Adolin vs Dalinar

[lukaash]

This is kinda a dumb question, but in a one-on-one, who would win, Adonlin or Dalinar? This is without stormlight. Both users have plate and blade. Let's make both of them prime ages, but Dalinar does not have the thrill. I thought because Adolin is the "best" duelist in the world, but Dalinar is the blackthorn. Who do you think wins?

[Quantus]

In a 1-on-1 duel sort of fight, Adolin. He's a dedicated Duelist (it's literally his religion) while Dalinar was and still is more just a terrifying presence on a battle-field (and a good judge of talent). 

 

 

Quote

 

Chad

Would Adolin or Dalinar have a heron-marked blade if they were in Randland?

Brandon Sanderson

Adolin would, Dalinar would not. Dalinar is not a duelist, Dalinar is a destroyer. Dalinar is someone you let loose on a battlefield and couldn’t -- he does not care if he has a heron-marked blade, if he’s considered a swordmaster. He will use any weapon he can get his hands on, and is proficient in a lot of them. What he is most proficient at is striking terror into your heart and laying waste (this is young Dalinar) to everything in his path. Dalinar is a general and a warlord, not a swordsman. 

Footnote: “Randland” refers to the Wheel of Time universe in this context, where swordmasters are given marked with a heron.
YouTube Livestream 16 (Aug. 21, 2020)

 

 

[Rg2045]

So I think this depends on the context. 
1v1 duel in arena adolin wins 8/10 times

1v1 on the battle field Dalinar wins 8/10 times 

army vs army Dalinar wins 9/10 times. 
politically adolin wins 6/10 times 

Dalinar as the WoB says is a monster. A beast that when let loose destroys those in his path and revels in it. 

adolin is a duelist of the highest caliber. He is heads and shoulders above even the second best, in the highest trained militaristic country in the cosmer. 
 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Adolin was floored when he saw Dalinar fight Szeth.

@Quantus That WoB basically says Dalinar wouldn't care enough about a blade to have one. It doesn't really say anything about whether he would deserve one. It's basically Brandon saying that Adolin is vain about his skill where Dalinar is so skilled that he doesn't care.

I give this to Dalinar 11/10 times.

[Quantus]

8 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Adolin was floored when he saw Dalinar fight Szeth.

@Quantus That WoB basically says Dalinar wouldn't care enough about a blade to have one. It doesn't really say anything about whether he would deserve one. It's basically Brandon saying that Adolin is vain about his skill where Dalinar is so skilled that he doesn't care.

I give this to Dalinar 11/10 times.

I see what you're saying.  And honestly this wob might tip it you way, depending on whether you see Dalinar as the super-experienced one like Lan, or the Soldier with a much more Battlefield focus like Kaladin. I still lean towards him being the latter.

So I'll change my answer to: 50/50, and it goes to the first one willing to fight dirty.

 

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Questioner

How would Adolin fare against the greats like Lan, Rand, Galad, and how would Kaladin and his spear fare against Mat?

Brandon Sanderson

It’s really hard to say this, because what are different characters’ skill levels and things? For instance, I generally count Lan as the strongest and the best. My [Wheel of Time] books that I wrote show that. I think Lan would beat Adolin. You just can’t replace the twenty years of intense practice that Lan has, and the wisdom, no matter how talented of a rookie you are -- even though Adolin is not a rookie. I think Lan could go toe-to-toe with anyone non-immortal in the cosmere, because a lot of the cosmere people have an advantage, right? Taln has spent 4,000 years practicing with weapons. Granted, he spent a bunch of that time being tortured as well, but you know. He has many lifetimes behind him, and has been able to be killed making mistakes and never make those mistakes again. That is a leg up on someone like Lan or like Adolin that is just of a supernatural level. And so, while I think Lan would beat any swordsman in a fair fight from the Cosmere, I would count anyone who has a greatly expanded lifespan as an unfair fight. Like, I don’t think Lan would be able to stand against the better duelists among the Heralds or even against Vasher. Vasher’s got multiple lifetimes of practicing with the sword.

How would Kaladin do against Mat? It depends, Mat’s luck is a very big wildcard, and how is the luck on Mat’s side and how is karma working in Mat’s favor or against him in that given moment? That’s part of what makes Mat fun. So Kaladin is a soldier, again, not a duelist. Kaladin is really good with a spear, but his training is in war, his training is to be a battlefield captain. What even is Mat? Mat has been trained by fate itself with weapons, which is just really hard to play. Let’s call that a tie, edge probably to Kaladin.

Lan beats Adolin or basically any duelist but you put him up against the Heralds and he has a much harder time.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/435/#e14110

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Quantus

[SwordNimiForPresident]

@Quantus That's a cool WoB. I wonder if Brandon thought about the fact that Demandred was 400 something years old (not counting 3000 years imprisoned) when he fought Lan. It might impact his Vasher v Lan matchup, although Demandred lost due to arrogance which Vasher does not seem to suffer from. I would say Lan's willingness to die in order to win probably gives him a chance against almost anyone. Hard to walk away from a fight with a guy that will take a blade to the chest in order to score a killing blow.

Edited September 24, 2022 by SwordNimiForPresident

[Treamayne]

18 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I would say Lan's willingness to die in order to win

I doubt this is actually true.

Wheel of Time Spoilers

Spoiler

Lan was willing to die against a Forsaken to fulfill his duty - and I think that is very different than being willing to risk death in a random fight to "win" the duel.

 

[Quantus]

43 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

@Quantus That's a cool WoB. I wonder if Brandon thought about the fact that Demandred was 400 something years old (not counting 3000 years imprisoned) when he fought Lan. It might impact his Vasher v Lan matchup, although Demandred lost due to arrogance which Vasher does not seem to suffer from. I would say Lan's willingness to die in order to win probably gives him a chance against almost anyone. Hard to walk away from a fight with a guy that will take a blade to the chest in order to score a killing blow.

That feels similar to how Vasher beat two people he acknowledged as better swordsmen with a well-placed distraction.  These topics are fun but are ultimately odds discussions, and the better fighter can always still loose in the moment.  

[SwordNimiForPresident]

34 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I doubt this is actually true.

Wheel of Time Spoilers

  Hide contents

Lan was willing to die against a Forsaken to fulfill his duty - and I think that is very different than being willing to risk death in a random fight to "win" the duel.

 

Fair point. He def doesn't hesitate to self sacrifice if he deems it necessary though.

9 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That feels similar to how Vasher beat two people he acknowledged as better swordsmen with a well-placed distraction.  These topics are fun but are ultimately odds discussions, and the better fighter can always still loose in the moment.  

I guess that loops back around to Dalinar v Adolin though. Of the two of them, I would side with Dalinar when it comes to improvisation or using circumstance to your advantage (Like Lan or Vasher).

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I guess that loops back around to Dalinar v Adolin though. Of the two of them, I would side with Dalinar when it comes to improvisation or using circumstance to your advantage (Like Lan or Vasher).

I concur. My take would be:

• In a Duel under the codes 60/40 Adolin (he's the better duelist, but Dalinar certainly has tricks he wouldn't be ready for)
• In all other circumstances 95/05 Dalinar - Adolin is a great duelist, and he's learning the rest; but he really would not be prepared for the back-alley brawl version Dalinar would bring to the fight