Making Forgeries Permanent

[Trusk'our he/him]

In The Emperor's Soul, Shai mentions that there is a high likelihood that Ashravan's mind would eventually accept the changes made by his Soulstamp and he would no longer need to receive a new stamping each morning.

I think I have an idea for how this might work, and perhaps the extent to which Soulstamps can be made permanent without any other magic system hacks.

Think of it this way; a Forger (let's call him Jim) stamps himself so that his past self was slightly more proactive, giving himself a year of training with the sword. The Forgery takes well, as he's always wanted to use the blade, he just never had enough motivation or money to easily or consistently practice it.

Jim continues to stamp himself each day, practicing and using his sword and winning duels- laying Connections and in his Spiritweb of having skill with the sword and forming memories in his Cognitive aspect.

Even though the fake Connections and memories fade, the new Connections and memories don't'- they are natural and will stay even after the stamp falters. As such, Jim will continue to build up these Connections and memories until he has skill comparable to, and perhaps beyond, what he had originally Forged into himself.

As for Invested abilities Forged into the Spiritweb (such as Allomancy), I don't think that they will stay; they are formed from extra Investiture added to the Spiritweb, not just Connection. As such, even if you used a power a lot that had been Forged into the Spiritweb and made lots of natural Connections to it, it would still vanish with the rest of the unnatural changes made by the Forgery.

(As a side note, I don't think that the temporary powers are made of Kinetic Investiture, as they can be stolen and used by Hemalurgy- otherwise they'd disperse right after being captured inside a spike without any fuel to maintain them-, but they must use Kinetic Investiture from the Soulstamp to be Forged and to remain in place.)

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1560

Questioner

If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

We actually worked this out. *laughter*

Questioner

Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts?

Brandon Sanderson

So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know--

Still, lots of potential for permanent Forgery, I'd say. I'd love to hear your guy's thoughts on the matter 

[alder24]

That sounds possible, I like it. Nothing more to add, you've already explained it very well.

[Trusk'our he/him]

48 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That sounds possible, I like it. Nothing more to add, you've already explained it very well.

Thanks! I appreciate it 

[Duxredux he/him]

You do realize you just reinvented magic "fake it, 'till you make it" right?

If you calculate in the amount of time to build the stamp (unless you're willing to go to the risk of commissioning one and put your soul at risk), research the topic to be able to get sufficient skill to describe it accurately in the Forgery (presumably if you gave yourself techniques that are incorrect, practice won't necessarily make you better), and then start stamping yourself, that might not get you too far ahead from just doing it the normal way.

Facetious opening remark aside, a simple stamp that helps you be more motivated and not get discouraged by constant practice is a magic of its own.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Duxredux
clarity

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

You do realize you just reinvented magic "fake it, 'till you make it" right?

Lol, 

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

If you calculate in the amount of time to build the stamp (unless you're willing to go to the risk of commissioning one and put your soul at risk), research the topic to be able to get sufficient skill to describe it accurately in the Forgery (presumably if you gave yourself techniques that are incorrect, practice won't necessarily make you better), and then start stamping yourself, that might not get you too far ahead from just doing it the normal.

Probably. Still, you might be able to do... something interesting with it. 

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Facetious opening remark aside, a simple stamp that helps you be more motivated and not get discouraged by constant practice is a magic of its own.

I agree completely (wish it existed IRL). Although, electrum Feruchemy kind of does that already (and more directly and more easily too). Storing would be a pain though.

[Duxredux he/him]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:55 AM, Trusk'our said:

Lol, 

Probably. Still, you might be able to do... something interesting with it. 

I agree completely (wish it existed IRL). Although, electrum Feruchemy kind of does that already (and more directly and more easily too). Storing would be a pain though.

Oh, I think aspects of this process does help, but more than just making the skills of a Forgery permanent and no longer needing a stamp. I think gaining real experience allows the soul to more plausibly go from an average practitioner to a master. Shai's ordinary lockpicking skills aren't shabby but with one of her Essence Marks she's incomparable. Spending lengths of time practicing probably also gives a solid core of plausibility to the Stamps. For someone like Shai who literally carves Stamps to relax while doing the most insane speed Soul Stamp research project ever, this strategy would be helpful to get to the point of high competence in a short time and then carve Essence Marks that give her 10,000+ hours of experience.

There's a limit to what you can achieve without an Essence Mark unless you put in consistent time. I've had a lot of roles and professions in my life, and while I'm sure I could pick up them up again pretty quickly, as of now I don't remember most of what I learned from my physics class, CNA training, or vehicle safety regulations. A stamp would work to get my mind and body back to a state where I was doing that kind of thing on a daily basis, though it can't give any advancements in those fields. For that matter, that kind of Stamp might help you practice as if you hadn't just taken three months off to carve a soul.