Feruchemy Draws from all 3 Realms

[Trusk'our he/him]

I was on another thread that was talking about Lerasium Hemalurgy and the topic came up on whether or not Feruchemy draws from all three realms of the Cosmere. I felt that it would be better to further discuss it on a new thread, as it seems big enough a question all on its own.

As I understand it, Feruchemy typically draws from the spiritual realm, diverting the natural flow of Investiture of the Feruchemist's Spiritweb almost like a river that normally flows into a lake being diverted to fill a reservoir. This Investiture can be tapped from a Metalmind to temporarily increase the attribute that was stored earlier, and the Feruchemist returns to their natural state of being as soon as they cease to fill their Metalmind (the flow of Investiture no longer being diverted, and the "river" returning to fill the "lake").

However, not all Ferucehmical powers seem to follow this rule.

F-copper allows for memories to be stored, but the Feruchemist doesn't "snap back" to their normal state after they stop filling the Metalmind- they have to tap it again to retrieve what was lost.

The same rule applies to Feruchemical bendalloy, cadmium, and brass; attributes stored with those metals are completely lost until tapped.

I believe that this is because they don't draw Investiture from the spiritual realm at all, but because they draw from the physical and cognitive realms; the attributes are converted into Investiture, stored inside Metalminds, and later converted back into their original form for use.

In this case, it's less like a river having its flow diverted and more like a pool of water getting emptied into barrels for later use; the pool doesn't return to its original form or regain its water unless more water is actively brought into it through natural processes (such as eating to regain calories or your brain forming more memories) or unless the barrels have their water return to the original pool.

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter so that I can determine if this idea of mine is accurate or not.

[Mistchemist16]

Let me see if I understand correctly. Normally, the spiritweb provides Investiture to people’s natural abilites, like a river flowing into a lake. You originally thought that Feruchemy was temporarily making another branch into somewhere you could store: the metalminds.
 

But you’re saying instead it’s a three step process. If the attributes are water, then the Spiritual Realm is a river and you are the lake it empties into. Feruchemy then takes from the lake, not the river

I think it does make sense since you can’t distinguish most Feruchemical attributes. Maybe all attrubutes are technically “distinct” like a copper mind and it’s just imperceptible in most cases.

My only question then is this. How does Hemalurgy fit in? If I remeber correctly, something like the Blessing of Potency supplies energy from the Spiritual Realm, kinda like a perfect gem for Stormlight. But Hemalurgic can’t be redirecting from the victim themself: that person is dead. Instead, Hemalurgy tricks the Spiritual Realm into fueling the recipient twice. Once for the donor and once for their real self.
Maybe even as a sort of hack since distance  doesn’t exist in the Spiritual Realm. It thinks it’s feeding two people instead of one

Alteroden

With Stormlight, the better the gem is cut, the less Stormlight it leaks, and the longer it holds its charge. If a gem was perfectly cut, on a molecular scale, would it leak Stormlight at all?

Brandon Sanderson

In a theoretical flawless gem, then no it would not.

Alteroden

Would it actually give off light?

Brandon Sanderson

[...] Theoretically no it would not, but it's not what you're thinking...

Alteroden

No no no, that’s not what I’m thinking, I figured that’s something totally different.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, actually, it probably would still give off light, because it's drawing out of the Spiritual Realm. So I’d say it still lights, but it doesn't leak. The leaking is not where the illumination is coming from. The illumination is coming from a direct... It's basically a light bulb screwed into the Spiritual Realm.

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Let me see if I understand correctly. Normally, the spiritweb provides Investiture to people’s natural abilites, like a river flowing into a lake. You originally thought that Feruchemy was temporarily making another branch into somewhere you could store: the metalminds.
 

But you’re saying instead it’s a three step process. If the attributes are water, then the Spiritual Realm is a river and you are the lake it empties into. Feruchemy then takes from the lake, not the river

I think that it's more like most of the Feruchemical attributes work as the river/pool analogy, but copper, bendalloy, brass, and cadmium are the ones that draw directly from the reservoir (the PR and CR), because we see that they work differently.

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

My only question then is this. How does Hemalurgy fit in? If I remeber correctly, something like the Blessing of Potency supplies energy from the Spiritual Realm, kinda like a perfect gem for Stormlight. But Hemalurgic can’t be redirecting from the victim themself: that person is dead. Instead, Hemalurgy tricks the Spiritual Realm into fueling the recipient twice. Once for the donor and once for their real self.
Maybe even as a sort of hack since distance  doesn’t exist in the Spiritual Realm. It thinks it’s feeding two people instead of one

My favorite kind of question/hypothosis; one that involves Hemalurgy's mechanics 

Hemalurgy works by taking Spiritweb parts from one person and adding them to another Spiritweb.

Take the Blessing of Potency, for example. The recipient becomes stronger because there is Static Investiture in the Hemalurgic spike (the Spiritweb fragment) drawing power from the spiritual realm and moving it into the recipient.

In this way, it is a lot like most of the Feruchemical powers (with the exception of the four I already laid out); power comes directly from the SR and is fed into the Hemalurgist. More spikes (or really, more Spiritweb fragments) means more "water" in the "river" of Investiture that flows into the "lake", which is why Hemalurgy permanently adds a constant flow of power to the recipient while Feruchemical power is only temporary; Hemalurgy actually changes and adds to the Spiritweb of the practitioner (recipient of the charged spike) while Feruchemy just allows you to shift around what you already have.

So basically, yes, you're right.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Trusk'our

[cometaryorbit]

Feruchemy definitely involves all three Realms, Khriss says so in the Era 2 Ars Arcanums.

I don't think most metals store a flow of energy from the Spiritual Realm, though. I don't think normal humans - no Invested Arts involved - are constantly drawing from the Spiritual. Their soul is Spiritual, but it's not constantly "powering" the body and mind - regular biology is doing that.

There's probably an analogy to Hemalurgy making koloss, in that storing strength isn't just joules of mechanical energy - it's probably a Spiritual change that filters down to affect the other Realms, since muscle mass actually changes when storing/tapping strength. And it's not literally converting muscle mass into Investiture, either, since then it wouldn't return when the Feruchemist stops storing - they'd have to tap to get back to their original state, like memories in f-copper.

Similarly, using tin Feruchemy to tap eyesight gives telescopic vision with narrower field of view, so it probably changes the actual shape of the eye rather than just being a magical boost like tin Allomancy. And f-zinc makes people hungry faster, so it probably changes the physical brain.

So yeah, these forms of Feruchemy probably really temporarily change the spiritweb/Spiritual DNA "description" for the Feruchemist, reducing one variable now in exchange for being able to increase it later.

As for the "snap back" exceptions.. I'm not sure. It's clear that copper works differently from pewter/steel/etc. Brass I'm not sure - it might actually store the ability to produce heat metabolically rather than heat energy itself (like pewter storing muscle mass rather than mechanical energy). Bendalloy probably does store energy, so likely would be an exception like copper. Cadmium could too, but unless tapping too much can give oxygen toxicity, I think it likely doesn't store oxygen per se but the oxygenated state of the Feruchemist's body.

Edited April 1, 2023 by cometaryorbit