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Posted (edited)

Rampant speculation about the science bits of TLM previews guided a bit by how the Navani parts of RoW went.

 

I think Wax's experiment is "polarizing" the ettmetal, and the explosion is caused by this changing ettmetal's intent creating Discordium which is even more explosive than Harmonium.

It's possible that leaves behind a bit of atium, which is the "lost metal", because Sazed is unbalanced from having some Preservation invested in the people from Scadrial,

 

Bits that started the speculation, mostly that it seems the cosmere science behind how Harmonium works is inspired by magnets.

VenDell reinforcing that Harmonium can't be split because Sazed holds both shards, like how if you take a bar magnet that has two poles and if you split it in half is still a magnet -

Spoiler

 

“It cannot be divided,” VenDell said. “Not so long as Harmony remains Harmony. I’ve explained this.”

 

Steris trailed over with her clipboard, and they shared a look. It was true; harmonium wasn’t actually an alloy. Yet Harmony held both Ruin and Preservation—so somehow this metal was both atium and lerasium, blended in a way that defied ordinary scientific explanation".

 

 

Wax saying Trellium's interactions with ettmetal and spikes reminds him of magnetism. I'm including this because it's thematically related if not strictly related, but could be important for Intent.

Spoiler

“It’s more like magnetism. The trellium spike responds to other sources of Investiture in the way one magnet responds to another one. 

 

The description of the polarization of ettmetal, it is becoming something else. This is likely just referring to the atium and lerasium appearance, but I think the fact that you can visibly distinguish the atium and lerasium bits is key to why it's changing to Discordium, the powers aren't working together.

 

Spoiler

 

"Harmonium was pliable, more so when heated. When softened like this, it seemed to react differently to the air—no longer as volatile. As if… as if it were becoming something else.

 

This specialized machine continued to deliver electric current through the grips at the sides"

 

 

When the ettmetal is being separated by the Trellium, the separation is more than physical. It's like Navani and creating antilight, where intent matters. It isn't creating atium and lerasium though because Sazed holds both shards, but the intent is that they stop existing together, working together.

Spoiler

 

Watch,” Wax said. With his tinted goggles, it was probably easier to see—but after a few moments the metals started to rearrange. The glob of harmonium on the left side began to glow a blue-white. The one on the right adopted a stranger air, growing silvery and reflective. It almost seemed liquid, like mercury—the surface incredibly smooth.

“Is that…?” Marasi asked.

“No,” Wax said. “If you cut it in half right now, when the metals cool you’ll just have two bits of harmonium. Yet in this state, the metals almost separate. You can see the left bit taking on aspects of lerasium. The bead on the right… that’s how atium was described.”

“It always looks like it wants to divide,” Steris said. “That it’s arranging itself to do so.”

“Ruin and Preservation,” Marasi whispered. “Atium and lerasium.”

“I think that’s the reason harmonium is so unstable,” Wax explained. “Harmony has trouble acting, right? He’s mentioned it before: his two aspects work against one another, leaving him indecisive, impotent.”

“He’s merely in equilibrium,” VenDell said. “Equal parts the need to protect and the need to let things decay.”

 

Therefore it becomes Discordium, the powers are fighting. Inherently unstable, immediate explosion and the metals vaporize.

From HoA when Sazed takes up both shards

Spoiler

The powers were opposites. As he drew them in, they threatened to annihilate each other. And yet, because he was of one mind on how to use them, he could keep them separate. They could touch without destroying each other, if he willed it. For these two powers had been used to create all things. If they fought, they destroyed. If they were used together, they created.

Words of Brandon about Discord, which is also referenced in HoA prophecy. I also think it's interesting that the powers fighting destroys, which Ruin wants to do anyways. It's a weird parallel to the imbalance of Preservation/Ruin to the Scadrial and Sazed.

"His name shall be Discord, yet they shall love him for it.” They'd love him for it if it could be used to make great weapons that can stand up against the anti-investiture nukes in era 4.

