Fabrials, polestones, surgebinding, and at long last an explanation on body focuses

[Frustration he/him]

So, as many of you know I have been preparing for Roshar vs. Scadrial post LM. And as part of that I have been rereading the SA, and paying very close attention. And I believe I have found something that changes our understanding of surge fabrials entirely.

It all started when I read WoK page 91 where Shallan says that 9/10 soulcasters are only attuned to one or two essence, with only 1/10 being able to do any transformation This immediately got me thinking because you know 10. And I realized that is also the ratio of transformation to surges(big shock I know). And given that we know surge fabrials are made from spren that means that only a single spren type can make soulcasters that produce any essence. Which is why that number comes out, as the real 8/9 fraction(as bondsmith spren didn't form soulcaster) is close enough to 9/10 they calculate it as the same.

And as I looked through RoW I had confirmation that the spren type that makes up soulcasters is never confirmed, because it's all of them. And since Lin Davar's soulcaster stopped working when it's gems were misaligned that means that the shape of the metal, not the spren used determines what surge the fabrial uses, and gemstones are only used as a power source associated with a particular type of spren. Each spren having a particular surge that they can use any gem for, and on any other they can potentially use the ones next to them. 

I'm unsure how the spren and surges would relate, with Bondsmith missing, would Honorspren fabrials be able to use any application of Gravitation, or Adhesion? I don't know.

 

Going from this conclusion and reading through the text I realized that this holds up. Viztim's alerter that tracks the shin is made from Heliodor, which is assosiated with flesh. The gemstones used to open doors in Urithiru are Topaz, associated with stone. The sheild fabrial uses sapphire associated with air. And The suppresion fabrial uses garnets which are associated with blood, which is where stormlight and voidlight are held in their users.

 

But I wasn't done, if this worked out for Soulcasting, I should be able to make this work for other surges as well: Enter regrowth fabrials.

When we see regrowth fabrials being used, we only have one detailed description, with Dalinar's arm being healed. That particular fabrial had a Heliodor and a Topaz(WoK 303), and healed the flesh on Dalinar's arm. The body focus's associated with those gems are flesh and bone, the most likely injuries to occur, and the only ones the knight healed. When Nale cured Szeth I bet that fabrial had a diamond and a ruby(eyes and soul). I also noticed that almost all of the body focus's had an interesting reaction to shardblades.

 

But why stop there? There are other surges, so I went through them and the ones I can completely define are Gravitation, which beyond any doubt of my mind is connected to the ten gas giants, and Illumination, which a WoB I found linked with specific colors.

Spoiler

Argent

Hey Karen, I have a question I hope you can confirm for the Stormlight fans. 

What are the exact gemstone types Rosharans use in their currency? In The Way of Kings Shallan suggests that only nine out of the ten Polestones are actually used in spheres (or is this wrong?), and while eight of those are accounted for in the books, we don't know whether the last one is a smokestone or a heliodor. Is this something you can and are willing to confirm for us?

Karen Ahlstrom

Here's what I have on my wiki page. I'm pretty sure it was written by Brandon before I started to work on things.

Gemstones

◆ Sapphire: blue (deep)

◆ Zircon: blue (light)

◆ Ruby: red (deep)

◆ Amethyst & Garnet: red (light)

◆ Topaz: yellow (deep)

◆ Heliodor: yellow (light)

◆ Emerald: green (deep)

◆ Smokestone: grayscale (deep)

◆ Diamond: grayscale (light)

Karen Ahlstrom

Elsewhere I found this list that shows the spheres from highest to lowest value. It says that smokestone coins are very rare.

Values: Highest - 50 (250, 1000)

◆ Stone: Emerald

◆ Color: Deep green

◆ Essence: Pulp

 

Values: Prime Pair - 25 (125, 500)

◆ Stone: Amethyst

◆ Color: Pale violet

◆ Essence: Mineral (Metals/claws)

 

◆ Stone: Sapphire (skymark)

◆ Color: Deep Blue

◆ Essence: Vapor

 

Values: Middle Weight - 10 (50, 200)

◆ Stone: Zircon

◆ Color: Pale blue

◆ Essence: Blood (Water-based liquids)

 

◆ Stone: Ruby (firemark)

◆ Color: Deep red

◆ Essence: Spark (Fire/Soul)

 

◆ Stone: Smokestone (Uncommon as a coin)

◆ Color: Translucent

◆ Essence: Smoke

 

Values: Less Weight - 5 (25, 100)

◆ Stone: Topaz

◆ Color: Pale orange

◆ Essence: Talus (Stone/Bone)

 

◆ Stone: Garnet

◆ Color: Deep violet (Bloodmarks)

◆ Essence: Flesh

 

◆ Stone: Heliodor

◆ Color: Light yellow

◆ Essence: (Sinew)

 

Cheapest 1 (5, 20)

◆ Stone: Diamond (Clear chip/mark/broam)

◆ Color: Transparent

◆ Essence: Glass (Crystal/Eyes)

Argent

One thing I am noticing is that the essences don't entirely match what's in the Ars Arcanum of the books.

