SodiumIsSalty he/him Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 I need to know if I'm missing something or if this just works. If someone were to be a Nicroburst Misting and Soulbearer Ferring would they not be able to gain infinite amounts of investiture? They could store some limited amount of investiture, eat the metal mind, and because of what we know regarding compounding, could end up with 10x the investiture they put in. Could they not then return the newly gained investiture into a new metal mind and repeat and therefore "farm" investiture. Furthermore does this not break the First Law of Investiture, "Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics.". And if it is not breaking this law would it just be taking more and more investiture from the Shards of Preservation and Ruin? What stops this person from taking all the investiture in the shard and effectively becoming the shard? I guess my question is do we know how exactly Nicrosil Compounders will work? 2
Sky Breaker Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 I think it might be storing your efficiency at a power so for example if you stored your ability to burn pewter then you’d become a weaker thug and when you tapped it you could be a better thug and if you could compound it you would be able to clap anyone
alder24 Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, SodiumIsSalty said: I need to know if I'm missing something or if this just works. If someone were to be a Nicroburst Misting and Soulbearer Ferring would they not be able to gain infinite amounts of investiture? They could store some limited amount of investiture, eat the metal mind, and because of what we know regarding compounding, could end up with 10x the investiture they put in. Could they not then return the newly gained investiture into a new metal mind and repeat and therefore "farm" investiture. Furthermore does this not break the First Law of Investiture, "Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics.". And if it is not breaking this law would it just be taking more and more investiture from the Shards of Preservation and Ruin? What stops this person from taking all the investiture in the shard and effectively becoming the shard? I guess my question is do we know how exactly Nicrosil Compounders will work? As far as we know, you don't store investiture in nicrosilmind, like Stormlight, what you store there is the ability to use investiture, the invested arts. You can store ability to use Feruchemical iron (that's what medallions do), Surgebinding, Sand Mastery, or Divine Breath. We don't know if you can store Stormlight or regular Breaths, so it's likely you can't compound investiture the way you think. Moreover we don't know what compounding nicrosil does. Does it create a copy of a power, so you have 2 separate abilities to be a Mistborn, or does it make it 2x more powerful, so you still have 1 ability to be a Mistborn but twice as powerful? We don't know that, and likely we won't know that till Mistborn era 3 or maybe even era 4. And mo, you can Ascend by compounding, too little investiture compared to a Shard, too much diminishing returns which waste attribute. Opening perpendicularity can be done, but becoming a Shard can't. Spoiler TheFulgid Could you Invest... Could you use a nicrosil metalmind to Invest the sort of Investiture enough that you could open a Perpendicularity up to the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson So, I'll just say it this way. Enough concentrated Investiture in one point is going to pierce the Realms, no matter what form it takes. TheFulgid ...So, it doesn't have to be a nicrosil metalmind. Brandon Sanderson No. TheFulgid Okay... But it could be? Brandon Sanderson Yes. That is theoretically possible. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Edited March 9, 2023 by alder24
Trusk'our he/him Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, SodiumIsSalty said: I need to know if I'm missing something or if this just works. If someone were to be a Nicroburst Misting and Soulbearer Ferring would they not be able to gain infinite amounts of investiture? They could store some limited amount of investiture, eat the metal mind, and because of what we know regarding compounding, could end up with 10x the investiture they put in. Could they not then return the newly gained investiture into a new metal mind and repeat and therefore "farm" investiture. Furthermore does this not break the First Law of Investiture, "Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics.". And if it is not breaking this law would it just be taking more and more investiture from the Shards of Preservation and Ruin? What stops this person from taking all the investiture in the shard and effectively becoming the shard? I guess my question is do we know how exactly Nicrosil Compounders will work? I doubt that you could amass enough Investiture to become a Shard (and that's assuming that no Vessel currently is holding the Shard in question). There are physical limits to what can be stored in a Metalmind, which mean that you probably couldn't ascend, even temporarily, unless you have a Metalmind the size of a large multi-million populated city. Also, when you Compound, you don't actually get 10x the Investiture you stored, you only get as much Investiture that you would normally get as an Allomancer of your power. Basically, if the flat rate of Allomantic burning gives you 10 units per hour of Investiture, then if you Compound, you get 10 units per hour of the Feruchemical attribute instead of the normal Allomantic one; so to speak, you're just hooking up your Feruchemical batteries to an Allomantic power generator. This is further complicated by the fact that different metals burn at different rates, and the faster the metal burns, the more Investiture drawn from Preservation (or Ruin, if you're accessing your Allomancy via Hemalurgic spikes). So Compounding a metal may cause it to burn at a different rate than what the Allomantic version would. Edited March 9, 2023 by Trusk'our 1
IlstrawberrySeed Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) On 3/9/2023 at 7:00 AM, Trusk'our said: I doubt that you could amass enough Investiture to become a Shard (and that's assuming that no Vessel currently is holding the Shard in question). There are physical limits to what can be stored in a Metalmind, which mean that you probably couldn't ascend, even temporarily, unless you have a Metalmind the size of a large multi-million populated city. Also, when you Compound, you don't actually get 10x the Investiture you stored, you only get as much Investiture that you would normally get as an Allomancer of your power. Basically, if the flat rate of Allomantic burning gives you 10 units per hour of Investiture, then if you Compound, you get 10 units per hour of the Feruchemical attribute instead of the normal Allomantic one; so to speak, you're just hooking up your Feruchemical batteries to an Allomantic power generator. This is further complicated by the fact that different metals burn at different rates, and the faster the metal burns, the more Investiture drawn from Preservation (or Ruin, if you're accessing your Allomancy via Hemalurgic spikes). So Compounding a metal may cause it to burn at a different rate than what the Allomantic version would. Actually, if you put in 1 IU, and get 9IU out, then your allomancy is 9 IU. Small diffrence, but it is important for some calculations. And you can get enough investiture to ascend if you compound using another shard's investiture, but at that point it isn't a single type of invetiture, so you don't ascend. Edited March 10, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed
