What is the effect of Bendalloy on the Pure Rhythms of a planet?

[Walter The Moral]

So, we know that a Pure Rhythm of a planet (let's go with the Pure Rhythm of Preservation for now) is always at the same part, no matter where you are in the world. That's how the Singers could always sing in time with each other. But what happens if you're in a speed bubble while listening to a Pure Tone? Would the Tone suddenly slow down? Would it stay the same for you, and then go back to where it should be when you're out of the bubble? What would happen?

[Quantus]

The Rhythms are a Spiritual Realm thing, so they probably would be able to transcend the different reference frames.  

[alder24]

41 minutes ago, Walter The Moral said:

So, we know that a Pure Rhythm of a planet (let's go with the Pure Rhythm of Preservation for now) is always at the same part, no matter where you are in the world. That's how the Singers could always sing in time with each other. But what happens if you're in a speed bubble while listening to a Pure Tone? Would the Tone suddenly slow down? Would it stay the same for you, and then go back to where it should be when you're out of the bubble? What would happen?

Rhythms are in the Spiritual Realm, which is timeless and spaceless - there would be no change in Rhythms

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory
Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

 

[Walter The Moral]

15 hours ago, alder24 said:

Rhythms are in the Spiritual Realm, which is timeless and spaceless - there would be no change in Rhythms

So someone in a Bendalloy Bubble would hear them slows down? What do you mean?

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Walter The Moral said:

So someone in a Bendalloy Bubble would hear them slows down? What do you mean?

I mean that Singers won't notice any change in Rhythms, a Singer could go in and out of the bubble and hear no difference in Rhythms speed. The Spiritual Realm has no time, the only time that matters is Singer's timeframe, because that's the part of the connection that they have that will be affected by time change.

[Walter The Moral]

So what happens when they leave the bubble? The Rhythm can't be off beat, since, as you said, it's part of the SR. Would the Rhythm bounce back?

[Edro2702]

Would there be special sections of the rhythm specifically for this? Like insert or remove

first post by the way

Edited May 12 by Edro2702

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Walter The Moral said:

So what happens when they leave the bubble? The Rhythm can't be off beat, since, as you said, it's part of the SR. Would the Rhythm bounce back?

Alright, I don't know anymore. I've quickly looked at how Eshonai measured time by the Rhythm of Peace, or how they predict Highstorms by using the Rhythm of Wind, and I see now 2 possible options:

1. Rhythms are not only a connection between a Singer and SR, but Rhythms themself are strongly connected to Roshar (WoB 1 and WoB 2) in that case Rhythms are beating according to Roshar's timeframe, not individual timeframe
2. Individual Singer's connection is more important than Rhythm's connection to Roshar, then Rhythms are beating according to Singer's individual timeframe.

In the case of the bubble, if 1st option is true, then the Rhythms will change in speed for the person inside of the bubble. Cadmium bubbles will cause Rhythms to speed up, while bendalloy will slow them down - because even inside of the bubble, the timeframe Rhythms are beating in is the timeframe of the whole Roshar. In this case the Rhythm of Winds will still be able to accurately predict incoming Highstorms, or the Rhythm of Peace will accurately predict time of the day. But if a Singer inside the bubble has a clock, they would notice that the clock is showing a different time than the Rhythm of Peace tells them, because that clock is tied to their perspective, while Rhythms are tied to the whole planet's perspective. A Singer leaving the bubble will hear Rhythms suddenly slow down/speed up, because your timeframe is catching up with Roshar's timeframe, to which Rhythms are beating.

Now if the 2nd option is true, then the Rhythm is tied to the Singer's Individual timeframe, and from their perspective, Rhythm's beat will not change at all when leaving the bubble or entering it. Two Singers, one standing inside of Bendalloy bubble, the other outside, will hear Rhythms according to their own timeframe - for every 1 minute that passes for them there is 1 beat. But both of them are experiencing different time and 1 minute for the person outside of the bubble is 10 minutes for the person inside the bubble. The person inside of the bubble would say that 10 minutes have passed for them, because they've heard 10 beats, while the person outside of the bubble, listening to the same Rhythm, would say that only 1 minute has passed, because he heard only 1 beat.  Both of them were right, for both of them the same Rhythm was beating according to their individual perception of time.
But this is causing the problem - because Rhythms are attuned to individual timeframe, you can no longer accurately predict Highstorms, nor the time of day, and after spending some time in the bubble, that person will hear Rhythms differently than all around him, and instead hearing midnight beats of the Rhythm of Peace, he will hear 7PM beats or something like that. That's why I now think that this is not the case, option 2 is not possible and Rhythms will slow down/speed up in a time bubble, because they are connected to Roshar itself, and are in Roshar's timeframe.

The only possible way Rhythms interact with time bubbles is option number 1 - the same two Singers will say that according to the Rhythm of Peace, only 1 minute has passed for both of them and both of them heard only 1 beat, even when one of them was inside of the bubble where he experienced 10 minutes. Every single Singer hears the same beat at the same time, it must be true even when time bubbles are used. That person heard the Rhythm of Peace in a very slowed down version, stretched, to fit 1 minute of song into 10 minutes that he was experiencing. Rhythms will not measure time that each Individual Singer is experiencing, but the time which whole planet Roshar is in.

 

 

I was wrong previously, Rhythms' speed will change in the time bubble form the perspective of a Singer's inside of the bubble. He will hear Rhythms slowed down in a bendalloy bubble and speed up in cadmium bubble. When leaving or creating the bubble, Rhythms will suddenly catch up. It will be like watching a YT video at 0.25 speed and then just turning it back to 1 speed. 

That was a very tricky question, it made me think a lot. Well done.

2 hours ago, Edro2702 said:

Would there be special sections of the rhythm specifically for this? Like insert or remove

first post by the way

Hello, Welcome to the Shard. I hope this response will clear the confusion.

[Walter The Moral]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Alright, I don't know anymore. I've quickly looked at how Eshonai measured time by the Rhythm of Peace, or how they predict Highstorms by using the Rhythm of Wind, and I see now 2 possible options

Thanks for the in depth answer, I absolutely agree with your conclusion!