 

One additional note:

The red ring around the planet, typically associated with corruption of intent, could be Autonomy/Trell's actions on Harmony, which has been speculated by many others, and which could be paralleled when the Trellium spike is used to force apart Harmonium.

And then unhinged cremposting:

The main conflict is two societies from the northern hemisphere of the planet, and the other is literally from the south pole (MAGNETS!) Also the well of ascension used to be at the geographic and magnetic North Pole, and Rashek moved the well and the magnetic north pole to Luthadel.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Shallan's Ward

While Sazed holds Preservation and Ruin, could his intent change from Harmony to Discord?

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible

 

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/370/#e11676

 

Spoiler

 

Questioner

Last time you said that his name, if it wasn’t Harmony, it would be something else. Is it Discord?

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

This is relevant.

 

 

Questioner

It is relevant?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

Footnote: The questioner is referring to this exchange.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6/#e344Hu

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited by drunkenbotanist
Forgot to add something
Posted
5 hours ago, drunkenbotanist said:

Rampant speculation about the science bits of TLM previews guided a bit by how the Navani parts of RoW went.

 

I think Wax's experiment is "polarizing" the ettmetal, and the explosion is caused by this changing ettmetal's intent creating Discordium which is even more explosive than Harmonium.

It's possible that leaves behind a bit of atium, which is the "lost metal", because Sazed is unbalanced from having some Preservation invested in the people from Scadrial,

 

Bits that started the speculation, mostly that it seems the cosmere science behind how Harmonium works is inspired by magnets.

VenDell reinforcing that Harmonium can't be split because Sazed holds both shards, like how if you take a bar magnet that has two poles and if you split it in half is still a magnet -

  Reveal hidden contents

 

“It cannot be divided,” VenDell said. “Not so long as Harmony remains Harmony. I’ve explained this.”

 

Steris trailed over with her clipboard, and they shared a look. It was true; harmonium wasn’t actually an alloy. Yet Harmony held both Ruin and Preservation—so somehow this metal was both atium and lerasium, blended in a way that defied ordinary scientific explanation".

 

 

Wax saying Trellium's interactions with ettmetal and spikes reminds him of magnetism. I'm including this because it's thematically related if not strictly related, but could be important for Intent.

  Reveal hidden contents

“It’s more like magnetism. The trellium spike responds to other sources of Investiture in the way one magnet responds to another one. 

 

The description of the polarization of ettmetal, it is becoming something else. This is likely just referring to the atium and lerasium appearance, but I think the fact that you can visibly distinguish the atium and lerasium bits is key to why it's changing to Discordium, the powers aren't working together.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

"Harmonium was pliable, more so when heated. When softened like this, it seemed to react differently to the air—no longer as volatile. As if… as if it were becoming something else.

 

This specialized machine continued to deliver electric current through the grips at the sides"

 

 

When the ettmetal is being separated by the Trellium, the separation is more than physical. It's like Navani and creating antilight, where intent matters. It isn't creating atium and lerasium though because Sazed holds both shards, but the intent is that they stop existing together, working together.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Watch,” Wax said. With his tinted goggles, it was probably easier to see—but after a few moments the metals started to rearrange. The glob of harmonium on the left side began to glow a blue-white. The one on the right adopted a stranger air, growing silvery and reflective. It almost seemed liquid, like mercury—the surface incredibly smooth.

“Is that…?” Marasi asked.

“No,” Wax said. “If you cut it in half right now, when the metals cool you’ll just have two bits of harmonium. Yet in this state, the metals almost separate. You can see the left bit taking on aspects of lerasium. The bead on the right… that’s how atium was described.”

“It always looks like it wants to divide,” Steris said. “That it’s arranging itself to do so.”

“Ruin and Preservation,” Marasi whispered. “Atium and lerasium.”

“I think that’s the reason harmonium is so unstable,” Wax explained. “Harmony has trouble acting, right? He’s mentioned it before: his two aspects work against one another, leaving him indecisive, impotent.”

