparable power? And if so, have we seen that counterpart’s influence in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson This is a matter of personal philosophy. The aethers are said (by themselves) to co-date Adonalsium and to not be derived from Adonalsium’s power. So there is at least one that is theorized to be that way, but it’s going to depend on who you trust and who you talk to. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Quote LewsTherinTelescope Are the aethers native to multiple worlds? Brandon Sanderson Currently, no - but they have spread + they claim to be not from any world. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Those who did not accept the gifts of the Dragons became fearful of this hostile alien force that spread across their home. Eventually, the Dragons grew bored of using their power only as the aethers required and rebelled; They awoke Adonalsium, wrathful upon these interlopers. Ado forced his will upon the aethers, making them conform to his laws and limiting what they could do. However, this attack on the Aethers had consequences; Ado was infected, his mind clouded by the Aether's alien magic. sp1 Spoiler "It's for your own good" said Hoid with 16 other people. In other words, God went mad. This, obviously, was bad; Adonalsium went on a rampage, throwing magic and death across the realms. A group of the newly freed fain life and humans (I haven't read dragon steel prime, so you can figure this out for yourself) Dragons knew of ways to kill beings like Adonalsium, but that required them to be heavily weakened by centuries of aethers draining their might. They concluded that the only way to defeat God was to use their power against them. They knew only of 4 significant deposits of Adonalsium. The Dawnshards, the foci of the laws of Adonalsium. The group took the Dawnshards and forged them into a weapon of unparalleled power. They used the Commands that created the Cosmere to unmake Ado. They shattered God and ripped him apart. They made Adonalsium feel what he had done, forced him to change into something new, bound and stabilized the shifting investor, and created something new. The Shards have 16 forces, each representing a piece of Adonalsium's mind or power. The shards had an overwhelming intent that matched their name. The Shattering fundamentally altered how the cosmere works. Investure left over from Adonalsium's frenzy became assigned to one of the new shards, sometimes changing how they work. The group of people ascended to the shards, which sought a mind to guide them. As Vessels, they formed a promise not to interfere with each other and left to explore their new power. Thoughts? Edited June 23, 2023 by Argenti I forgot devotion :skull: 4
Treamayne Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argenti said: Recently I've had a ton of Cosmere theories and just wanted to put them all into one giant post. This is just my thoughts on how the cosmere began and PLEASE correct anything I got wrong. I put my explanations into spoiler boxes. Thoughts? How much of this is inspired by various SP and SA5 spoilers? It's interesting, but much seem unfamiliar, so I'm not willing to rea the explanations until I am sure that the SA4 spoiler section is the only part with anything derived from any unpublished material (including DS Prime, but not including the WS and AoN material that is unpublished but distributed freely). As far as the posited Commands - 1 and 2 seems very similar. I would guess that they should combine as "Be" and the fourth is then "Be Not" (entropy). Edited June 23, 2023 by Treamayne SPAG
Argenti he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Author Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Howmuch of this is inspired by various SP and SA5 spoilers? It's interesting, but much seem unfamiliar, so I'm not willing to rea the explanations until I am sure that the SA4 spoiler section is the only part with anything derived from any unpublished material (including DS Prime, but not including the WS and AoN material that is unpublished but distributed freely). Pretty much nothing from SA5 (Roshar is for a different post) ; the sp4 spoiler is just a new shard name, I mention the well know 16 vessels and some details of Yolen's worldbuilding (Like how Fain works on Yolen, which comes from DSP), but most of my details come from WOBs or the coppermind. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure on exactly where I got some of the info, but it should be mostly spoiler free. D Edited June 23, 2023 by Argenti Beware of minor DSP spoilers
