theory Spoilers for SA5 Readings - Predictions!

[CognitiveShadow]

So, spoilers for the readings Brandon has done from SA5 (and all Cosmere) ahead. But my crack theory at the moment is : what if Kaladin becomes Odium’s Champion??

Spoiler

It’s crazy, I know. But hear me out! 

1. We see Kaladin growing even closer to Syl and depending on her to keep the darkness away. We also know how bad it was for Teft when his Spren was killed by the jerk face Moash. 

2. Wit has a very long and sad and serious conversation with Kaladin. He tells him that he will win by fighting but not fighting.

3. Kaladin references that he is scared of who he became after killing the Pursuer when dealing with the pain of Tefts death and everything else, thinks about how he drew upon a different power (likely voidlight)… could be foreshadowing that connection to Odium

I don’t want to put this out there in the universe for fear that it happens, but what if Syl is killed and the pain is just too much for Kal. And then he agrees to finally give up his pain to Odium. And then he faces Dalinar at the end… and they defeat Odium because he doesn’t fight. Kal sacrifices himself. And maybe it’s the next ideal, sacrificing yourself to protect others and such - could have some room for making him survive or ascend after trying to sacrifice himself or something, but ultimately the idea would be that finally instead of everyone he loves dying and only him being left, it gets reversed and he is able to protect those he cares about. At his own expense.

Thoughts? Sorry it’s a bit rambly, but it’s a new idea I had and I’m curious about what you all think.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Ookla the Shadow
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[The_Milkgod]

Interesting idea. But for the love of God please no. 

[CognitiveShadow]

3 minutes ago, The_Milkgod said:

Interesting idea. But for the love of God please no. 

I share your sentiment, hence the hesitancy to share the theory haha unfortunately it seems somewhat plausible in some ways…. Thankfully it is still a crack theory and there are others that make more sense to me but we will see.

[The_Milkgod]

Just now, Ookla the Shadow said:

I share your sentiment, hence the hesitancy to share the theory haha unfortunately it seems somewhat plausible in some ways…. Thankfully it is still a crack theory and there are others that make more sense to me but we will see.

It does seem plausible indeed, unfortunately. I hope it remains a crack theory lol.

[bmcclure7]

20 hours ago, Ookla the Shadow said:

So, spoilers for the readings Brandon has done from SA5 (and all Cosmere) ahead. But my crack theory at the moment is : what if Kaladin becomes Odium’s Champion??

  Hide contents

It’s crazy, I know. But hear me out! 

1. We see Kaladin growing even closer to Syl and depending on her to keep the darkness away. We also know how bad it was for Teft when his Spren was killed by the jerk face Moash. 

2. Wit has a very long and sad and serious conversation with Kaladin. He tells him that he will win by fighting but not fighting.

3. Kaladin references that he is scared of who he became after killing the Pursuer when dealing with the pain of Tefts death and everything else, thinks about how he drew upon a different power (likely voidlight)… could be foreshadowing that connection to Odium

I don’t want to put this out there in the universe for fear that it happens, but what if Syl is killed and the pain is just too much for Kal. And then he agrees to finally give up his pain to Odium. And then he faces Dalinar at the end… and they defeat Odium because he doesn’t fight. Kal sacrifices himself. And maybe it’s the next ideal, sacrificing yourself to protect others and such - could have some room for making him survive or ascend after trying to sacrifice himself or something, but ultimately the idea would be that finally instead of everyone he loves dying and only him being left, it gets reversed and he is able to protect those he cares about. At his own expense.

Thoughts? Sorry it’s a bit rambly, but it’s a new idea I had and I’m curious about what you all think.

 It does make sense in world. Out of world I don't see Brandon doing the same plot twice But you never know.

[Marabout]

If I have to read another book about Kaladin being mopey about every little thing wrong in his life and his past then I hope he Does die.

[CognitiveShadow]

33 minutes ago, Marabout said:

If I have to read another book about Kaladin being mopey about every little thing wrong in his life and his past then I hope he Does die.

Well we know that his depression isn't going to magically disappear (unless Odium takes it away maybe?). But I also think that this would be a very different read from previous books:

Kaladin starts out by being in a much better place, focuses more on the external issues than the internal ones for a time. Then stuff happens in shinovar, maybe Ishar kills Syl and somehow things are twisted a bit and confusing for him (like Ishar is aligned with Dalinar and kills Syl as part of his mad scientist stuff while trying to "fight" Odium). So Kaladin could conflate her death somewhat with the coalition and fighting against Odium. At that point we would definitely get the darkest point of his POV and I get the feeling you would want to skip that chapter @Marabout.