“He’s merely in equilibrium,” VenDell said. “Equal parts the need to protect and the need to let things decay.”

 

Therefore it becomes Discordium, the powers are fighting. Inherently unstable, immediate explosion and the metals vaporize.

From HoA when Sazed takes up both shards

  Reveal hidden contents

The powers were opposites. As he drew them in, they threatened to annihilate each other. And yet, because he was of one mind on how to use them, he could keep them separate. They could touch without destroying each other, if he willed it. For these two powers had been used to create all things. If they fought, they destroyed. If they were used together, they created.

Words of Brandon about Discord, which is also referenced in HoA prophecy. I also think it's interesting that the powers fighting destroys, which Ruin wants to do anyways. It's a weird parallel to the imbalance of Preservation/Ruin to the Scadrial and Sazed.

"His name shall be Discord, yet they shall love him for it.” They'd love him for it if it could be used to make great weapons that can stand up against the anti-investiture nukes in era 4.

 

One additional note:

The red ring around the planet, typically associated with corruption of intent, could be Autonomy/Trell's actions on Harmony, which has been speculated by many others, and which could be paralleled when the Trellium spike is used to force apart Harmonium.

And then unhinged cremposting:

The main conflict is two societies from the northern hemisphere of the planet, and the other is literally from the south pole (MAGNETS!) Also the well of ascension used to be at the geographic and magnetic North Pole, and Rashek moved the well and the magnetic north pole to Luthadel.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

Shallan's Ward

While Sazed holds Preservation and Ruin, could his intent change from Harmony to Discord?

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible

 

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/370/#e11676

 

  Hide contents

 

Questioner

Last time you said that his name, if it wasn’t Harmony, it would be something else. Is it Discord?

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

This is relevant.

 

 

Questioner

It is relevant?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

Footnote: The questioner is referring to this exchange.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6/#e344Hu

 

  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

This sounds very possible.

Posted (edited)

What if Sazed invited Autonomy to send an avatar to Scadrial to aid in creating his own avatar to better deal with the dichotomy of his Shard? Trell is the avatar of Harmony, acting as Discord. Trellium is Autonomy's Godmetal, used by Autonomy's avatar to facilitate the separation between Harmony and his created avatar, something Harmony wouldn't be able to do on his own. 

Probably a little convoluted, but better than the entire series being predicated on an attack on Scadrial by Autonomy.

 

Edited by Leuthie
Posted
On 11/10/2022 at 0:19 PM, Leuthie said:

What if Sazed invited Autonomy to send an avatar to Scadrial to aid in creating his own avatar to better deal with the dichotomy of his Shard? Trell is the avatar of Harmony, acting as Discord. Trellium is Autonomy's Godmetal, used by Autonomy's avatar to facilitate the separation between Harmony and his created avatar, something Harmony wouldn't be able to do on his own. 

Probably a little convoluted, but better than the entire series being predicated on an attack on Scadrial by Autonomy.

 

Is Atium invested enough that if left alone for a very long period of time it would gain sentience on its own?

Posted
2 hours ago, dbulick said:

Is Atium invested enough that if left alone for a very long period of time it would gain sentience on its own?

It is a godmetal, so it’s literally the manifestation of Ruin (the shard) in the physical realm. It’s basically pure investiture. I could see a storyline where Harmony accidentally created an avatar that is hell bent on ruining and destroying the world. But I think it’s more likely that Trell is autonomy. Would be weird for Harmony to not see that happening with the excess investiture

Posted
8 hours ago, dbulick said:

Is Atium invested enough that if left alone for a very long period of time it would gain sentience on its own?

Then Trellium would just be Atium, and Harmony would know what it was.

Posted
1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Then Trellium would just be Atium, and Harmony would know what it was.

Agreed, or maybe it was corrupted by Odium or something but still I feel like Harmony would know that

Posted
12 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Agreed, or maybe it was corrupted by Odium or something but still I feel like Harmony would know that

Yes, a vessel will always be aware when they form an avatar. 

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