alder24 Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Argenti said: Recently I've had a ton of Cosmere theories and just wanted to put them all into one giant post. This is just my thoughts on how the cosmere began and PLEASE correct anything I got wrong. I put my explanations into spoiler boxes. (Very minor spoilers for Dragonsteel prime works, mostly Worldbuilding stuff) Hide contents At the beginning of what would become the Cosmere, there was nothing but Adonalsium, and all things were Adonalsium. Ado was driven to create, and so he did. Ado used a command of 4 parts that made the fabric of the cosmere and defined the nature of his power (investiture) Create/Begin (All things of the cosmere come from Ado) Remain/Bind (The First Law of Investiture, separating the three realms, Connection, and investiture turns into metal.) Change (Investure's ability to shift between realms, change forms, change from matter to investiture to energy, Fortune) Feel (Investure wants a mind to guide it, the shards seeking a vessel, all things are somewhat self-aware, investiture becomes more sapient over time, Identity, Intent being necessary to use magic.) (Sp4) Hide contents Yes, that's my Dawnshard theory; I got these from trying to figure out the mechanics of the cosmere rather than the Shards since the Dawnshards did predate them. But here's my matching Shards. Create/Begin Endowment Virtuosity Invention ??? Bind/Remain Preservation Honor Dominion Autonomy (This doesn't fit name wise but her behavior seems to signify it, with all the conquering) Change Ambition Whimsy Ruin Cultivation Feel Odium Valor Mercy Devotion These commands collapsed into the Dawnshards, foci of Adonalsium's power, loops of his will. Now that Ado has defied the mechanism of the cosmere, he got to work. He started with Yolen, making humans and other earth-like beings. Later, he made Roshar, shaping the ecology and making A new humanoid species. After this creative flurry, Adonalsium rested. However, his titanic release of power did not go unnoticed. For while he rested, the Aether came. The Aethers are parasitic beings from outside of the cosmere. The Aethers seek to consume the power of beings like Adonalsium. While the Aethers could not fight Adonalsium directly, they could siphon off some power, or when pure investiture is not available, consume and metabolize water into their own form of investiture. With their coming, they brought the fain, an ecosystem of their design, which, like the aethers themselves, takes the native ecosystem and corrupts it. The aethers arrived at the center of Adonalsium's power, Yolen. The fain had two sentient life forms, Dragons and sho del. The aethers shaped the Dragons to act as emissaries to those on Yolen, granting power and new shapes to those that accept their gifts. Thus the Sho-Del was born. Originally human, but now something else, something greater. Hide contents AETHERS ARE ALIENS!!!It's my solution to the dissonace between the aethers saying the exsited sepreate from Ado, while brandon says everything in the cosmere comes from Ado. It also helps explain why they break so many of the rules of the cosmere. Below are some other Aether Wobs. Reveal hidden contents Those who did not accept the gifts of the Dragons became fearful of this hostile alien force that spread across their home. Eventually, the Dragons grew bored of using their power only as the aethers required and rebelled; They awoke Adonalsium, wrathful upon these interlopers. Ado forced his will upon the aethers, making them conform to his laws and limiting what they could do. However, this attack on the Aethers had consequences; Ado was infected, his mind clouded by the Aether's alien magic. Hide contents "It's for your own good" said Hoid with 16 other people. In other words, God went mad. This, obviously, was bad; Adonalsium went on a rampage, throwing magic and death across the realms. A group of the newly freed fain life and humans (I haven't read dragon steel prime, so you can figure this out for yourself) Dragons knew of ways to kill beings like Adonalsium, but that required them to be heavily weakened by centuries of aethers draining their might. They concluded that the only way to defeat God was to use their power against them. They knew only of 4 significant deposits of Adonalsium. The Dawnshards, the foci of the laws of Adonalsium. The group took the Dawnshards and forged them into a weapon of unparalleled power. They used the Commands that created the Cosmere to unmake Ado. They shattered God and ripped him apart. They made Adonalsium feel what he had done, forced him to change into something new, bound and stabilized the shifting investor, and created something new. The Shards have 16 forces, each representing a piece of Adonalsium's mind or power. The shards had an overwhelming intent that matched their name. The Shattering fundamentally altered how the cosmere works. Investure left over from Adonalsium's frenzy became assigned to one of the new shards, sometimes changing how they work. The group of people ascended to the shards, which sought a mind to guide them. As Vessels, they formed a promise not to interfere with each other and left to explore their new power. Thoughts? It's interesting. Very. But (of course there is a but) I don't think Aethers are like that. All WoBs on this matter say "Aethers claim to predate Adonalsium" or "rival Adonalsium'' etc, it's always about what Aethers