The Cosmere and Chivalry

[Iredomi]

I need help. I have an essay due much too soon, and it requires I talk about chivalry in modern fantasy and I have of course decided to talk about the Cosmere. I know it may be a bit much to ask but I was thinking since a community this size has a lot more brain power than I, it would be great to hear your insight (with evidence) on how you think chivalry and knighthood are portrayed in Brandon's Cosmere books in particular the Stormlight Archive. Thanks to all who help in advance =)

 

EDIT: I thought I might add what I've come up with. I believe Brandon subverts the theme of chivalry being about the masculine protecting the feminine in the way the Knights Radiant is not limited to males, and also he takes away the problematic nature of chivalry glorifying warfare in that Knighthood is not all about violence. Of course Kaladin's protect those who can not protect themselves carries with it unsettling assumptions about the relationships of power that are not always necessary, but in practice Kaladin has shown how one can train those to protect themselves, which levels the power relationship a tad. Umm this is just some of the stuff floating around in my brain but yeah what do you all reckon?

Edited June 14, 2014 by Iredomi

[Argent he/him]

Uh, this is really going to depend on how you want to approach this. The Knights Radiant are the only knights literally named in the Stormlight Archive, but they are not traditional knights. The oldest definition of the word I know of comes from the Latin word for "horseman" (cabellarius) - which, in and of itself, is not directly useful to you, but it gives you an idea about how much the meaning has changed. 

 

I say this so you can choose your context well. I don't know how exactly you want to compare the Radiants, but the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the First Ideal is your best starting point. All of the Immortal Words we have seen so far can be treated as an extension or interpretation of the First Ideal. You could make that the core of your argument, and then use specific Ideals to solidify your point and provide different perspective. Dalinar's visions should prove useful in giving you a more traditional frame of reference, as they are the only place we see true Radiants.

 

You could, of course, ask for a two-year extension on the essay, pointing out that Stones Unhallowed will definitely give you more sources to work with

[Iredomi]

Thanks, a two year extension would be rather splendid. My main focus at the moment is actually on varying representations of chivalry in fantasy literature. The main authors I will be talking about are Malory, Tolkien, George R.R. Martin and Brandon Sanderson. Malory "essentially" came up with the chivalric guide in literature, Tolkien made it popular again though never wished to glorify the concept, Martin outright decries it as damaging and Sanderson...  well I believe he takes the best parts of chivalry and recontextualises them to improve and cut away some of the more problematic stuff from them.

 

The Code and the Ideals will probably be my main focus though so much thanks for your speedy and perceptive response =)

 

However more than just getting aid for an essay I want to start a discussion that I perceive to be very interesting in regards to Sanderson's books.

[Quiver he/him]

I'll chime in later, but I just want to say, this sounds like an awesome essay topic and I am insanely jealous of you.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Umm... doing stuff like this will only get you A+ or A if your teacher understands Sanderson. If your teacher doesn't, quote Martin. 

 

(Trust me, it's from personal experience)

[Quiver he/him]

Maybe a something that might help would be considering, and contrasting, the origins of chivalry, both in the fantasy and in history? A Song of Ice and Fire basically argues that the whole concept of chivalry is false, a construct that lords have invented to make what they seem more cultured. There was a comment I saw on the Tor spoiler discussion of the books describing the difference between knights (all male) and the wildlings (a mix of men and women, none of whom are knighted, cultured, and whose very name makes them sound like a disorganised rabble).

 

I haven't read the Silmarillion, but I don't think that matters much; Tolkien doesn't exactly delve into the topic, but the way his characters act says soemthing about it. The Elves are always noble and courteous; even those who are basically thieves (like Thranduil) have refined speech patterns, and elict respect from everyone around them. Certain humans seem to embody the virtues of courtly manners and chivalry innately- most obviously Aragorn (I need to reread LotR; when he reveals himself to Frodo, isn't there a shining light implied?) and Faramir. By contrast, other men like Denethor or Boromir had public displays of virtue, before ultimately caving. Aragorn and Framir's ability to reject the Ring is shown as an example of how they are "better" than the others.

Then there are hobbits, who are basically good people. Frodo and Sam's relationship is definitely a noble one, and thats linked to nature, like the elves or the rangers... so I think Tolkien argues that chivalry is partly an innate thing that people simply have. It's a part of the natural world.

 

Then, Stormlight Archive, you could point out how having a diety named Honor and codifying the ideals makes them, effectively, a religious mandate. The god of Roshar demands you act in an honorable manner.

[Tien'sPetLurg she/her]

*crossing my fingers I don't kill another thread by posting in it* (Is it my lurg slime?!)

In The Way of Kings, the codes that Dalinar adheres to, much to the disdain of others in his community, are mostly about chivalry. Often these codes are seen as nuisance and unimportant to those who do wish to follow them. Over time, the value of the practice must be proven (usually because something goes wrong since they Didn't follow them) in order for the current generation to conform to the customary behaviors. Dalinar, himself, was a convert after tragedy occurred while he was drunk on the job. Adolin doesn't enjoy living by the code, especially when it comes to fashion, but he has a semi-chivalrous nature. He rescued the prostitute from violence. But he also, cluelessly, flirts with women in front of the woman he is courting. That is anything but polite. Adolin Is fond of dueling for "honor."   /And now my mind goes into a tangent about honor vs ego./ <- disregard

When we look at the larger definition of chivalry, the qualities of courage, honor, courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak, we see that most cultures in Sanderson's books fall short of equal treatment/justice for all. There is a huge "chasm" (forgive the term) in equality. The treatment that is unacceptable for one group is completely over-looked in another group. Parshendi? Bridgemen? Slaves? Who cared what happened to them? 

Overall I think Sanderson presents people as they are: we want to pick and choose which codes to follow, when we want to follow them and extend courtesy and grace only to those whom we select are worthy of receiving it.  And most of the time, we do it without any thought whatsoever.

Some authors may glorify chivalry to the extent that it's not realistic. Others may take the opposite position. Sanderson hits it square in the middle. He shows the reality of fallible human beings trying to live up to ideals. We don't get often get it right, but the heroes sure do try.

I hope that helps you in some way. Good luck with the essay! 

 

[Ashiok]

Adding on to what Lurg said, once Dalinar realized what he did, he sort of went OVERBOARD with the chivalry thing... He forced it onto his sons and all. You can be over chivalrous and that is bad

or you can be Sadeas and not Chivalrous (abandoning Dalinar on the plains and all) that is also bad. 

I think that the harmony between the two is struck by Kaladin. He doesn't have outer rules governing his behavior and clothing like the codes, he just swore Oaths, and lives up to them. The oaths just happen to make him a better person

 

For another author, Michael J. Sullivan's Rirya revelations is great b/c it centers around a pair of honorable thieves, and then you have Brockton who is the living embodiment of chivalry in the later books

[Edgedancer he/him]

Another thing to add to the chivalry in the SA are the Ryshadiums. As Argent said the term chivalry comes from horseman. Given that they are really fancy horses and are associated with the Knight Radiant, one could argue that they are attracted to to people with honour/chivalry. This in turn would further present Dalinar and Adolin as having true (better) chivalry when compared to the rest of the people in the warcamps.

[Pathfinder]

Another thing to consider is it is said to be chivalrous, one must be honorable yet as Sanderson has shown us already, to be honorable can be seen in many different ways and many times can come into conflict with each other. Prime example is Szeth (skybreakers) and Kaladin (Windrunners). For Szeth being honorable is holding to an oath against all else, for Kaladin it is preserving his personal sense of what is right/just. So in many ways though being chivalrous may be considered holding to a code, the interpretation of that code can be taken many different ways.