Ghostblood Theory #16729438

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I return from my slumber beneath the mountain to plague you all with unwanted and unwarranted speculation!

(Spoilers up to and including Rhythm of War and the entire lesser Mistborn Trilogy).

There's always another secret.  The simplest explanation is, for the Cosmere, often unlikely to be the truth.  Thus, speculation should tend to the far-fetched, if only for the sake of being interesting.

I propose that The Ghostbloods are much more accurately described as a South Scadrian intelligence agency sent to destabilize other words than as a criminal organization seeking a non-metaphorical power monopoly.  Furthermore, I propose that their aims are essentially Preservationist in nature, rather than Ruinous (though their methods may be ruinous).

 

With its lamentable corruption into Harmony, the only true legacy of Preservation is Scadrial itself.  With the loss of Ruin, the only genuine threat to Scadrial is other worlds, and as in many things, the greatest dangers to a world are discovery and innovation (Anyone who doubts this should consider what happened to the Dinosaurs when the comet hit, or what happened to the comet itself... when worlds collide, worlds collide, and one or both are destroyed.  Contact is contamination, contamination is destruction, destruction is ruin).  The next greatest danger to the worlds of the Cosmere is the shard Odium, currently quarantined in the Roshar system (to those who doubt that innovation is the greater threat, consider that it was the curious mortal Navani Kholin, rather than the shard Odium or one of its Fused, who discovered how to permanently kill spren.  To those who doubt that discovery is the greater threat, consider what the discovery by humans of Roshar and how to get there meant for the native Parshendi, or what would happen if Odium were to discover a way to escape its prison).

The Rosharan system represents an undeniable and existential danger to the rest of the Cosmere.  Its vast and easily accessible sources of Investiture alone would make it the epicenter of cross-system contamination as Worldhoppers would inevitably seek to exploit it.  Such power, for the sake of preserving all else that is, must be controlled, must be seized.  Establishing a non-metaphorical power monopoly is the best way to prevent anyone else from uncontrolled, unauthorized, unsafe-in-the-long-run, irresponsible use of investiture.  Controlling the Oathgates, Urithiru, and the Perpendicularities is the best way to keep Roshar as the quarantine it ought to be, rather than the crossroads it might become.  Odium, regardless of its bearer, is likely to stay contained so long as no clever little monkey figures out the wrong trick...

Yeah, so long as J. Kholin and N. Kholin breathe, it's only a matter of time before the "wrong trick" is figured out and Odium is set free.  Those of Scadrial, of all people, know what happens when an evil shard is set free from its prison.  To prevent more catastrophes such as what happened to Sel, any true follower of Preservation* would find themselves with the same objectives as the Ghostbloods.  Add to this Thaidakar's rather hands-off style of leadership, and the tendencies of those-organizations-sent-by-authority-to-destabilize-other-places-in-order-to-serve-the-interests-of-the-homeland, and it stops being a mystery why monsters like Mraize get in positions of influence and power in the Ghostbloods.

 

TLDR; The Ghostbloods aren't an Investiture Cartel, they're the South Scadrial CIA... which is honestly scarier, and probably worse.

 

*as in Preservation, rather than Harmony

Edited October 22, 2022 by Aliroz-The-Confused
Typographical Error

[The First Gem]

Interesting idea. They probably are still an investiture cartel tho.

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I think that might, to some extent, be one of the fronts to disguise their true intentions.

[The First Gem]

Maybe the investitiure cartel idea is for the benefit. Like if they know they can make the first investure ring and then they know what investitiure is leaving what. 

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I'm not sure what you mean by that? I guess being able to track the movement of investiture is important to finding and shutting down the routes by which it is transported, but if I'm interpreting "the first investiture ring" right, such a thing seems counter to the end goal of Roshar as an eternal prison (or, if necessary, a tomb) for Odium.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

21 hours ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that? I guess being able to track the movement of investiture is important to finding and shutting down the routes by which it is transported, but if I'm interpreting "the first investiture ring" right, such a thing seems counter to the end goal of Roshar as an eternal prison (or, if necessary, a tomb) for Odium.

This has actually been an idea in my head cannon and alternate universe for MAG adventures for a while.  The idea that Odium is the next threat to all other worlds... there is a reason so many groups and individuals are being placed there.  I would imagine every other shard gains benefit of Odium being locked away (whether for their own self preservation or to have a clear lane for their own sinister plans).  

I also have believed for a while that the magic systems are designed to make Roshar a defensive target of other planets... whoever controls Roshar will control a Cosmere wide economy (this an Nalthian biochromatic breaths).  

The metallic arts and biochroma work so well off planet for those groups that they are set up perfectly to be offensive or forward moving invading groups compared to the Rosharan turtle that is a radiant army.  

