Fusing Spren

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

I've been wondering something due to a few WOBs

Spoiler

Questioner

So, is it possible for a spren to get more Investiture? And if it does, will it kinda level up into a higher form of spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it's possible. That is totally possible.

And there is one where Brandon says that Spren can be merged just like Sazed did with Harmony. Can't find it though.

 

So this has made me think as to the possibilities this represents. You'd probably need something like trapping two Spren in a single large Gemstone and doing something with Tones and stuff? I dunno but I wonder on what this could do for Singers and Surgebinders.

I feel like it'd be easiest to merge two Lesser Spren of the same type like Windspren together, then if you had a Singer Bond with it to take on Nimbleform, would that Form be upgraded?

Not to mention on what might be possible if someone could merge two Radiant Spren from different Orders together.

[Trusk'our he/him]

38 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So this has made me think as to the possibilities this represents. You'd probably need something like trapping two Spren in a single large Gemstone and doing something with Tones and stuff? I dunno but I wonder on what this could do for Singers and Surgebinders.

I think that Raysium would be useful in this regard, as you could cram more than one in a larger Gemstone. I think that you'd also have to find a way to strip them of their Identity, otherwise they would remain separate.

Maybe if you Hemalurgically excised their Identity with duralumin? They'd be less Invested individually, but together maybe you could get it to work.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

12 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I think that Raysium would be useful in this regard, as you could cram more than one in a larger Gemstone. I think that you'd also have to find a way to strip them of their Identity, otherwise they would remain separate.

Maybe if you Hemalurgically excised their Identity with duralumin? They'd be less Invested individually, but together maybe you could get it to work.

Interesting, though how you would Spike them while they're stuck in a Gem I have no idea.

Also wouldn't that steal their Connection as well? What would lacking a Connection do to a Spren? Probably nothing good but you might be able to move them off-world. 

Maybe try enclosing them in a very tight Aluminum or Silver box and compress them? Or we might need to follow Navani's footsteps and find a kind of Emulsifier? 

I'd say we might need a Bondsmith for this but I think that's too obvious an answer.

[Trusk'our he/him]

6 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Interesting, though how you would Spike them while they're stuck in a Gem I have no idea.

I was thinking of spiking them before catching them in a Gemstone.

7 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Also wouldn't that steal their Connection as well? What would lacking a Connection do to a Spren? Probably nothing good but you might be able to move them off-world. 

Honestly... you probably would have something akin to a Deadeye, so trying this strategy with a Radiant Spren would be a bad idea.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

I was thinking of spiking them before catching them in a Gemstone.

That makes more sense, though trying to find their Bindpoints would be pretty annoying. Especially for ones that move around a lot like Windspren.

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Honestly... you probably would have something akin to a Deadeye, so trying this strategy with a Radiant Spren would be a bad idea.

Oof, yeah. Definitely not something to use on ones that talk.

 

Maybe Anti-Tones can be of use in this endeavour, by playing it you'd be repelling the Spren, so maybe this would work as a rough compressor, by playing two repelling Anti-Tones on both sides of a gem with two Spren you could cause them to compress into each other and merge. Or maybe use it to rip out the Investiture of one and feed it to another?

[Trusk'our he/him]

36 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

That makes more sense, though trying to find their Bindpoints would be pretty annoying. Especially for ones that move around a lot like Windspren.

Spren who manifest in Shadesmar more fully would likely be much easier to find Bindpoints on (if you travel their to spike them).

Windspren specifically would be difficult though, as they aren't very big, they move quickly, and they don't manifest in the CR very much.

36 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Maybe Anti-Tones can be of use in this endeavour, by playing it you'd be repelling the Spren, so maybe this would work as a rough compressor, by playing two repelling Anti-Tones on both sides of a gem with two Spren you could cause them to compress into each other and merge.

Interesting. I bet that you could use Anti-Tones to compress and hold Hemalurgic charges inside Hemalurgic Spikes better as well (to help keep them from decaying).

36 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Or maybe use it to rip out the Investiture of one and feed it to another?

Maybe "inject" a Spren with no Identity directly inside another one with a Raysium dagger? I think that might work, as it would be similar to combinging Hemalurgic charges from multiple people.

Quote

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

yulerule

Can you reuse a spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Uh, yes, technically, but not as easily as that question makes it sound.

yulerule

Can you re-use it if it's for the same exact thing or for a different thing? Will that change?

Brandon Sanderson

Spikes are going to get keyed by Identity--

yulerule

So you can't already spike that person. But if you spike and don't kill them can you spike the same person again?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah and if you can somehow strip the identity of the person or the spike-- So yes you can use them again but it comes into a sort of-- Like, you can't just take that spike and spike somebody else.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Kendelian he/him]

Interesting idea. I feel like spren would be susceptible to the Rhythms and Tones, because we know the the Singers use specific Rhythms to lure and bond with a spren. So maybe a composite/harmonized Rhythm could be used to fuse the spren, but that would require a lot of Singers though.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

8 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Interesting. I bet that you could use Anti-Tones to compress and hold Hemalurgic charges inside Hemalurgic Spikes better as well (to help keep them from decaying).

Pretty sure Aluminum boxes would be more effective in that regard.

8 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Maybe "inject" a Spren with no Identity directly inside another one with a Raysium dagger? I think that might work, as it would be similar to combinging Hemalurgic charges from multiple people.

I wonder if you could use Raysium to absorb the 'Leakage' of Investiture, then you could just use a Nicrosil Spike on one Spren, put the spike in an Aluminum box with an opening for a Raysium rod, then attach the rod to another Gem containing a spren to transfer the Investiture from the box into the Gem.

7 hours ago, Kendelian said:

Interesting idea. I feel like spren would be susceptible to the Rhythms and Tones, because we know the the Singers use specific Rhythms to lure and bond with a spren. So maybe a composite/harmonized Rhythm could be used to fuse the spren, but that would require a lot of Singers though.

This could be a much more ethical way of doing his rather than relying upon Hemalurgy and Raysium.

 

Something else I'm wondering is, if you fused enough Lesser Spren together into a single Spren, would that Subspren gain sentience like Radiant Spren?

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

30 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Something else I'm wondering is, if you fused enough Lesser Spren together into a single Spren, would that Subspren gain sentience like Radiant Spren?

Enough investiture in one place will become sentient given enough time, so yes.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Just now, TheSurvivorofDeath said:

Enough investiture in one place will become sentient given enough time, so yes.

I wonder if fusing enough 'Cousin Spren' like Windspren together would eventually result in an Honorspren?

[ScavellTane]

I like this idea.. a Fused integrated with a Radiant Spren.. definitely would be wild.