Karen Ahlstrom

Yeah, AA is correct and what we base things on. Like I said, these are probably written by Brandon a long time ago when he was just world building.

Footnote: These are from an email exchange between Argent and Karen Ahlstrom. Parts of the emails were slightly reformatted or erased in the interest of clarity, brevity, and privacy.
Miscellaneous 2018 (Jan. 1, 2018)

Other than that I'm afraid I don't think we understand enough to know, but we can try to fill in some of the gaps, but here's my proposed chart

Spoiler

	Adhesion	Gravitation	Division	Abrasion	Progression	Illumination	Transformation	Transportation	Cohesion	Tension
Sapphire		Jes			Inhalation	Deep blue	Air
Smokestone		Nan			Exhalation	Grayscale deep	Smoke
Ruby		Chach	Fire		Soul	Red deep	Fire
Diamond		Vev			Eyes	Grayscale light	Crystal
Emerald		Palah			Hair	Green deep	Grain
Garnet		Shash			Blood	Red light	Blood
Zircon		Beteb			Oil	Blue light	Oil
Amethyst		Kak			Nails	Red light	Metal		Metal	Metal
Topaz		Tanat			Bones	Yellow deep	Stone		Stone	Stone
Heliodor		Ishi			Flesh	Yellow light	Meat

 

There is only one thing I can find that causes this theory problems, the soulcaster Dalinar uses at the Rift can make oil and grain, but blood isn't mentioned(OB 742). This could be chalked up to Sadeas not mentioning blood because its not useful, but Navani says that no Alethi soulcaster can make blood(OB 1020). I suppose this could be an error, or there are additional rules I don't understand.

Do you have any other clues on how to fill out the chart?

Edited November 11, 2022 by Frustration

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

I imagine we'll have to wait for more surge Gabriel usage, but an in depth analysis of collected data could reveal patterns. You could try enlisting cryptics, or Id be willing to help however I can, when I'm not busy.

Good work by the way. I'm impressed by your efforts once again.

[Treamayne]

23 hours ago, Frustration said:

There is only one thing I can find that causes this theory problems, the soulcaster Dalinar uses at the Rift can make oil and grain, but blood isn't mentioned(OB 742). This could be chalked up to Sadeas not mentioning blood because its not useful, but Navani says that no Alethi soulcaster can make blood(OB 1020). I suppose this could be an error, or there are additional rules I don't understand.

Well, the coppermind notes:

Spoiler

When Soulcasting, the fabrial draws Stormlight from the corresponding gemstone. What Essences the Soulcaster can use is referred to as the Soulcaster's modes.^[21] This being said, Soulcasters capable of using all three modes are rare, and a vast majority can only utilize one.^[3]

So, even if the spren forming the soulcaster would have covered all Oil, Blood and Grain; it might not have access to the Blood mode - or just not have a Garnet in one of the three spots (if, perhaps, during the fight at the Rift it had 2 Emeralds and 1 Zircon). Also, note exactly what Navani says (OB Ch 109):

Spoiler

Garnet? Let’s see … Emeralds for grain, that was the most important, and heliodors for flesh. They raised animals for their gemhearts to provide those two. He was pretty sure diamonds made quartz, and … storms, he didn’t know much about the others. Topaz made stone. They’d needed those for the bunkers on the Shattered Plains.

“Garnets make blood,” Navani said. “We don’t have any Soulcasters that use them.”

“Blood? That sounds useless.”

“Well, scientifically, we think Soulcasters were able to use garnets to make any liquid that was soluble in water, as opposed to oil-based … Your eyes are crossing.”

“Sorry.” He felt at the crystals.

That could mean:

• No Soulcasters make Blood (and other soluble liquids)
• The Alethi Nation does not have any Garnet Soulcasters
• The Alethi at the Shattered Plains did not have them
• The forces at Urithiru did not have them

Also, the way she says "were able to use garnets to make any liquid that was soluble in water" implies that they might not know how to use Garnets in a soulcaster - so the one at the rift might have been able to make use of a Garnet, if the user knew how to utilize that mode. I would imagine actually using such a Fabrial in the same way that Jasnah soulcast Shallan's blood to remove the poison would be very difficult and require a different-than-normal technique and command (since you are only soulcasting a portion of a body rather than turning object A into substance B).

