Higgs-Boson Spren Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 We know that Brandon has wanted the Aethers to be important for a long time. We see that the Shades on Threnody are vulnerable to silver which kills Aethers. They also have a significant physical resemblance to the Midnight Aether and Midnight Essence. My theory is that the Evil on Threnody is the Midnight Aether and that the Shades are manifestations of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 3 minutes ago, Higgs-Boson Spren said: We know that Brandon has wanted the Aethers to be important for a long time. We see that the Shades on Threnody are vulnerable to silver which kills Aethers. They also have a significant physical resemblance to the Midnight Aether and Midnight Essence. My theory is that the Evil on Threnody is the Midnight Aether and that the Shades are manifestations of it. They don't look like Midnight Essence. During the day they are transparent, and respond slowly, at night they are white, glowing a bit. Only when enraged do they become black and their eyes start to glow in green/red. And Shades were people once.People killed by Shades became Shades themselves (like Silence’s grandmother) They are Cognitive Shadow, they aren't Midnight Essence. Spoiler danimalod I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones? Brandon Sanderson Shades are what we call "Cognitive Shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where Investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies. Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms. Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 4, 2015) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs-Boson Spren Posted April 25 Author Report Share Posted April 25 (edited) I specifically think they are a different strain of the Aether. The biggest reason i have for this is the silver. So far as i can remember, nothing seems to be affected by silver except the Aethers on Lumar and the Shades. Am i forgetting something? Also they are not like any other cognitive shadow that we’ve seen before, this could be because they are the Aethers’ version of a cognitive shadow or something. Their ability to turn people they kill into Shades is also somewhat reminiscent of the Arthers to me. Edited April 25 by Higgs-Boson Spren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 3 hours ago, Higgs-Boson Spren said: I specifically think they are a different strain of the Aether. The biggest reason i have for this is the silver. So far as i can remember, nothing seems to be affected by silver except the Aethers on Lumar and the Shades. Am i forgetting something? Silver has just unique properties in Cosmere. Raboniel was given a silver chain that anchors people through cognitive anomalies in the Cognitive Realm, which is very valuable and rare. Raboniel's dagger was made out of silver-nickel alloy. On Roshar it possibly can be used to permanently kill spren. It's also suggested in WoB that silver can be invested with Stormlight. On Scadrial it is Allomantically inert, and when burned by Mistborn it doesn't make them sick (Mistborn burning wrong alloys makes them sick), and even has some undiscovered properties. Electrum is an alloy of gold and silver. Silver is significant across the whole Cosmere. 3 hours ago, Higgs-Boson Spren said: Also they are not like any other cognitive shadow that we’ve seen before, this could be because they are the Aethers’ version of a cognitive shadow or something. Their ability to turn people they kill into Shades is also somewhat reminiscent of the Arthers to me. Aether Cognitive Shadow? Aether is the name for two things: Prime Aethers, which are sentient beings, and Aethers which are the "essence" of Prime Aethers (vines, roselite, Midnight Essence etc.). Cognitive Shadow is when a person's soul after death get invested to the point where they don't feel the pull into the Beyond. Kelsier is one, Returned, Heralds, Fused are the others. And Shades are as well. However, Shades are different because during early days after the Shattering, Ambition was fighting Odium (and likely Mercy) near Threnody, and chunks of Ambition's power were raining down on the system, corrupting the planet and investiture on it. Both Shades and the Evil are the result of this event. Shades are called Cognitive Shadows not only by Brandon, but also in books - by Khriss in Ars Arcanum, by Nazh and Ire in Secret History, and likely somewhere else. They are very much made out of humans (again, Silence's grandmother has been turned into a Shade), and those humans are neither Spore Eaters or Aetherbound - they have no connection to Aethers. Shades are less aware than normal Cognitive Shadows, but there is still something left of them (like Silence's grandmother never attacks Silence). Apparently, there are rituals on Threnody to make normal Cognitive Shadows. Aethers don't turn people they kill into Aethers. There is no similarity here. The Evil itself might be of Aethers, we know almost nothing about it, but Shades and the Evil, as far as we know, are not the same phenomena. Shades are independent from the Evil, and there were no Shades on the continent where Evil is. WoBs: Spoiler Questioner In Mistborn, silver doesn’t play a role. But then in Shadows for Silence, silver does play a role... Brandon Sanderson It does. I still wanted silver to be part of the Cosmere. Questioner But we’ll never see it in Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson It does not, as they understand currently, interact with Allomancy, with the three Metallurgic Arts. Silver does have a Cosmere role. Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017) Spoiler Kenzal Would it make an Allomancer sick if they tried to burn pure silver? Brandon Sanderson As it stands right now, nothing would happen, because they would know if it did. Good question. Silver has some weird properties, but on Scadrial they are largely undiscovered. Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018) Spoiler Ace Heat Would it be possible to use an aluminum spike to permanently kill a spren? Brandon Sanderson No, that's not gonna work. Silver, on the other hand, there's some possibility. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Spoiler OrangeJedi So, Kaladin obviously draws Stormlight from a pouch, all the time... If the pouch was coated in, say aluminum, would he still be able to draw the Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson No. Good question. OrangeJedi What about if it was coated in silver? Brandon Sanderson Yes, he probably still could. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Spoiler Questioner If you had aluminum or silver, could someone using Gravitation or Adhesion, could they throw that? Or would they be unable to infuse it with Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson Yes, they would be unable to. Footnote: Silver does not seem to have the same Investiture-blocking properties as aluminum. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Spoiler Pagerunner The silver-nickel alloy that is used in Raboniel's dagger where the... Is that going to do the opposite effect (like a Pushing vs. Pulling) of what silver does to shades on Threnody? Brandon Sanderson RAFO, good question. Good question! JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021) Spoiler Sweetness Since the evil on Threnody isn't a Shard, can you tell us anything about its nature? Is it an actual being, and is it related to Adonalsium? Brandon Sanderson Everything is related, in the Cosmere, to Adonalsium. Most of the magic you're seeing is a just a natural outgrowth of Cosmere-related magic, you're seeing Cognitive Shadows. The Evil is similarly related. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) Spoiler WeiryWriter To what extent do the Shades of Threnody remember their lives? Silence’s grandmother appears to recognize her but on the whole Shades don’t really act like people. Kelsier however, the other main example of a Cognitive shadow, seems little altered from his living state. Brandon Sanderson Shades of Threnody are not as self-aware as other shadows. General Signed Books 2016 (July 31, 2016) Spoiler dark-winter-knight What is the difference between a person's Spiritweb and their spiritual DNA? Is there a difference? Brandon Sanderson Soul, generally used in the cosmere, is a spiritual or philosophical term. It refers to the part of a person that continues to exist after death, or to the "being" of the person in a philosophical term. A Spiritweb is a measurable, quantifiable thing in the cosmere. (Granted, it's not easy to do either to one, but it can be done.) It is a scientific term, though because the cosmere hasn't reached modern scientific understandings yet, there is a lot of overlap between science, philosophy, and spirituality. This way, acknowledging that a person has a Spiritweb does not require an atheist/humanist to affirm religious ideas or concepts--like acknowledging that the Vessels/Shards exist does not require also affirming that a capital G God exists. The separation of the two is necessary to allow people like Jasnah to not be undermined by the text. It wouldn't be right of me to work for having representatives of viewpoints contrary to my own if the very foundation of the magic systems and physics proved them wrong. So, in short, you can measure a Spiritweb. Whether a person actually has a soul or not (even in the cosmere) is subject to your own personal philosophy on the idea. Even ghosts and other persisting personalities after death, like certain individuals who shall remain unnamed, have a very real and rational magic system explanation for their existence. aravar27 Is a Cognitive Shadow essentially Investiture filling in the molded pattern of a Spiritweb to the point where it resembles the initial person? I'm interested in the implications with respect to personal identity--the "soul" would be one of the competing answers for the question "what am I," but some argue for psychological continuity and others for biological continuity. A Cognitive Shadow seems like it might better fit the Psychological Criterion, since it seems like Investiture replaces the biological body as the source of living and experiencing things. Brandon Sanderson You're getting into things that are subject to debate among people in the cosmere. Most shadows would insist that they're the same person. Others would dispute this, saying they're essentially a spren--a bit of the power that came alive like you said, taking on the personality of the person when the person themselves died. BipedSnowman Like uploading a brain to a computer. Made of Investiture. Brandon Sanderson A fitting analogy. Aurora_Fatalis Does it matter what kind of power it was that filled the gaps? Like, if you were a normal human and made a Cognitive Shadow fueled by AonDor, would you be more able to "possess" a modern computer than if you were made a Cognitive Shadow by - say - Odium? Brandon Sanderson This can matter. Shades from Threnody, for example, work differently from Returned, who are different from Heralds. But all are Shadows. General Reddit 2019 (Nov. 27, 2019) Spoiler Questioner If Kelsier's [Cognitive Shadow] or a seon went to the Forests of Hell, would they be shades there? Brandon Sanderson Yes, that is the same thing. Now, you can see that there-- the people on that planet; their Investiture; the lack of Shard means that their Cognitive Shadows react differently. [...] In fact, the Cognitive Shadow is also the same thing as the ghost you saw in Mistborn, that was the spirit of Leras is the same thing too. Words of Radiance San Francisco signing (March 6, 2014) But I give you that, there is a connection between Aethers and Shades because of silver, but I think it's because of how silver works in Cosmere, not because Shades are Aethers (again, there is a way to kill spren with silver, and spren aren't Aethers, they are far closer to Cognitive Shadows like Shades): Spoiler Hannah Is there a connection between spores and silver, and shades and silver? Brandon Sanderson Yes, that is a good question to ask. There is, indeed, a connection. Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 8, 2022) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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