claim to be, not what they really are - but that doesn't mean they are right in their claims. But that's the minor nitpick. I certainly don't think Aethers stood against Adonalsium nor that they are behind creation of Fain Life and Dragons, because those are nothing like Aethers themself. Aethers don't have power like that. Aethers also aren't parasitic, they're symbiotic Tress spoilers: Spoiler Lumar's strain of Aethers is likely the only parasitic strain, which was noted to be very unusual. Most are like Silajana, forming a symbiotic relation with their Aetherbound. There is also this WoB where Brandon said that he wouldn't put Prime Aethers combined as equal to a Shard in terms of power, so there is no way for them to rival Adonalsium himself. Spoiler Questioner Obviously the Shards are the top dogs in terms of power and stuff, but Hoid seems to be his own level of dangerous. Are there any other characters as sort of rivals to his ambition or power? Brandon Sanderson Depends on how you want to express it. Some of the dragons from Yolen are as old and are very crafty. You could argue that the aethers, the actual core aethers, are as ancient and potentially powerful. I wouldn't put them by raw power at Shard level, but they would claim that they are. Depends on what you would think there. There are some other individuals of a similar, not as dangerous as Hoid, but on a similar level. Been around for thousands of years, investigated a lot of the magics, and these sorts of things. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Another thing is that there are WoBs about a "force opposing Adonalsium" which turned out to be just the people that Shattered him - no Aethers were counted as such force. So while Aethers claim to be outside of Adonalsium's power and creation, they were not opposing him. Spoiler Eric In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]? Brandon Sanderson You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that. Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016) And there is more of a philosophical question. What is alien in Cosmere? If Adonalsium created the whole universe, where did Aethers come from if there was nothing before? People in Cosmere believe it to be the case, but Brandon don't want to answer the question if Adonalsium created the whole universe or just Cosmere dwarf galaxy (or star cluster), because that would answer the question if Adonalsium is the God in Cosmere, which is not something Brandon wants to answer. So if the only thing we have is people's beliefs, then it's likely Adonalsium created everything and Aethers had no place to came from to be "alien" in Cosmere. Spoiler Questioner Was Adonalsium the one who created the cosmere universe as a whole? Brandon Sanderson That is widely assumed to be the case. Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) Spoiler Questioner So, is Adonalsium limited to the cosmere galaxy? I don't think he created the universe? Brandon Sanderson That is a RAFO. But the cosmere is a dwarf galaxy... They don't know about that. Questioner Will they? Brandon Sanderson Maybe. Oathbringer San Diego signing (Nov. 14, 2017) Spoiler Questioner In the universe that the cosmere takes place in, is Adonalsium god or is he a smaller entity? Brandon Sanderson That is a matter of some debate and I will not answer yes or no because I would rather not-- I would rather leave it to the characters' debate. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)
Argenti he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Author Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, alder24 said: There is also this WoB where Brandon said that he wouldn't put Prime Aethers combined as equal to a Shard in terms of power, so there is no way for them to rival Adonalsium himself. I'm pretty sure he means like each individual aether isn't as strong as a Shard. 3 minutes ago, alder24 said: Aethers don't have power like that. Aethers also aren't parasitic, they're symbiotic The lime between symbiotic and parasitic is very fine. Aethers could get much more out of the bargain and still technically be symbiotic, but I would list them as parasites, not in exact definition but it feels right. 6 minutes ago, alder24 said: And there is more of a philosophical question. What is alien in Cosmere? If Adonalsium created the whole universe, where did Aethers come from if there was nothing before? People in Cosmere believe it to be the case, but Brandon don't want to answer the question if Adonalsium created the whole universe or just Cosmere dwarf galaxy (or star cluster), because that would answer the question if Adonalsium is the God in Cosmere, which is not something Brandon wants to answer. So if the only thing we have is people's beliefs, then it's likely Adonalsium created everything and Aethers had no place to came from to be "alien" in Cosmere. Yea this is the biggest issue with my theory, Brandon avoiding the question. We likely won't get the answer for a long time. Or really never.
