Marabout Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 Ever wonder if Elhokar would have bonded his Spren if Kaladin hadn’t shown up in the palace? Elhokar says he was seeing shadows but Kaladin scared them away. I assume he was seeing symbol heads like Shallan was early on. Then Kaladin shows up and they hide from Syl. So Kaladin May have inadvertently prevented Elhokar from bonding his cryptic. 3
Mr. Misting he/him Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 19 hours ago, Marabout said: Ever wonder if Elhokar would have bonded his Spren if Kaladin hadn’t shown up in the palace? Elhokar says he was seeing shadows but Kaladin scared them away. I assume he was seeing symbol heads like Shallan was early on. Then Kaladin shows up and they hide from Syl. So Kaladin May have inadvertently prevented Elhokar from bonding his cryptic. I don't really think that Kaladin prevented Elhokar from becoming a Knight Radiant. I've always thought that the cryptic seeking to bond Elhokar, was repelled by Kaladin because Kaladin is against most all lightweaver ideas. His moral philosophies are just so incompatible with those of a cryptic. I always thought the cryptic didn't like Kaladin, not that Kaladin was actively preventing Elhokar's bond. Also Kaladin was the person who sent Elhokar on his journey to become a radiant. We can see how Kaladin shows Elhokar what true leadership is like. Elhokar certainly would not have started to question his rule, and began attracting a spren without Kaladin's influence. We even see Elhokar being on the cusp of bond, with Kaladin in the same storming room. He was about to become radiant and Kaladin certainly wasn't stopping him in any way. Without Moash stabbing him, Elhokar certainly would have completed the oath. 4
Rg2045 Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mr. Misting said: I don't really think that Kaladin prevented Elhokar from becoming a Knight Radiant. I've always thought that the cryptic seeking to bond Elhokar, was repelled by Kaladin because Kaladin is against most all lightweaver ideas. His moral philosophies are just so incompatible with those of a cryptic. I always thought the cryptic didn't like Kaladin, not that Kaladin was actively preventing Elhokar's bond. Also Kaladin was the person who sent Elhokar on his journey to become a radiant. We can see how Kaladin shows Elhokar what true leadership is like. Elhokar certainly would not have started to question his rule, and began attracting a spren without Kaladin's influence. We even see Elhokar being on the cusp of bond, with Kaladin in the same storming room. He was about to become radiant and Kaladin certainly wasn't stopping him in any way. Without Moash stabbing him, Elhokar certainly would have completed the oath. I don’t think it’s repelled by kaladin himself (never seen pattern repeled by kaladin) maybe design was breaking a rule because we see that other cryptics are looking for radiants in groups. i would like to say that I feel kaladin helped elohkar progress to say his oaths. Only after meeting kaladin does he start to change. To the point of asking kaladin if he thought him a bad king and begging him for advice. Only after kaladin refuses him does he drink himself to a drunken stupor. And all of oathbringer is him realizing that he’s a bad king and that the world needs better then him. So I think we really agree on this point
Treamayne Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Marabout said: Ever wonder if Elhokar would have bonded his Spren if Kaladin hadn’t shown up in the palace? Elhokar says he was seeing shadows but Kaladin scared them away. I assume he was seeing symbol heads like Shallan was early on. Then Kaladin shows up and they hide from Syl. So Kaladin May have inadvertently prevented Elhokar from bonding his cryptic. There may be some element of the Cryptics watching Elhokar were hiding from Syl when Kaladin was around. But if the King was still eventually chosen by Design, then she obviously didn't drive the Cryptics away entirely. Also, Elhokar had not yet said the First ideal (much less said it and meant it) so he couldn't have been too close to forming the bond. Edited November 13, 2022 by Treamayne 1
ThatRedHead717 Posted November 19, 2022 Posted November 19, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 10:59 PM, Marabout said: Elhokar says he was seeing shadows but Kaladin scared them away. Then Kaladin shows up and they hide from Syl. I don't think that's quite how it works. Radiants can usually swear oaths independent of what their spren is doing. When Kaladin swore his third ideal while protecting Elokhar from Moash in the war camps, Syl was nowhere close to him. She was being held back by the Stormfather and only once he had sworn the oath could she fully return to him. When Shallon has sworn her oaths, Pattern is pretty much always there but that doesn't mean it is a rule. He just happens to be the one who can draw those truths out for her. Either way, I don't think the cryptic moving a few feet/yards/rooms away would have made any significant difference in Elokhar's ability to swear his ideal. The only way in which Kal is responsible for the King not swearing his ideal is in failing to protect him from Moash. 1
Lhyllianna they/them Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 Early in WoK, Elhokar mumbles about seeing figures in mirrors and his peripheral vision that we later learn through Shallan and Jasnah to be Cryptics. Seeing them is what makes him so paranoid of being assassinated. His fears seem to dissipate around the time Kaladin becomes his bodyguard and Moash facilitates the damage to the balcony railing. It is important to note, though, that Wit is a Lightweaver, and exactly when he spoke his oaths is unclear (to my knowledge anyway; someone has probably figured it out though). When he first meets Kaladin and gives him the flute, he subtly uses Lightweaving on the flames of his small campfire while playing The Wandersail for Kaladin. I think that's the first time anyone has a lengthy, earnest(?) conversation with Wit, and I think the first record we have of him using his Lightweaver abilities. I'm sure the reason he startles when he first meets Shallan at Middlefest 1170 is because he can see Cryptics around her - it's possible there's another reason though. I don't recall how long after this Sadeas' betrayal happens, but I think the events are relatively close. I am wondering if Wit leaves in part because his spren prompts him too, and because he realises that the Cryptics are what's causing Elhokar's paranoia. So Elhokar, if Moash had allowed him to finish speaking the First Ideal in Kholinar, could have been a Lightweaver. Or it could have simply been that the Cryptics were attracted to Wit instead, and Elhokar is just sensitive to the presence of spren.
