Calling forth ideas for Fourth Ideals

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

Everyone’s trying to figure out the Fifth Ideals for our main characters, but we’re flying blind until we see a couple in the books. We already know 2 (or 3 if you count Lightweavers) of the Fourth Ideals, so we have a frame of understanding there.

For the Windrunners it holds them back from being overprotective, and the Skybreaker’s Crusade is, I think, about the complex reality of enforcing/changing the law and the dangers of being personally involved. Even Shallan’s Ideal was her greatest crime/mistake.

If we assume the Fourth Ideal usually acts as a check on the shortcomings/worst tendencies of the Order, I wanted to hear peoples thoughts for the ones we haven’t seen yet.

 

To get it started; I reckon the problem with the Elsecaller’s is that they’d be too self-centred and individualistic, so their Ideal would be to help others, possible to help them achieve their own potentials.

Another thought is if the Stonewards are meant to be stoic and helpful, their Fourth would be about taking care of themselves. You can’t be there for someone if you’re dead.

[EmTheElsecaller]

For the Truthwatchers, it could be something to do with not letting their desire/need to find truth cloud their vision and to accept when there are times that it is better not to find the truth, perhaps if it’s of a very sensitive/personal nature or if it would be overall more beneficial to others not to hear it. So I think something like, “I understand that sometimes I should not find/share truth.” Although, is that too similar to Windrunner 4th? I’m not sure…

 

[Yumiya]

For Dustbringers it might be recognizing that sometimes that there are things outside their control. So maybe, "I will not hold myself responsible for things I cannot control."
For Edgedancers, maybe "Some people are better left forgotten."

For Willshapers, could be "Freedom comes with a price" or "Not all freedom is beneficial".

Bondsmiths will probably be highly unique to the individual bondsmith. 

[That1Cellist he/him]

6 minutes ago, Yumiya said:

For Dustbringers it might be recognizing that sometimes that there are things outside their control. So maybe, "I will not hold myself responsible for things I cannot control."
For Edgedancers, maybe "Some people are better left forgotten."

For Willshapers, could be "Freedom comes with a price" or "Not all freedom is beneficial".

Bondsmiths will probably be highly unique to the individual bondsmith. 

I think edgedancer fourth ideal might be something more like, "I accept that we will all be forgotten." Or, "I understand that I cannot remember everyone."

[Mr. Misting he/him]

For Truthwatchers it could be something like "I understand I cannot know/find all truth". I could totally see them getting consumed by one question.

I think that That1Cellist is probably right on the edgedancer ideal. Something about not remembering everyone or people being forgotten.

Stoneward's fourth oath would probably be very similar to the Windrunner's.

And just one total shot in the dark for Elsecallers. They are all about finding their potential and such. The fourth oath could be something like "I understand I can not be perfect". A nice understanding for the order to have, so that no one gets obsessed with perfection and prevents personal growth.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Mr. Misting

[EmTheElsecaller]

3 hours ago, Mr. Misting said:

And just one total shot in the dark for Elsecallers. They are all about finding their potential and such. The fourth oath could be something like "I understand I can not be perfect". A nice understanding for the order to have, so that no one gets obsessed with perfection and prevents personal growth.

I like this, I feel like it could be something themed towards knowing the difference between ‘perfection’ and reaching their true potential as a person. So perhaps something like ‘I will not let my desire for perfection stand in the way of personal growth.’

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

On 27/8/2022 at 3:40 AM, Yumiya said:

For Willshapers, could be "Freedom comes with a price" or "Not all freedom is beneficial".

Yeah, I was thinking it could be something about responsibility for Willshapers; Making your own decisions means dealing with the consequences.

Quote

On 30/8/2022 at 11:48 AM, Mr. Misting said:

And just one total shot in the dark for Elsecallers. They are all about finding their potential and such. The fourth oath could be something like "I understand I can not be perfect". A nice understanding for the order to have, so that no one gets obsessed with perfection and prevents personal growth.

That’s a good one, although I’m personally assigning that as the third Ideal so I can keep my own suggestion head-canonical 

[Letryx13]

I’m all but certain that the fourth or fifth ideal  of BondSmiths is about giving up power when it’s appropriate. Dalinar has a lot of trouble with that, so it’s probably a perfect one for him. 
 

StoneWards are about being reliable for other people. So I’d bet their fourth idea is about putting themselves first once in a while. Similar to the WindRunner ideal of accepting they can’t protect everyone. It could also be the EdgeDancer ideal instead. 

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:48 AM, Letryx13 said:

I’m all but certain that the fourth or fifth ideal  of BondSmiths is about giving up power when it’s appropriate. Dalinar has a lot of trouble with that, so it’s probably a perfect one for him. 

I completely agree with you. All through the books Dalinar’s been trying out different political positions to get the job done, and now Navani has basically taken his place as monarch of Urithiru. Bondsmiths are also described as guiding priests, distinct from kingship. It’s probably also too much power for one person to have, being a king and a Bondsmith.