ftl Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 I like the theory! I doubt 100% of it is right, but I really like the core idea - that the Aethers are from outside the Cosmere and that's why they don't quite fit and why they argue about their relation to Adonalsium.
alder24 Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Argenti said: I'm pretty sure he means like each individual aether isn't as strong as a Shard. Context matters, he was talking about Aethers, that's why they wouldn't be on the same power level as a Shard. All of the core Prime Aethers combined. 2 hours ago, Argenti said: The lime between symbiotic and parasitic is very fine. Aethers could get much more out of the bargain and still technically be symbiotic, but I would list them as parasites, not in exact definition but it feels right. Parasites give nothing in return. Parasites harm their host. Aethers aren't parasites. They are the definition of symbiotic relationship.
Argenti he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Author Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Context matters, he was talking about Aethers, that's why they wouldn't be on the same power level as a Shard. All of the core Prime Aethers combined. It also just means non-gendered, which ancient beings of investiture could be. 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Parasites give nothing in return. Parasites harm their host. Aethers aren't parasites. They are the definition of symbiotic relationship. Not necessarily; it just needs to cause harm to the host, which draining the water out of them certainly is. Just because both sides benefit doesn't mean it's not parasitic; the water gained might outweigh the investiture expended. Quote Parasitism is a kind of symbiosis in which one organism (referred to as the parasite) benefits at the expense of another organism (referred to as the host); the interaction may also cause harm to the host. sp1 Spoiler Even though the lumar ones are an exception, in that they appear to be parasitic, while most other Aethers don't, just because they appear to be symbiotic doesn't mean they are. Blue and orange biology! Their needs are so far removed from our own we could never figure it out! Technically a parasite is in a symbiotic relationship if we go by scientific definition. Symbiosis is just any relationship.
alder24 Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 18 minutes ago, Argenti said: It also just means non-gendered, which ancient beings of investiture could be. "You could argue that the aethers, the actual core aethers, are as ancient and potentially powerful. I wouldn't put them by raw power at Shard level, but they would claim that they are." 20 minutes ago, Argenti said: Not necessarily; it just needs to cause harm to the host, which draining the water out of them certainly is. Just because both sides benefit doesn't mean it's not parasitic; the water gained might outweigh the investiture expended. Parasites provide no benefit to the host. That's why they are parasitic, not mutually symbiotic. In the case of Primar Aethers and Aetherbound, they are mutually symbiotic, not parasitic. Both of them have benefits and while some harm is done, Aetherbound can control how much harm is allowed. Prime Aethers gain water, Aetherbound can grow Aethers - that's not parasitic. 24 minutes ago, Argenti said: Technically a parasite is in a symbiotic relationship if we go by scientific definition. Symbiosis is just any relationship. Yes, mutualism then.
Argenti he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Author Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, alder24 said: Parasites provide no benefit to the host. That's why they are parasitic, not mutually symbiotic. In the case of Primar Aethers and Aetherbound, they are mutually symbiotic, not parasitic. Both of them have benefits and while some harm is done, Aetherbound can control how much harm is allowed. Prime Aethers gain water, Aetherbound can grow Aethers - that's not parasitic. Fair point. In the actual theory I was referring to them as parasites on ado, not in general. 2 minutes ago, alder24 said: "You could argue that the aethers, the actual core aethers, are as ancient and potentially powerful. I wouldn't put them by raw power at Shard level, but they would claim that they are." 30 minutes ago, Argenti said: Yeah, he's using collective them, but still could mean each aether isn't equal to a shard.
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