Truthwatcher Aakash Posted September 19, 2023 Posted September 19, 2023 On 3/9/2023 at 10:48 AM, SodiumIsSalty said: I need to know if I'm missing something or if this just works. If someone were to be a Nicroburst Misting and Soulbearer Ferring would they not be able to gain infinite amounts of investiture? They could store some limited amount of investiture, eat the metal mind, and because of what we know regarding compounding, could end up with 10x the investiture they put in. Could they not then return the newly gained investiture into a new metal mind and repeat and therefore "farm" investiture. Furthermore does this not break the First Law of Investiture, "Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics.". And if it is not breaking this law would it just be taking more and more investiture from the Shards of Preservation and Ruin? What stops this person from taking all the investiture in the shard and effectively becoming the shard? I guess my question is do we know how exactly Nicrosil Compounders will work? When someone in cosmere is compounding they are not producing Investiture but it's more like they pull investiture from spritual realm by using their metalmind as a key. Metals acts as a key for pulling investiture from spritual realm and i think when the key have some latent investiture of it's own it is able to pull more investiture from the spritual realm. So the first law of thermodynamics holds. In cosmere the conservation of mass and energy as well as first law of thermodynamics are relevant. 1
Through The Living Grub He/Him Posted September 21, 2023 Posted September 21, 2023 On 3/9/2023 at 6:02 AM, alder24 said: We don't know if you can store Stormlight or regular Breaths, so it's likely you can't compound investiture the way you think. BoM spoilers Quote When Marasi held the bands she saw mist around her and could burn any metal. I think there were nicrosil minds storing the art itself and one storing the mist so you can fuel your allomancy
alder24 Posted September 21, 2023 Posted September 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Xiahida said: BoM spoilers Quote When Marasi held the bands she saw mist around her and could burn any metal. I think there were nicrosil minds storing the art itself and one storing the mist so you can fuel your allomancy No need for a spoiler warning for BoM. Secondly this was half a year ago, please do not revive old threads, it's against forum policies. Marasi couldn't just burn all metals until she stole vials of metals and drank them. Bands of Mourning are made out of all 16 metaminds. Each metalmind is drained separately - Marasi tapped so much speed that Wax noted later that the steelmind was almost empty. WoB: Spoiler Oversleep (paraphrased) I asked whether we could call the Bands of Mourning the Survivor's Spearhead and whether it did have all 16 basic metal metalminds. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He hesitated a little but eventually said yes, there were all 16 metalminds. Oversleep (paraphrased) I asked whether Marasi tapped all of them, because she would tap Kelsier's Identity and memories. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He said intentions are important and she didn't tap all of them. Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017) BoM ch 28: Quote Marasi clutched the spearhead in two hands. And tapped everything. Power flooded into her, lighting her up like an inferno. Snow hung motionless in the air. She stood up and reached to the belt of one of her captors, removing one of his vials of metal. She took them all, several from each guard, and drank them. She was tapping a metalmind, letting her move at a speed so fast that when she lifted her hand, she could briefly see the pocket of vacuum left behind. She smiled. Then she burned her metals. All of them. BoM ch 29: Quote His speed of body was nearly tapped out—Marasi must have used that in getting to him I was referring to multiple WoBs where Brandon RAFO questions about nicrosilminds storing Stormlight, Breaths etc, while abilities like Surgebinding or Allomancy or even a Divine Breath are confirmed to be stored in nicrosil. Therefore we don't know if you can simply store static or kinetic investiture in nicrosilminds, but right now all evidence points out that only abilities, not raw investiture, can be stored in nicrosil.. Spoiler kingbirdy (paraphrased) Could Feruchemical nicrosil be used to store other Invested abilities, such as a Returned Breath or the abilities of the Knights Radiant? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, that's possible. DragonCon 2016 (Sept. 4, 2016) Spoiler Necarion Could a double-nicrosil Twinborn compound Breath or Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson Uh, you’re getting a RAFO card on that. You're getting SUCH a RAFO card on that! Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016) Spoiler Questioner Would it be possible for someone to store Stormlight in a nicrosil metalmind? Brandon Sanderson I will RAFO that for now, but you're thinking the way I want you to be thinking. Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018) Spoiler Questioner Next up: can Feruchemical storage store stormlight? Brandon Sanderson You will find out exactly what it* does coming up Footnote: *Feruchemical nicrosil? Shadows of Self Portland signing (Oct. 10, 2015) Spoiler Cheese_Ninja One question, two parts: If a double nicrosil Twinborn started Compounding and storing Investiture in a nicrosilmind, could they do something cool by tapping a whole huge bunch at once? And since Scadrialians have both Ruin and Preservation in them, could they store both those qualities in a one nicrosilmind, or would it require two different ones? Brandon Sanderson Ha. All things regarding Investiture (particularly in regards to Feruchemy) are instant RAFOs at this point, I'm afraid. I've got to save SOME things for future books. /r/Fantasy_Bookclub Alloy of Law Q&A (Jan. 21, 2012) Spoiler Volratho (paraphrased) Humans on Scadrial have Investiture of both Preservation and Ruin inside of them. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. Volratho (paraphrased) Feruchemically, does storing Investiture in Nicrosil store this connection to Ruin/Preservation/Harmony? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) You are on the right track, and asking the right questions but RAFO. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)
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