Is Kelsier the Scadrial equivalent of a Fused?

[radren]

Sorry if this topic has already been discussed. I was thinking about Kelsier's physical form. I don't think he returned to his rotting corpse. However, Marasi describes him as resembling the statues of the Survivor. Hemalurgy is similar to the Fused's magic in that both require a physical object inside the body that holds investiture. Both require some sacrifice - taking a life to give power to another (or at the very least some part of a soul, as we learned in TLM and also Warbreaker). When a Fused takes over a body, they are able to physically transform it somewhat to resemble their true form. This mechanism could explain how Kelsier looks like Kelsier.

If Kelsier is a Fused, then whose body is he occupying? The actual Fused can only take over the body of a willing participant. Is that true on Scadrial? Is it Spook's body?

[lacrossedeamon]

Could be like a Fused but we don't know if it's necessary for the body to have been alive. Returned get their cognitive selves stapled back to their physical corpses. And they to can influence their appearance via Identity.

And Heralds seem to get a physical body created out of nothing?

Edited December 2, 2022 by lacrossedeamon

[Isilel]

4 hours ago, radren said:

If Kelsier is a Fused, then whose body is he occupying? The actual Fused can only take over the body of a willing participant. Is that true on Scadrial? Is it Spook's body?

It cannot be Spook's body, because we know from Allik that the Sovereign came to the south only a few years (a decade, I think), after the Catacendre. And from that copper metalmind that Wax viewed in BoM we know that the Sovereign was Kelsier. Spook ruled Elendel for a 100 years before stepping down, however.

Personally, I think that he is using his own bones and a mistwraith, but it might also be some random body, I guess. A survivorist fanatic? Though wouldn't it age in such a case?

[Proletariat]

I think it's definitely a Mistwraith he's created by giving it a special kind of blessing, and then devouring Kelsier's remains. Most kandra seem to be able to somewhat connect to the person whose body they've taken in an uncanny way, and in this case it's taken up to a million because Kelsier is literally a ghost of the body it's using. And if there weren't that connection, then I can't see how Kelsier could take over this body.

[+Child of Hodor]

Im not sure what he did to get the body could be mistwraith, fresh corpse or spiked himself into a living body killing the original person.  He's a cognitive shadow in a physical body as you note the Fused unique marble pattern comes with them when they inhabit a body. The Returned bodies in Warbreaker have a great deal of malleability as Vasher demonstrates. The Returned seem to get a body that fits what a majority of people think a god should look like, Vasher is able to change his body to what he thinks he should look like.  Maybe Kelsier's situation is allows for this malleability as well. 

On 12/2/2022 at 4:10 AM, Proletariat said:

I think it's definitely a Mistwraith he's created by giving it a special kind of blessing, and then devouring Kelsier's remains. Most kandra seem to be able to somewhat connect to the person whose body they've taken in an uncanny way, and in this case it's taken up to a million because Kelsier is literally a ghost of the body it's using. And if there weren't that connection, then I can't see how Kelsier could take over this body.

That makes a lot of sense. 

[ArchangelCaesar]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:14 AM, Child of Hodor said:

Im not sure what he did to get the body could be mistwraith, fresh corpse or spiked himself into a living body killing the original person.  He's a cognitive shadow in a physical body as you note the Fused unique marble pattern comes with them when they inhabit a body. The Returned bodies in Warbreaker have a great deal of malleability as Vasher demonstrates. The Returned seem to get a body that fits what a majority of people think a god should look like, Vasher is able to change his body to what he thinks he should look like.  Maybe Kelsier's situation is allows for this malleability as well. 

That makes a lot of sense. 

going off of your comments about the malleability of a body both Fused and Returned, he doesn't have to have a mistraith body to still look like Kelsier. I think that when a Cognitive Shadow is stapled to a body, the Identity of that shadow changes the body, kinda like a Soulstamp, as the body integrates itself with the spiritweb of the Cognitive Shadow. Thus, Vasher could be pulling some major Identity switcheroos with his Breath (somewhat like Hoid) and convincing his body to look how he wants it to look, similar to how healing works.

[Kitch]

Personally I don't think it's a mistwraith. I think it's closer to cognitive being manifesting in the physical realm, like Ishar was experimenting with on Roshar.  Basically the herald's already do this, which is why Kelsier is so interested in how they function 

[DiePie]

I would just like to point out that Kelsier's body being a mistwraith would be a good reason why he would only have access to steelpushing (as opposed to also having other allomantic powers via hemalurgy). He makes reference of it being an option midway through the book, despite us knowing that his his powers are limited via WoB. We know that he has a spike through the eye which serves to staple his soul back onto his body. So why not others?

Well we know that he doesn't trust Sazed, as he is worried about a potential Discord; though even if he wasn't worried about Sazed growing a neckbeard and not showering (that's a joke, btw) he would probably be too paranoid to give himself up to Sazed's potential control. So getting back to my original point: Humans can have 3 spikes and on the 4th one Sazed would have potential control, but Kandra can only have 1. Since Mistrwraiths are just Kandra without spikes I'd assume that the same would apply to Kelsier if he was a cognitive shadow spiked to a Mistwraith.

Edited December 9, 2022 by DiePie
Freudian slip, said "Kandra" instead of "Mistwraith"

[lacrossedeamon]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:33 PM, Kitch said:

Personally I don't think it's a mistwraith. I think it's closer to cognitive being manifesting in the physical realm, like Ishar was experimenting with on Roshar.  Basically the herald's already do this, which is why Kelsier is so interested in how they function 

If this were the case I don't think he'd need the spike.