Oathbringer down... bring on the Rhythms

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Okay people.  I know it took me a long long time but I just finished Oathbringer. 

I have to say my favorite part of the entire book has to be Wit's ending piece. It had everything I have wanted from the cosmere. His awakening the doll and then changing up the command was gold... then him finding his Cryptic. 

That said. I must move on with the series. Rhythm of War is next and it makes me curious about the Rhythms. I know I have have RAFO's coming from most but I will pose a question or two (or plenty more if you have read my threads before). 

My first one is perfect pitch vs rhythms. I had read a theory that perhaps one day Vasher will need to give Navani perfect pitch to aid her in the study and creation of new fabrials. I dont want to shoot down that theory but I wonder if there isnt a bigger difference between the perfect pitch and the rhythms. I remember reading or listening to a theory about a specific vibration such as the God Vibration that holds things together. Cymatics and the cosmic vibrations of the universe hint that atoms and matter are held together by the vibrations.  I have been wondering about that and its potential connection to the cosmere. I feel like there are many WoBs out there that I have seen but I am not in a position to go searching them out and I kind of want to pose this question around not having the full answer already in my spoiler-laden brain. 

I think that all of the mental allomancy chart is mostly based on the rhythms. Bronze seeks them out and allows you to hear them (very strong ones anyways), and copper dampens them to near nonexistance. Copper is said to have some effect on spren but what that is, I believe, has been slapped with RAFO. I am curious if zinc and brass also work on rhythms. Perhaps their soothing of emotions is dampening specific rhythms and their rioting is to enhance specific rhythms. 

Not saying any of this is how it works but if it is it would be neat. How disruptive could a mistborn be in a battle against the singers or listeners or any of the fused and parshmen? The ability to silence rhythms around them... the ability to manipulate the rhythms they are hearing or perhaps even for see when tactics are about to change as rhythms change and are heard by a seeker. 

Most likely this more than basic use of metals can accomplish (perhaps lerasium strength is needed).

Now for my Nalthis curiousity. A lot of what I see in awakening seems to mimic other magic systems through breath. We have seen 2 very different awakened blades that act as shardblade's and both of them cut differently. One destroys completely and the other seperates and drains color and whatever cosmere wide implications color have to the ability to live and act is effected by that I think. What if you were to awaken a weapon that plays on the rhythms? I should be more specific about that perhaps. If sound vibration holds the building blocks of existance together do you think an awakened weapons to disrupt and destroy the rhythms of things it cuts could be an effective tool?  Perhaps an awakened tuning fork wand of destruction that directs the rhythm opposite of creation at a target of choice? 

This is all just my shower thoughts for the morning and I figured where better to let them get torn up than the cosmere discussion boards. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

That said. I must move on with the series. Rhythm of War is next and it makes me curious about the Rhythms. I know I have have RAFO's coming from most but I will pose a question or two (or plenty more if you have read my threads before). 

Dawnshard. Read the Dawnshard novella. It's important to Cosmere.

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

My first one is perfect pitch vs rhythms. I had read a theory that perhaps one day Vasher will need to give Navani perfect pitch to aid her in the study and creation of new fabrials. I dont want to shoot down that theory but I wonder if there isnt a bigger difference between the perfect pitch and the rhythms. I remember reading or listening to a theory about a specific vibration such as the God Vibration that holds things together. Cymatics and the cosmic vibrations of the universe hint that atoms and matter are held together by the vibrations.  I have been wondering about that and its potential connection to the cosmere. I feel like there are many WoBs out there that I have seen but I am not in a position to go searching them out and I kind of want to pose this question around not having the full answer already in my spoiler-laden brain. 

Just hearing Rhythms doesn't make you hear them and replicate them perfectly. You'll see. But Perfect pitch would be a useful tool that could help with that. But if you can't hear Rhythms at all, perfect pitch won't help. I don't like that theory, it's easier for Vasher to just give Navani 200 Breaths that he likely has.  

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think that all of the mental allomancy chart is mostly based on the rhythms. Bronze seeks them out and allows you to hear them (very strong ones anyways), and copper dampens them to near nonexistance. Copper is said to have some effect on spren but what that is, I believe, has been slapped with RAFO. I am curious if zinc and brass also work on rhythms. Perhaps their soothing of emotions is dampening specific rhythms and their rioting is to enhance specific rhythms. 

Not like that. Soothing or Rioting might have no effect on Rhythms - they are spiritual and those metals affect emotions. It might make it harder to tune into those specific Rhythms but that's not that useful, as Singers can already attune to a Rhythm they don't feel at all.

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory
Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

 

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

What if you were to awaken a weapon that plays on the rhythms? I should be more specific about that perhaps. If sound vibration holds the building blocks of existance together do you think an awakened weapons to disrupt and destroy the rhythms of things it cuts could be an effective tool?  Perhaps an awakened tuning fork wand of destruction that directs the rhythm opposite of creation at a target of choice? 

How would that fork move to create that sound? And it can only create one frequency. And Rhythms are spiritual, not physical. I don't think it is possible to create a weapon like that. 

You could awaken a cloth to play on a violin a specific Rhythm but that would act like what Singers play to grow food, not like a weapon.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

32 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Dawnshard. Read the Dawnshard novella. It's important to Cosmere.

Just hearing Rhythms doesn't make you hear them and replicate them perfectly. You'll see. But Perfect pitch would be a useful tool that could help with that. But if you can't hear Rhythms at all, perfect pitch won't help. I don't like that theory, it's easier for Vasher to just give Navani 200 Breaths that he likely has.  

Not like that. Soothing or Rioting might have no effect on Rhythms - they are spiritual and those metals affect emotions. It might make it harder to tune into those specific Rhythms but that's not that useful, as Singers can already attune to a Rhythm they don't feel at all.

  Hide contents

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory
Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

 

How would that fork move to create that sound? And it can only create one frequency. And Rhythms are spiritual, not physical. I don't think it is possible to create a weapon like that. 

You could awaken a cloth to play on a violin a specific Rhythm but that would act like what Singers play to grow food, not like a weapon.

Dawnshard first. Did I miss the window for Edgedancer?  I totally forgot about the both of them.  

So the rhythms are different from what soothers and rioters do in how they work however soothing and rioting could impact the ability for a singer to align with a rhythm. It might work differently than I thought but still for a similar effect. Perhaps in combination with a coppercloud making it harder for them to attune as well? I imagine it will get more and more dangerous as people start playing with more potent forms of investiture. Obviously Dor fueled rioting and soothing is far above what metals could fuel and I imagine stormlight fueled soothing would be more similar to that. A Dor fueled seeker might hear beyond just the simple kinetic investiture usage? A pure investiture fueled coppercloud could probably cause a lot bigger disturbance than what we have seen before in the right circumstance. A place where magic is based around these things would be an interesting testing grounds.

The tuning fork I had thought about as I was typing this thread out... just one frequency makes it implausible at best. A bard with enough breaths to maintain the 2nd heightening who can awaken a musical orchestra would be neat and perfect pitch could probably aid in that. I wonder if perfect pitch and bronze allomancy would synergize with one another to aid in this even more?

[alder24]

Just now, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Dawnshard first. Did I miss the window for Edgedancer?  I totally forgot about the both of them.  

Not really. Like you do, but you can still read it easily and catch up now.

2 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

A Dor fueled seeker might hear beyond just the simple kinetic investiture usage?

Unlikely. A-bronze detects only kinetic investiture.

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I wonder if perfect pitch and bronze allomancy would synergize with one another to aid in this even more?

Possibly.