But then Odium shows up and offers to take away his pain - Kaladin says yes. From then on, he wouldn't actually be moping about. He would be more like Moash in the sense that he is without feeling. But as the time for the contest of champions comes nearer, he starts to try playing the flute without playing the flute or something. Which helps him in the moment of the fight realize that he needs to fight against odium but not fighting against dalinar. He accepts his pain back and sacrifices himself so that Odium is defeated (or maybe it's a bit of a stalemate situation because Dalinar also won't straight up kill Kaladin or something... so maybe that's tOdium's loophole that he foresaw. Maybe he knew that Kaladin and Dalinar would not fight each other? Gets him out of the bargain because Dalinar breaks his end of it?

In the meantime there will be all sorts of weird stuff with Shallan and the Unmade and whatnot to prep for the back 5 books.

@bmcclure7 which plot are you referring to in this case? I'm not following. Do you mean Kelsier and how he sort of sacrificed himself?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Ookla the Shadow
added response

[bmcclure7]

24 minutes ago, Ookla the Shadow said:

Well we know that his depression isn't going to magically disappear (unless Odium takes it away maybe?). But I also think that this would be a very different read from previous books:

Kaladin starts out by being in a much better place, focuses more on the external issues than the internal ones for a time. Then stuff happens in shinovar, maybe Ishar kills Syl and somehow things are twisted a bit and confusing for him (like Ishar is aligned with Dalinar and kills Syl as part of his mad scientist stuff while trying to "fight" Odium). So Kaladin could conflate her death somewhat with the coalition and fighting against Odium. At that point we would definitely get the darkest point of his POV and I get the feeling you would want to skip that chapter @Marabout.

But then Odium shows up and offers to take away his pain - Kaladin says yes. From then on, he wouldn't actually be moping about. He would be more like Moash in the sense that he is without feeling. But as the time for the contest of champions comes nearer, he starts to try playing the flute without playing the flute or something. Which helps him in the moment of the fight realize that he needs to fight against odium but not fighting against dalinar. He accepts his pain back and sacrifices himself so that Odium is defeated (or maybe it's a bit of a stalemate situation because Dalinar also won't straight up kill Kaladin or something... so maybe that's tOdium's loophole that he foresaw. Maybe he knew that Kaladin and Dalinar would not fight each other? Gets him out of the bargain because Dalinar breaks his end of it?

In the meantime there will be all sorts of weird stuff with Shallan and the Unmade and whatnot to prep for the back 5 books.

@bmcclure7 which plot are you referring to in this case? I'm not following. Do you mean Kelsier and how he sort of sacrificed himself?

 No I mean the part where Kaliden is odium's champion.   He almost became his champion in rhythm of war. But he managed to overcome it and grow and say his 4th ideal instead. I don't see him retreating that plot point again but again anything is possible. 

[CognitiveShadow]

8 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 No I mean the part where Kaliden is odium's champion.   He almost became his champion in rhythm of war. But he managed to overcome it and grow and say his 4th ideal instead. I don't see him retreating that plot point again but again anything is possible. 

Oh ok I got it, yeah that’s a very good point. Definitely seems like there will be some more addressing the glowing yellow and red eyes stuff that he had going on though so that kind of opens the door to go that route. But yeah I agree that it might be too similar to what he already showed Kaladin shutting down 

[duladen]

Good point, we’ve seen Odium try to make Dalinar his champion in Oathbringer then push for Kaladin in Rhythm of War. Perhaps Shallan is the new target. Though it probably doesn’t make sense for T-Odium to continue R-Odium’s machinations.

[CognitiveShadow]

1 hour ago, duladen said:

Good point, we’ve seen Odium try to make Dalinar his champion in Oathbringer then push for Kaladin in Rhythm of War. Perhaps Shallan is the new target. Though it probably doesn’t make sense for T-Odium to continue R-Odium’s machinations.

Yeah it’s tough to know what T-Odiums goals are. I got the vibe from his POV that he was considering R-Odiums overall plan and decided that there was still a way to make it happen. Which makes me think that his overall goal short term is to break free of Roshar, or at least get someone like Dalinar as his representative to go around the cosmere until he can be free.