The Lies of Thaidakar

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

So ghostbloods have been actually interacting with him in the flesh spike... And don't realise he is powerless?

They are pretty dumb

He isn't powerless. He still has extended perception, the knowledge that comes with being a Sliver and what he learned in Shadesmar.

[RedBlue]

6 hours ago, Ati16 said:

However if he could find lerasium he could just go and do some allomancy in front of them and nobody would suspect anything.

Kelsier’s epilogue says that lerasium won’t work on Kelsier. He wants lerasium to make regular people into mistborn, so that they can be ready to defend Scadrial next time an aggressive outside force shows up. He’s looking for alternative methods to give himself his powers back.

But yeah, I do wonder why he thought it was a good idea to lie to his new crew about his abilities. It seems like that could backfire on him really easily, and he has no good out. 

[lacrossedeamon]

He's Kelsier, man. There's always gotta be another secret.

[DiePie]

First of all, doesn't he have a steel spike? Perhaps that's giving him the ability to steelpush as well as tacking his soul onto the rest of him. Idk why he wouldn't have the rest of his powers, but he could be trying to avoid having too many spikes as a precaution in case Sazed flips from Harmony to Discord. Or perhaps there's something going on with his cognitive shadow only being able to use one spike, which is the one that's holding him to his body.

Second of all, he could just be lying to Sazed. Sazed all but lies to him in this scene, and you can tell that Kelsier doesn't trust Sazed.

[CognitiveShadow]

3 hours ago, DiePie said:

First of all, doesn't he have a steel spike? Perhaps that's giving him the ability to steelpush as well as tacking his soul onto the rest of him. Idk why he wouldn't have the rest of his powers, but he could be trying to avoid having too many spikes as a precaution in case Sazed flips from Harmony to Discord. Or perhaps there's something going on with his cognitive shadow only being able to use one spike, which is the one that's holding him to his body.

Second of all, he could just be lying to Sazed. Sazed all but lies to him in this scene, and you can tell that Kelsier doesn't trust Sazed.

1. Kelsier’s spike only holds his body and soul together. That is explained clearly in the epilogue. Also, Brandon confirmed that the GBs think Kelsier is still an allomancer but he is not. Fair point about the number of spikes, but it seems like hemelurgy has been less than successful for him in his earlier testing. It’s been commonly theorized that he has a body now because he stapled his soul to a mist wraith and ate his own bones, and that’s why he doesn’t have his previous powers. I tend to lean towards that. But if that’s the case I also think Lerasium would work for him and Sazed is lying. There’s a wob somewhere about lerasium working on kandra.

2. Finally, pretty sure Sazed knows more about Kelsiers current condition and options than Kelsier does himself. It’s more likely that Sazed is withholding information on how Kelsier could regain his abilities. I don’t think it’s worth Kelsier’s time and effort to try lying to Sazed. Not an easy thing to do to a god.

[+Oltux72]

On 4.12.2022 at 0:04 AM, RedBlue said:

Kelsier’s epilogue says that lerasium won’t work on Kelsier.

It says that Harmony claims that. Harmony's relationship with truth on such matters is ... strained.

[RedBlue]

37 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

It says that Harmony claims that. Harmony's relationship with truth on such matters is ... strained.

Fair

[DiePie]

14 hours ago, Ookla the Shadow said:

Kelsier’s spike only holds his body and soul together. That is explained clearly in the epilogue. Also, Brandon confirmed that the GBs think Kelsier is still an allomancer but he is not.

The epilogue actually says the opposite:

Quote

Kelsier didn't see quite as he once had. One eye saw as a mortal, the other as an immortal. His spiked eye not only pinned his soul to his body, but gave him a constant overlay of blue, letting him see how a being like Sazed did.

(page 484 in the hardcover)

Considering that he has a (steel, though now that I think about it, idk if that's been explicitly stated) spike in the same place that gives the ability to steelpush, and also gives him the ability to see the same way an inquisitor spiked in the same place sees, I think it's safe to say Kelsier's also gives the ability to steelpush.

I would also like to see exactly what Brandon said because if he said Mistborn then he's def not, but "being an allomancer" might not include gaining access through hemalurgy. I couldn't find it in the Arcanum so if I'm just flat-out wrong about that then please tell me.

[CognitiveShadow]

44 minutes ago, DiePie said:

The epilogue actually says the opposite:

Quote

Kelsier didn't see quite as he once had. One eye saw as a mortal, the other as an immortal. His spiked eye not only pinned his soul to his body, but gave him a constant overlay of blue, letting him see how a being like Sazed did.

Pretty sure in Kelsier's POV he was dreaming about being able to be able to steelpush and fly through the mists again and have the powers that he used to but no longer can. And it gave the impression (to me at least) that it had been like that ever since he died. Also, he talks to Sazed about trying to get Lerasium and is told that it won't work for him (which I think is a lie). I'll give you that it does more than just pin his body - it also gives him some steelsight. But he clearly can't actually push on it.

44 minutes ago, DiePie said:

Considering that he has a (steel, though now that I think about it, idk if that's been explicitly stated) spike in the same place that gives the ability to steelpush, and also gives him the ability to see the same way an inquisitor spiked in the same place sees, I think it's safe to say Kelsier's also gives the ability to steelpush.

I would also like to see exactly what Brandon said because if he said Mistborn then he's def not, but "being an allomancer" might not include gaining access through hemalurgy. I couldn't find it in the Arcanum so if I'm just flat-out wrong about that then please tell me.

Check out the spoiler stream in the link below - this question is answered at 1:22:00

Quote

 

"When Kelsier said in The Lost Metal that he couldn't steel push over water, do the Ghostbloods think that Kelsier has his allomantic powers, and is he lying to them?"

Brandon: "Uh, yes they think he has allomantic powers still."

 

And in Kelsier's discussion with Sazed, we get the following from his POV after he says that he wants to democratize the powers, take it from the few and give it to the many. (I pulled it from the audiobook so not sure what page its on)

Quote

"Lerasium would have been the easiest way, but it seemed he would have to keep hunting. That gave him hope for himself, though. Lerasium wouldn't have worked on him and Hemelurgy had proven ineffective on what he had become. It held his soul and body together, but not more. There had to be another way. He had hope... ever, he had hope. Hope he could control the metals again, hope he would be able to soar again, hope he'd be able to touch the metals he could see in the world all around him."

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Ookla the Shadow
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