For writing and plot purposes it is inevitable that all of these groups working on their own will disrupt eachothers plans... but ultimately it will be each individual groups own fault when they get to their final threads.   Especially if future sight is involved!   (Just like every episode of Thats so Raven it is the fight to avoid a terrible future that will set off the dominos to ensure that that future comes to pass).  

 

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

20 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The metallic arts and biochroma work so well off planet for those groups that they are set up perfectly to be offensive or forward moving invading groups compared to the Rosharan turtle that is a radiant army.  

Oh, dang, you're right!  The significant powers on Roshar are incredibly well-suited to defend against external attack... so the best strategy to weaken that turtle would start while it's still developing in the egg.  In fiction, and likely in history, there are fortresses which were never taken by siege or attack, but fell to internal scheming and treachery.

These early stages of the next era of the Knights Radiant are absolutely crucial in this regard*... perhaps Gavilar was right to say that Thaidakar was too late.

*Not to mention that the stronger the Kholin-aligned side gets, the more difficult it becomes to stop their scholars from innovating and discovering.  If, as my cousin predicts (and I agree with her), the next book or two in the Stormlight Archive will contain a/the genocide of the spren, (much of) it will be Navani's fault, and who knows what they'll figure out next...  Yeah, things are going to get hairy.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Oh, dang, you're right!  The significant powers on Roshar are incredibly well-suited to defend against external attack... so the best strategy to weaken that turtle would start while it's still developing in the egg.  In fiction, and likely in history, there are fortresses which were never taken by siege or attack, but fell to internal scheming and treachery.

These early stages of the next era of the Knights Radiant are absolutely crucial in this regard*... perhaps Gavilar was right to say that Thaidakar was too late.

*Not to mention that the stronger the Kholin-aligned side gets, the more difficult it becomes to stop their scholars from innovating and discovering.  If, as my cousin predicts (and I agree with her), the next book or two in the Stormlight Archive will contain a/the genocide of the spren, (much of) it will be Navani's fault, and who knows what they'll figure out next...  Yeah, things are going to get hairy.

From a preservation stance for Scadrial and other systems stopping the desolation and keeping odium contained should be the #1 goal.  Likely their interference is what will start everything down that path anyways.  

I heard one theory that Taln never broke.  That it was Chana who was killed by her daughter (a special lightweaver) that actually broke and started the last desolation.  That a certain lightweavers final truth may be that she brought upon the world the desolation.  

I believe the Ghostbloods were already in kahoots with that family and possibly had a hand in starting the desolation as well by pushing the parties into the path that ended with Shallan killing her mother, the real Herold that broke.  

If this is the case then Kals efforts to keep Odium from having an escape would have directly led to the final desolation starting.  

Of course there are other theories that say the desolation was started by some other event even outside of Taln not being able to hold back the hordes of fused.   Spren were starting to make bonds before Shallan used a live blade to kill her mother after all...

Setting up investiture trade can be potent and I believe it will likely be a combination of worlds tech before travel between planets can be accomplished outside of the cognitive realm.  FTL travel will likely require a combination of compounding and harmonium and fabrials, perhaps with some awakened items tossed in.  

It may well take all parties failing in their efforts to contain Odium (likely self sabotage in their efforts to "fix" eachothers plans) before they combine resources to distort connection in a way to transfer nahel bonds beyond Roshars limits.  

If Odium gets off of Roshar... when Odium gets off of Roshar... it will be a cosmere wide necessity to figure out how to transport radiant and spren alike out of the system as well.  Odium will not be able to be contained or destroyed without the Knights Radiant.  

But we need to a bigger brighter conflict between systems before we can reach the working together.  

I look forward to what creatures can be born with mixed spiritual DNA.  People born with a biochromatic breath and an allomantic or feruchemical power... people born with both of these and the traces of Rosharan blood that attract spren to them?   If this is even possible.... it could well be a matter of tech and hemalurgy that allow, exclusively, magic systems to meld.  

 

[+Bzhydack]

19 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I look forward to what creatures can be born with mixed spiritual DNA.  People born with a biochromatic breath and an allomantic or feruchemical power... people born with both of these and the traces of Rosharan blood that attract spren to them?   If this is even possible.... it could well be a matter of tech and hemalurgy that allow, exclusively, magic systems to meld.  

You dont need to be Rosharan to atract Spren, also you dont need to be Nalthian to aquire Breaths. So you simply can be Scadrian Metalborn who buy some Breaths and go to Roshar and Bond Spren.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

You dont need to be Rosharan to atract Spren, also you dont need to be Nalthian to aquire Breaths. So you simply can be Scadrian Metalborn who buy some Breaths and go to Roshar and Bond Spren.

I agree that the other 2 are attainable through other methods.  But a foot in the door is a foot in the door.  