Edited November 12, 2022 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Frustration he/him]

5 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Well, the coppermind notes:

  Reveal hidden contents

When Soulcasting, the fabrial draws Stormlight from the corresponding gemstone. What Essences the Soulcaster can use is referred to as the Soulcaster's modes.^[21] This being said, Soulcasters capable of using all three modes are rare, and a vast majority can only utilize one.^[3]

So, even if the spren forming the soulcaster would have covered all Oil, Blood and Grain; it might not have access to the Blood mode - or just not have a Garnet in one of the three spots (if, perhaps, during the fight at the Rift it had 2 Emeralds and 1 Zircon).

So, I'm not sure I understand, what would prevent the fabrial from using an essence the spren is attuned to? 

10 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Also, note exactly what Navani says (OB Ch 109):

  Reveal hidden contents

Garnet? Let’s see … Emeralds for grain, that was the most important, and heliodors for flesh. They raised animals for their gemhearts to provide those two. He was pretty sure diamonds made quartz, and … storms, he didn’t know much about the others. Topaz made stone. They’d needed those for the bunkers on the Shattered Plains.

“Garnets make blood,” Navani said. “We don’t have any Soulcasters that use them.”

“Blood? That sounds useless.”

“Well, scientifically, we think Soulcasters were able to use garnets to make any liquid that was soluble in water, as opposed to oil-based … Your eyes are crossing.”

“Sorry.” He felt at the crystals.

That could mean:

• No Soulcasters make Blood (and other soluble liquids)
• The Alethi Nation does not have any Garnet Soulcasters
• The Alethi at the Shattered Plains did not have them
• The forces at Urithiru did not have them

Also, the way she says "were able to use garnets to make any liquid that was soluble in water" implies that they might not know how to use Garnets in a soulcaster - so the one at the rift might have been able to make use of a Garnet, if the user knew how to utilize that mode. I would imagine actually using such a Fabrial in the same way that Jasnah soulcast Shallan's blood to remove the poison would be very difficult and require a different-than-normal technique and command (since you are only soulcasting a portion of a body rather than turning object A into substance B).

But they could turn stones into blood like what Shallan does to the goblet on accident.

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

So, I'm not sure I understand, what would prevent the fabrial from using an essence the spren is attuned to? 

Exactly, I'm not sure I understand either. If all (most) fabrial soulcasters use three gems, but can only access one or two of the three modes; then there is something we may be missing. Most likely a factor of Intent by the Spren when it assumed the soulcaster form (which begs the question - if you could communicate with the Spren that forms the soulcaster, could you convince it to make another Mode active).

Alternatively, is it possible that a soulcaster could be more than one spren working together? If there are three - then if all three spren working together are the same type of spren, you get a soulcaster with one mode (but really good at that mode) - two types (say two Lifespren for Emerald and one Logicspren* for Zircon) you would have a primary mode and a secondary mode. A soulcaster than has 1 ea of three different spren might, theoretically, access all three modes - but finding three different cousin spren that will work together to make a single fabrial might be difficult - which may be why three-mode soulcasters are unknown (or hidden by those who know).

 

 

*Based on the guess that Elsecaller Shardplate is formed of Logicspren

[Frustration he/him]

2 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Exactly, I'm not sure I understand either. If all (most) fabrial soulcasters use three gems, but can only access one or two of the three modes; then there is something we may be missing. Most likely a factor of Intent by the Spren when it assumed the soulcaster form (which begs the question - if you could communicate with the Spren that forms the soulcaster, could you convince it to make another Mode active).

Alternatively, is it possible that a soulcaster could be more than one spren working together? If there are three - then if all three spren working together are the same type of spren, you get a soulcaster with one mode (but really good at that mode) - two types (say two Lifespren for Emerald and one Logicspren* for Zircon) you would have a primary mode and a secondary mode. A soulcaster than has 1 ea of three different spren might, theoretically, access all three modes - but finding three different cousin spren that will work together to make a single fabrial might be difficult - which may be why three-mode soulcasters are unknown (or hidden by those who know).

 

 

*Based on the guess that Elsecaller Shardplate is formed of Logicspren

Soulcasters are described as containing only a single radiant level spren

Quote

"Soulcasters manifested as small unresponsive spren, hovering with their eyes closed. So Soulcasters did have a captured spren. A Radiant spren judging by their shape." RoW 132.

So I don't think that works out.

[Treamayne]

17 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Soulcasters are described as containing only a single radiant level spren

So I don't think that works out.

