How did the messenger that spoke to Shallan know about “talking spren”?

[Munazir]

No spoilers for rhythm of war 

I’m rereading WoR and in a flashback chapter Shallan’s father is talking to a man who does a lot of weird stuff:

he tried to put something in her fathers drink 

he was startled when he saw Shallan for no reason 

he asked her stuff like have you heard spren talking or do spheres go dun around you

[hitkay]

It's revealed in chapter 55 of WoR that the messenger was Wit.

[teknopathetic he/him]

24 minutes ago, Munazir said:

No spoilers for rhythm of war 

I’m rereading WoR and in a flashback chapter Shallan’s father is talking to a man who does a lot of weird stuff:

he tried to put something in her fathers drink 

he was startled when he saw Shallan for no reason 

he asked her stuff like have you heard spren talking or do spheres go dun around you

No Rhythm of War Spoilers Ahead:

The question of how Hoid knew child-Shallan had talked to spren is extremely interesting. Hoid does use allomancy from Mistobron and has access to breaths  from Warbreaker, and other off world magic, so the question is not really "how" he saw anything, but what there even was to see about Shallan at the festival. 

Hoid also knows she faces an unnatural darkness in her home, so what is that all about? Is that something he could sense about Shallan, or something he knew from Shallan's eldest brother?

Shallan did not have an active bond to a spren at the time she met Messenger Hoid, so what did Hoid see? She doesn't bond Pattern until WoK so she shouldn't have an active bond at that time. There still isn't a great explanation for what Hoid saw, but he may have been able to see her childhood broken bond or seen the Spren that were hovering around Shallan before she went and bonded again in TWoK. But still, that isn't entirely clear. Hoid seemed VERY surprised to see what he saw. 

My theory was that Hoid could see that Shallan was Chanarach's child or parthenogenetic offspring.  It would mean that meaning that Hoid recognized Chanarach in Shallan, but that is not confirmed or anything. 

Rhythm of War does give a potential answer, but it is far far from clear. It is unclear how any new lore from that book would mean Hoid saw something about Shallan. It certainly is possible, but unclear. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Honorspring]

2 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

No Rhythm of War Spoilers Ahead:

The question of how Hoid knew child-Shallan had talked to spren is extremely interesting. We learn a few things in Rhythm of War, but they do not give us a solid answer of what Hoid could have "seen/felt". Hoid also knows she faces an unnatural darkness in her home, so what is that all about? Is that something he could sense about Shallan, or something he knew from Shallan's eldest brother?

Shallan did not have an active bond to a spren at the time she met Messenger Hoid, so what did Hoid see? Rhythm of War does give a potential answer, but it is far far from clear. Basically, there still isn't a great explanation for what Hoid saw, but he may have been able to see broken bond potentially or seen the spren that were hovering around Shallan before she went and bonded again in TWoK. 

My theory was that Hoid could see that Shallan was Chanarach's child/cutting meaning that Hoid recognized Chanarach, but that is not confirmed or anything. 

Warbreaker spoilers:

In The Way of Kings, Wit makes a comment to Kaladin while playing his flute into the echoing chasms, "This is so much easier with perfect pitch". That is an ability gained on Nalthis at the second Heightening with 200 Breaths. The first Heightening grants aura recognition, the ability to sense the amount of investiture someone has, including invisible people like spren. So he probably saw a cryptic hovering around Shallan, and maybe he could also sense Odious investiture too, residuals from whatever is affecting her home that clung to her and her father. Or her father himself was invested with Odious investiture

[teknopathetic he/him]

5 minutes ago, Honorspring said:

Warbreaker spoilers:

In The Way of Kings, Wit makes a comment to Kaladin while playing his flute into the echoing chasms, "This is so much easier with perfect pitch". That is an ability gained on Nalthis at the second Heightening with 200 Breaths. The first Heightening grants aura recognition, the ability to sense the amount of investiture someone has, including invisible people like spren. So he probably saw a cryptic hovering around Shallan, and maybe he could also sense Odious investiture too, residuals from whatever is affecting her home that clung to her and her father. Or her father himself was invested with Odious investiture

Yes, totally possible he saw the cognitive realm spren watching Shallan or could feel something of Odium corrupting her soul in some way. it is also possible breaking a bond as a child left some sort of mark on Shallan. Or perhaps he could sense the shard blade she had as a child? So unclear.

We have no idea if Hoid can tell this with everyone though. Like, not all Spren are visible and there seems to be a huge range of which spren are detectable and how "loud" certain surges are. For example, Shallan could use her magic in occupied Kolinar because her magic was much quieter, but a Windrunner would immediately be detected. Would Hoid have a harder time detecting a Lightweaver than a Windrunner? And what about the fact Shallan was no longer actively bonded to a Cryptic?

And we have no idea if any magic systems can detect Spren in the Cognitive realm. Can Hoid dip his head into the Cognitive like a Lightweaver can? Could an Allomancer detect a Spren in the Cognitive if there is no active bond? 

Edited November 1, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Munazir]

26 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

No Rhythm of War Spoilers Ahead:

The question of how Hoid knew child-Shallan had talked to spren is extremely interesting. Hoid does use allomancy from Mistobron and has access to breaths  from Warbreaker, and other off world magic, so the question is not really "how" he saw anything, but what there even was to see about Shallan at the festival. 

Hoid also knows she faces an unnatural darkness in her home, so what is that all about? Is that something he could sense about Shallan, or something he knew from Shallan's eldest brother?

Shallan did not have an active bond to a spren at the time she met Messenger Hoid, so what did Hoid see? She doesn't bond Pattern until WoK so she shouldn't have an active bond at that time. There still isn't a great explanation for what Hoid saw, but he may have been able to see her childhood broken bond or seen the Spren that were hovering around Shallan before she went and bonded again in TWoK. But still, that isn't entirely clear. Hoid seemed VERY surprised to see what he saw. 

My theory was that Hoid could see that Shallan was Chanarach's child or parthenogenetic offspring.  It would mean that meaning that Hoid recognized Chanarach in Shallan, but that is not confirmed or anything. 

Rhythm of War does give a potential answer, but it is far far from clear. It is unclear how any new lore from that book would mean Hoid saw something about Shallan. It certainly is possible, but unclear. 

IT WAS HOID??!? What? That makes so much more sense 

[Munazir]

27 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Chanarach

Not sure what this is? Another cosmere character. Sometimes I regret starting with Stormlight

[teknopathetic he/him]

4 minutes ago, Munazir said:

Not sure what this is? Another cosmere character. Sometimes I regret starting with Stormlight

Chanarach is a red-headed Herald. Here is a link to the Shallan is the child of a herald theory.

This theory came out before Rhythm of war, but it has been updated to include information from Rhythm of War. 

DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT READ RHYTHM OF WAR

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by teknopathetic

[offer]

28 minutes ago, Munazir said:

No spoilers for rhythm of war 

I’m rereading WoR and in a flashback chapter Shallan’s father is talking to a man who does a lot of weird stuff:

he tried to put something in her fathers drink 

he was startled when he saw Shallan for no reason 

he asked her stuff like have you heard spren talking or do spheres go dun around you

This man is acctually wit (also known as Hoid) ,you can see Shallan recognizing him later in WoR when they meet.

He does know a lot more then most other people on roshar - this is because he is a worldhopper with knowledge of a lot of magic systems in the entire cosmere (he appears in most other cosmere books as well).