Treamayne Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Lhyllianna said: It is important to note, though, that Wit is a Lightweaver, and exactly when he spoke his oaths is unclear (to my knowledge anyway; someone has probably figured it out though). Please note that what Wit is doing here is Lightweaving - but not the way that Radiants do so. There are many aspects to Cosmere Magic that are universal, and in Future Cosmere some terms will become much more broadly defined. WoBs and References (spoiler for Elantris): Spoiler Raoden uses Lightweaving in Elantris to make his Kaloo illusions - or the AonDor version of Lightweaving. Quote Questioner In the chapter about the Wandersail, when Hoid is telling the story, is he using Lightweaving? Brandon Sanderson It is not completely natural what you are seeing. Questioner Is the smoke in any way related to Rosharan magic systems? Brandon Sanderson In any way related, yes? I'm good at wiggling out of these. It's a part RAFO, it's not completely natural. I'll leave it at that. I can't say too much, otherwise I'll give away all my secrets. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Quote Questioner So Hoid, was he considered a Lightweaver pre-Shattering? Brandon Sanderson Yes, that would be an appropriate term. There are lots of different terms that would also be appropriate. Questioner But was it basically the same thing? Brandon Sanderson Well, no Stormlight. No spren. So, not a Knight Radiant. But, similar magic. But you've also seen Elantris magic do this. So there are-- there are certain things that-- I'll just stop there. Orem signing (Dec. 21, 2017) Quote Questioner Can you tell me something about Hoid that nobody really knows? Brandon Sanderson So, I get asked this enough that I've run out of the easy facts. So usually, I have to RAFO that, just because rattling them off is really hard to do, the random facts ones. I used to be able to 'em, like early, I'm like, "This, that." But now, what do I say that won't be a spoiler? That's not known by anybody? Questioner Let me ask you this. Is Hoid basically collecting these different Investitures from all the different planets? Brandon Sanderson You have definitely seen him trying to do this on multiple worlds. You have seen evidence of him using Breaths and Allomancy, and you have seen him... do something like Lightweaving that he calls Lightweaving, and you have also seen him try to get AonDor and fail. That's in the extra bonus scene in Elantris. The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018) Quote Snipexe Does Hoid's Lightweaving produce light? Brandon Sanderson *After a very long pause* He has used different types of Lightweaving, or he has access to different types of Lightweaving. Snipexe Does the Yolish Lightweaving produce light? Brandon Sanderson Yolish Lightweaving could produce light. Orem Signing (March 16, 2019) Spoilers for Oathbringer/RoW - WOB: Spoiler Argent In the Syl interlude in Rhythm of War, she is speaking with Dalinar about his powers and the things those powers have done in the past. And what she says is "a Bondsmith bound other Surges". First of all, what other Surges? Brandon Sanderson One potential interpretation for you on this, remember they use Surge and spren sometimes interchangeably in-world. Just making you aware of that. Argent Yeah I'm aware of that. Bound other Surges.... Argent Then the term Bondsmith. To me it seems like she's talking about Ishar and the Ashyn stuff. So would they use Bondsmith to describe him in that place? Brandon Sanderson That might be what she's talking about. I'm not guaranteeing it. Argent And that would be maybe the power of Connection, the way Lightweaving is the power of illusion? Brandon Sanderson So one other thing to keep aware of in the cosmere - for instance they call "Lightweaving" any illusion-based magic working on the same fundamentals. And so you could argue - and people will use it that way in-world - that Bondsmithing is both an order [of Knights Radiant] and a power that exists outside the order. Brandon Sanderson Yes. And for instance, there were not Elsecallers to get people between Ashyn and Roshar, but on Roshar they would explain what happened there as Elsecalling. Does that make sense? Argent I mean, as much as these things make sense, yes. JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021) 35 minutes ago, Lhyllianna said: exactly when he spoke his oaths is unclear I don't know how far into Stormlight Archive you have read, so I'll spoiler this just in case (Oathbringer): Spoiler Wit/Hoid speaks his Radiant Oaths in the Oathbringer Epilogue when he finds Design in the Palace. 