Memories and Breath

[Tglassy]

Relistening through the cosmere, and got to the part where Vasher helps the little girl.  Vivina says the girl’s life force flickered.  Then the girl acted as if she didn’t remember the last few months.  
 

then when T-Odium hit Hoid at the end of Rhythms of War, he did something with his Breaths that made him forget. 
 

How does this work?  Have we gotten any other info on this?

[That1Cellist he/him]

21 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

Relistening through the cosmere, and got to the part where Vasher helps the little girl.  Vivina says the girl’s life force flickered.  Then the girl acted as if she didn’t remember the last few months.  
 

then when T-Odium hit Hoid at the end of Rhythms of War, he did something with his Breaths that made him forget. 
 

How does this work?  Have we gotten any other info on this?

At the end of warbreaker, Vasher mentions, "I know the commands" When Denth is talking about how he wishes he could forget all the things he's done. Yes, you can store memories in breath. No, we don't know a lot about it yet.

[Quantus he/him]

The little girl (with vasher's guidance) "encoded" the memory in the Investiture of the Breath as it went into the object, more or less like a temporary Coppermind.  But when she took it back she just drained the raw Investiture back into herself where its busy making her a non-Drab instead of storing a memory. 

Vasher (and presumably Hoid) knows advanced techniques that let them Invest breaths into their own bodies, so my guess is that Hoid is doing that to more specific effect. But he has lots of unexplained abilites so we cant really say what went into his Memory Storage trick (other than something like it is apparently within reach of the Heralds).

[That1Cellist he/him]

33 minutes ago, Quantus said:

The little girl (with vasher's guidance) "encoded" the memory in the Investiture of the Breath as it went into the object, more or less like a temporary Coppermind.  But when she took it back she just drained the raw Investiture back into herself where its busy making her a non-Drab instead of storing a memory. 

Vasher (and presumably Hoid) knows advanced techniques that let them Invest breaths into their own bodies, so my guess is that Hoid is doing that to more specific effect. But he has lots of unexplained abilites so we cant really say what went into his Memory Storage trick (other than something like it is apparently within reach of the Heralds).

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. Would you mind informing me why we know this? I suppose I could have pieced it together, but I was just wondering if this is known from somewhere else.

[Quantus he/him]

42 minutes ago, That1Cellist said:

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. Would you mind informing me why we know this? I suppose I could have pieced it together, but I was just wondering if this is known from somewhere else.

There isnt a specific WOB about the scene with the little girl, but it's a topic that's come up several times and that was the consensus answer, made significantly stronger when it was shown that Hoid stores memory in Breath.  There was a WOB somewhere (Im struggling to find it today) about Vasher storing his breaths in his own flesh to hide them from Lifesense.  

[That1Cellist he/him]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

There isnt a specific WOB about the scene with the little girl, but it's a topic that's come up several times and that was the consensus answer, made significantly stronger when it was shown that Hoid stores memory in Breath.  There was a WOB somewhere (Im struggling to find it today) about Vasher storing his breaths in his own flesh to hide them from Lifesense.  

Ah. Thank you. It's always nice to try to figure out why we know what we do.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Quantus said:

There isnt a specific WOB about the scene with the little girl, but it's a topic that's come up several times and that was the consensus answer, made significantly stronger when it was shown that Hoid stores memory in Breath.  There was a WOB somewhere (Im struggling to find it today) about Vasher storing his breaths in his own flesh to hide them from Lifesense.  

Did you mean this one?

 

Spoiler

TheFoxQR (paraphrased)

In Awakening, can you with some mental gymnastics, view yourself as both the donor and recipient of Breaths? Is this how Vasher hides his Divine Breath (and consequently nature), by tucking it inside of himself rather than an external object? Theoretically, can you Awaken yourself, and with the right Commands enhance/extend yourself Cognitively, like how burning atium comes with Cognitive enhancements to process the raw information?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is a theory worth exploring. You're not quite there, but you are on to something.

 

[Quantus he/him]

9 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Did you mean this one?

 

  Hide contents

TheFoxQR (paraphrased)

In Awakening, can you with some mental gymnastics, view yourself as both the donor and recipient of Breaths? Is this how Vasher hides his Divine Breath (and consequently nature), by tucking it inside of himself rather than an external object? Theoretically, can you Awaken yourself, and with the right Commands enhance/extend yourself Cognitively, like how burning atium comes with Cognitive enhancements to process the raw information?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is a theory worth exploring. You're not quite there, but you are on to something.

 

Maybe?  I thought there was one that confirmed he was hiding them inside himself to prevent their detection by Lifesense but didnt recall it actually addressing self-augmentation at all.  There's another that talks about how Self-Augmentation/Healing/etc can be difficult to impossible because of the fundamental Gifting nature of "Endowment".

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

Maybe?  I thought there was one that confirmed he was hiding them inside himself to prevent their detection by Lifesense but didnt recall it actually addressing self-augmentation at all.  There's another that talks about how Self-Augmentation/Healing/etc can be difficult to impossible because of the fundamental Gifting nature of "Endowment".

These?

 

Spoiler

Quote

vandar10

Could someone with enough Breaths use part of them to heal himself without the help of a Returned?? Could the God King have healed himself without Lightsong with enough knowledge?

Brandon Sanderson

The nature of the Warbreaker magic is tied to the shard of Endowment, which is about giving. There are, therefore, things you cannot do for yourself.

RobotAztec

For healing can Big Breaths heal only one person at a time or can you heal a bunch of people at once?(as long as they are not yourself)?

Brandon Sanderson

Legends say you can heal many.

Quote

mathota123

Also what would happen if I had a LOT of Breath and tried to Awaken something that was still alive...?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO on the second question. You could say that Investing someone with your Breath, however, IS Awakening them.

crocsandcargos

Are Commands unique to Endowment and those with Breath, or do other Shards have an equivalent or similar power / ability? The girl Vasher rescues, his statements to Denth, and your quote above seem to point that Commands can be used on living entities for some purposes... I've always wondered if there was more to Dalinar referring to "unite them" as a 'phantom command'. If other Shards use commands or something similar it could also explain the mechanism of the Nightwatcher's boon/curse related to Dalinar's memory loss.

Brandon Sanderson

Intent is one of the components of the Magic, as you'll see frequently. These things are related.

Quote

Lindel (paraphrased)

There's that trick with Feruchemy that lets you make metalminds that others can tap. Could you do something similar with Self-Awakening?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Oh yeah, there are all sorts of tricks that you can do. You could use other peoples Breaths, make it seem like you don't have any Breath-

Lindel (paraphrased)

Awaken an object so that others could access its Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

 

 

They seem the most relevant that I could find quickly.

[Quantus he/him]

13 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Did you mean this one?

 

  Hide contents

TheFoxQR (paraphrased)

In Awakening, can you with some mental gymnastics, view yourself as both the donor and recipient of Breaths? Is this how Vasher hides his Divine Breath (and consequently nature), by tucking it inside of himself rather than an external object? Theoretically, can you Awaken yourself, and with the right Commands enhance/extend yourself Cognitively, like how burning atium comes with Cognitive enhancements to process the raw information?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is a theory worth exploring. You're not quite there, but you are on to something.

 

Maybe?  I thought there was one that confirmed he was hiding them inside himself to prevent their detection by Lifesense but didnt recall it actually addressing self-augmentation at all.  There's another that talks about how Self-Augmentation/Healing/etc can be difficult to impossible because of the fundamental Gifting nature of "Endowment".