Awakening an Allowmancer/Feruchemist

[Newly Awakened]

If an Awakener made an Allomancer into a Lifeless would the Allomancer still retain his Allowmantic abilities? Because a normal Lifeless retains the skills they had in their life so shouldn't an Allomancer or even a Feruchemist retain their abilities?

[alder24]

Allomacy and Feruchemy comes from Connection, which is a part of a person's spiritual web. This is lost when that person dies, his spirit is separated from his body. So making a Lifless out of his body won't make him an Allomancer or Feruchemist again, as those are lost. Lifeless don't even have the same identity as the person that lived before.

Spoiler

little wilson

Can a Mistborn turned into a Lifeless still use Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

*long-ish pause* Uh, no.

little wilson

So I would assume that is the same for a Feruchemist?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah if you-- taking some-- Yeah.  No they can't.

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by alder24

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

I reckon the ability is lost when the person dies, since it’s a spiritual quality. Maybe though. I’m not well versed in Awakening.

[therunner he/him]

Invested Arts are part of person's spiritweb, not physical body. Once you die, the physical body no longer has connection to that spiritweb.

What Awakening does is use the Breath as sort of 'fake' soul to make the body (or any physical object) act 'alive'. So since Breath does not bestow Allomancy/Feruchemy, Lifeless would not be allomancer or feruchemist.

[Newly Awakened]

So the same would apply for a Surgebinder with a Nahel bond? No more connection to the spren?

[alder24]

20 minutes ago, Newly Awakened said:

So the same would apply for a Surgebinder with a Nahel bond? No more connection to the spren?

Yes. All invested arts that are given via connection are lost after death.

Even Awakener who Awakened when alive and didn't retrieve his Breaths before death, then if he was made into a Lifeless, that Lifeless would be unable to retrieve those Breaths as he has a different identity than Awakener. But Returned would be able to do it.

The same goes with Feruchemist who was made into a Lifeless, that Lifeless can't access his metalminds at all (even if given medallions to gain ability), because he has a different identity than when he was alive.

Spoiler

Oudeis16

If Bob the Awakener Awakened fifty straw men to dance around, then died, then Returned as FormerBob the Appropriately Named, would FormerBob be able to reclaim the Breath from the straw men in the normal fashion (once he learned the "Your Breath to Mine" Command)?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. He has enough of his original Identity, and the spiritual connection would remain.

sonofstannis

What if he instead were reincarnated as a lifeless? Is there a way he could reclaim it then?

Brandon Sanderson

Lifeless have someone else's investiture replacing their own. (As opposed to Returned, who are augmented.) Depends on how much of them is left, and if they can achieve sapience again, but I'd say this is unlikely.

WeiryWriter

What if the Lifeless is Awakened with their own Breath? (i.e. they gave it away right before they died and the person they gave it to then used it in the Awakening)

Brandon Sanderson

This has happened already in the world, and it does help.

-Nayrb

Did this happen "on screen"?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 30, 2015)

 

[Quivil]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

WeiryWriter

What if the Lifeless is Awakened with their own Breath? (i.e. they gave it away right before they died and the person they gave it to then used it in the Awakening)

Brandon Sanderson

This has happened already in the world, and it does help.

Clod?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Tani

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Tani said:

Clod?

Possible, but unlikely. Clod was Arsteel, he was Returned, one of the Five Schoolars. So he couldn't be Awaken with his own Breath, as his Breath was the Divine Breath (unless he give his own Breath before Returning, and then reclaimed it and give it to somebody before being killed by Vasher, but that's just so complicated ). His increased level of self-awarenes likely comes from Breaths Vasher gave him right before killing him.

Spoiler

Joeh42

In Warbreaker, is Clod the Lifeless body of Arsteel? I like this idea because Arsteel would have had some Breaths within him when he died, as this is how Vashir defeated him and Denth, and this could help explain why he seems to be a little more self-aware than most Lifeless. Could you respond to this idea?

Brandon Sanderson

I confirmed in the Warbreaker annotations that Clod is Arsteel.

Clod is more self-aware than most Lifeless. There is something left of Arsteel within Clod. The Breaths that Vasher gave him when he killed him do have an effect on this.

Tor.com Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Jan. 10, 2011)