Well, a Spren that Navani thought might seem to be a Radiant Spren. But that leads to another question. Is there a "slumbering Syl body" in the cognitive anytime Kal uses his Shard Spear? If no - then it could be one or more spren in the Physical Realm in the shape of the Soulcaster working with/controlled by a slumbering Radiant spren in the cognitive.

Also, would you expect that only an Inkspren or Cryptic could make a Soulcaster (since they have access to the surge of Transformation)? If yes, then how do they also attune to essences other than Oil and Blood? Or could an Honorspren become a Soulcaster attuned to Air?

If there are spren-as-metal making up the physical metal of the soulcaster, then it could still be as I said above - just with the "Radiant Spren in control" aspect this implies.

 

Any way it goes, we still have pieces of the puzzle missing but I think you are onto something that, if not exactly correct, is at least close and parallel to correct.

[Frustration he/him]

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Also, would you expect that only an Inkspren or Cryptic could make a Soulcaster (since they have access to the surge of Transformation)? If yes, then how do they also attune to essences other than Oil and Blood? Or could an Honorspren become a Soulcaster attuned to Air?

So this is something I didn't explain well in the op, but I think any spren could form a soulcaster attuned to their specific essence, and maybe some nearby. So Honorspren for air. While either an inkspren or Cryptic(but only one of them) could form a soulcaster attuned to all essences. 

Quote

Any way it goes, we still have pieces of the puzzle missing but I think you are onto something that, if not exactly correct, is at least close and parallel to correct.

Thanks

Edited November 12, 2022 by Frustration

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

I’m not sure I agree with your theory about spren being made into any Surge fabrial but then being picky about the gems used. The way I figured it, is that a Radiant Order is is responsible for making the fabrials (probably Willshaper and/or Bondsmith) and their ability determines the versatility of the fabrial: a third or fourth Ideal Radiant could only make a limited fabrial but at the fifth Ideal they could make a universal one. I think the spren can only become a fabrial of one of their Surges, although I wonder if the two different spren would create different expressions, since the Oathgates have two spren and two different versions of Transportation.

That said, I like your table and the idea of different fabrials interpreting gems differently, but I would like to know how you imagine the gas giants translating into a fabrial ability. For Transportation, I would suggest the gems might play the very simple role of pairing the fabrials. Since there are ten pairs of Oathgates and ten gemstones, I imagine each Oathgates has a large gem at its heart; a different one in each Urithiru gate and a corresponding one in each capital gate, creating linked pairs.

Regarding the other fabrials you mentioned: 
The shield fabrial probably has a diamond soulcaster as its output, and while the sapphire inputs do represent air, they also represent inhalation and highstorms (through Windrunner), which fits with being a Stormlight intake.
For the suppression fabrial, I think it may actually be a division fabrial and the garnet in this case represents spren. It didn’t affect Stormlight itself, or Surgebinding since Moash had no problems with the Honourblade. The Radiants were physically fine but fabrials stopped working which more or less rules out blood. The only things affected as far as I can tell were Honour-aligned spren, including the Cognitive aspects of Radiants. They were banished from the Physical Realm (separated from it, you could say) taking the Surgebinding they grant with them. If it’s a Division fabrial that goes to explain why Adhesion is resistant, since it directly counteracts.

[Frustration he/him]

9 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

I’m not sure I agree with your theory about spren being made into any Surge fabrial but then being picky about the gems used. The way I figured it, is that a Radiant Order is is responsible for making the fabrials (probably Willshaper and/or Bondsmith) and their ability determines the versatility of the fabrial: a third or fourth Ideal Radiant could only make a limited fabrial but at the fifth Ideal they could make a universal one. I think the spren can only become a fabrial of one of their Surges, although I wonder if the two different spren would create different expressions, since the Oathgates have two spren and two different versions of Transportation.

So if only a single type of spren can form fabrials, why can some only make wood, while others can only make metal?

9 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

 I would like to know how you imagine the gas giants translating into a fabrial ability. 

The lashings would be towards that particular gas giant.

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

On 15/11/2022 at 2:07 AM, Frustration said:

So if only a single type of spren can form fabrials, why can some only make wood, while others can only make metal?

Perhaps they purposefully made them that way; if they needed more of a certain type, they could set it to that as they were creating it.

 

A fabrial lashing to the gas giants seems a little… abstruse?, to me. It would lash in a radically different direction depending on the time of day, some of them would be very similar for possibly years at a time, and all the directions would be more or less on the orbital plane (basically east-west-up-down). It could instead be relative directions: eight compass points, up and down. Or, if it is the planets, it could be different gravitational strengths. Just some ideas.