35 minutes ago, Lhyllianna said: I'm sure the reason he startles when he first meets Shallan at Middlefest 1170 is because he can see Cryptics around her - it's possible there's another reason though. It is implied during that flashback (Mistborn Spoilers): Spoiler That Hoid sensed Shallan's investiture using Allomantic Seeking - he is shown to add powdered metals to his drink when speaking to her Father. It is implied he used Soothings and/or Rioting on both Lin and Shallan - but then is expressly shown to be burning Pewter when he walks away (since it's hard to show the internal metals in foreshadowing from a different point of view) WoR Ch 45: Quote A man she did not know sat next to Father with a cup of chilled water in one hand. Tall, slender, and blue-eyed, he had deep black hair without a hint of impurity and wore clothing the same shade. He glanced at Shallan as she stepped up into the box. The man started, dropping his cup to the table. He caught it with a swift lunge, keeping it from tipping over, then turned to stare at her with a slack jaw. <snip> Shallan turned back to the newcomer. She caught, with a subtle movement, the man slipping something from his coat pocket and moving it up toward the drinks. A shock coursed through Shallan. She raised a hand. Poison— The newcomer covertly dumped the pouch’s contents into his own drink, then raised it to his lips, gulping down the powder. What had it been? <snip> “My brother,” she said. “He is in Alethkar.” Alethkar? “Why?” “Because that is where he feels he is needed, of course. If I see him again, I will give him word of you.” The messenger walked away on light feet, his steps smooth, almost like moves in a dance. Shallan watched him go, the deep things within her settling again, returning to the forgotten parts of her mind. She realized she had not even asked the man his name. 35 minutes ago, Lhyllianna said: I am wondering if Wit leaves in part because his spren prompts him too, We know Wit left for Kholinar, because we see him there in the Epilogue. However, he has other methods of knowing when he needs to be somewhere. WoB: Spoiler Quote Mi'chelle How does Hoid know where to go when? Brandon Sanderson He has his ways! He may be capable of a little bit of foreseeing of certain events, not what’s going to happen, but he may need to be in a certain place in a certain time. Alloy of Law release party (Nov. 7, 2011) Quote Xyrd (paraphrased) You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, and usually without knowing why. Xyrd (paraphrased) Is chromium involved in that? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes. Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016) Quote Paladin Brewer (paraphrased) Why did Hoid not take both beads of lerasium? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Hoid has an innate ability to know where he needs to be and what he needs to do. Calamity San Antonio signing (Feb. 26, 2016) Quote Questioner Does Hoid ever show up somewhere, stand around for awhile, realize that there isn't a novel-worthy plot going on, and leave? Brandon Sanderson *laughs* Yes, Hoid gets around a lot and that has happened a couple of times. He does not know everything. Words of Radiance San Diego signing (March 4, 2014) 35 minutes ago, Lhyllianna said: So Elhokar, if Moash had allowed him to finish speaking the First Ideal in Kholinar, could have been a Lightweaver. Or it could have simply been that the Cryptics were attracted to Wit instead, and Elhokar is just sensitive to the presence of spren. The Cryptics were investigating Elhokar for a potential Bond. WoBs: Spoiler Quote Zantis Was Elhokar going to be a Windrunner squire or was he going to be a different Order? Brandon Sanderson He was actually going to be a Lightweaver. Zantis Interesting. Brandon Sanderson Yes. And some interesting story with him because--here's a little tidbit for you... In the original draft that I wrote in 2002 I pushed him far enough that Dalinar had to kill him. It came to blows. And I never quite liked how that turned out, so in the 2010 version we had a different path for Elhokar. But he's been doomed from a long time ago, poor guy. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) Quote Questioner If Elhokar had finished saying those words, what Order would he have been? Brandon Sanderson Lightweaver. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Quote coltonx9 Could you tell me what his [Elhokar] first truth would have been? Brandon Sanderson It would have been to admit the thing that he knows, which is that he's a bad king. Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018) Hope that helps Edited November 24, 2024 by Treamayne Clarity 1
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