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I don't think that the different creations can interact like that.  Without a shared originator or creator, I don't think that-which-we-commonly-call-the-humans of the separate worlds are truly the same species as one another.  In a very real sense, they would be closer to the other species of their same creation than to each other.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

9 hours ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

I don't think that the different creations can interact like that.  Without a shared originator or creator, I don't think that-which-we-commonly-call-the-humans of the separate worlds are truly the same species as one another.  In a very real sense, they would be closer to the other species of their same creation than to each other.

I see the idea here but didn't all the worlds and peoples on them originate from one area?  When Adonalsium created everything did he create all of the worlds and place the races on them at that time with different DNA?   Or did they all start together and get distributed outward with the shattering?   How closely related is their SDNA?   Is their physical DNA created from the start that much different or over a few thousand years simply evolved to be vastly different?  

Kandra could potentially splice some weird genetic voodoo and make cross breeding possible... maybe...  WoBs on Kandra and their ability to duplicate DNA and functioning organ systems (even reproductive ones) have been a bit conflicting with WoBs that question the ability for a kandra to reproduce. 

Do spiritual DNA and physical DNA work together in so much that they rely on one another for invested arts purposes?  

For sure the easiest way to collect powers like Pokémon will be via technological advancement though.  Medallions, fabrials, spikes and forgery... even buying breaths.  It is possible to get them all.  Some may even help to get you others.... medallion for duralumin and then unleash all the connection you can on a spren???  F-duralumin and A-zinc/ brass for manipulating breaths away from people.  Trading breaths for medallions or fabrials which can allow you to further earn breaths... "I will heal your sister if you give me your breath."

I guess this is way off topic for ghostbloods (I know I have jumped off the deep end when I have to scroll up to see what thread I am posting in haha).... but maybe not.  What do the ghostbloods really want?   Well all of these ideas are perfectly in the realm of blackmarket investiture trade so I guess it fits.  

[HSuperLee]

10 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I see the idea here but didn't all the worlds and peoples on them originate from one area?  When Adonalsium created everything did he create all of the worlds and place the races on them at that time with different DNA?   Or did they all start together and get distributed outward with the shattering?   How closely related is their SDNA?   Is their physical DNA created from the start that much different or over a few thousand years simply evolved to be vastly different? 

Scadrians were created directly by Ruin and Preservation and have no Yolish ancestry, differentiating them from most other humans in the Cosmere.

Edited October 26, 2022 by HSuperLee

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

7 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

Scadrians were created directly by Ruin and Preservation and have no Yolish ancestry, differentiation them from most other humans in the Cosmere.

You are absolutely right.  It has been a minute since I read era 1. 

[Spearguy]

8 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

Scadrians were created directly by Ruin and Preservation and have no Yolish ancestry, differentiation them from most other humans in the Cosmere.

Well that may be the case genealogically I doubt that when Ruin an Preservation created them they probably didn't change the genetics, so they would still be human and therefore their sDNA would probably have very little differences from those who had Yolish ancestry. The way I see it the sDNA would probably have like a sort of tag that mentions who was their creator.  

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I don't think sDNA is a real thing, it's too silly.  That would imply sRNA, sMRNA, and all sorts of spiritual proteins and cellular gobbledygook.

[offer]

5 hours ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

I don't think sDNA is a real thing, it's too silly.  That would imply sRNA, sMRNA, and all sorts of spiritual proteins and cellular gobbledygook.

sDNA is just another name for the spirit web of someone - it is like DNA in the sense that it sontains the spiritual information about this person. It does not have the structure of "physical" DNA.

[Frustration]

On 10/29/2022 at 10:03 PM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

I don't think sDNA is a real thing, it's too silly.  That would imply sRNA, sMRNA, and all sorts of spiritual proteins and cellular gobbledygook.

It isn't an actual molecule, but it is a confirmed thing.

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:07 PM, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If Odium gets off of Roshar... when Odium gets off of Roshar... it will be a cosmere wide necessity to figure out how to transport radiant and spren alike out of the system as well.  Odium will not be able to be contained or destroyed without the Knights Radiant.  

If the Radiants can't manage it before Odium is freed, what makes you think they can manage it after?  If Odium gets off of Roshar, then the only noun in the universe to have successfully eternally prevented an evil shard from becoming a multi-system problem will have been Preservation, which, as has been established, is gone from the Cosmere.

 

At that point, I'd trust the Scadrians over the Rosharans, given their respective records of success, failure, and learning-from-failure in such regards (heck, in that situation, I'd trust any system in the Cosmere over the Rosharan system, given that none of them messed up so badly as to cause/not-prevent a shard-level multi-system disaster like that).

Edited November 11, 2022 by Aliroz-The-Confused