Reinterpreting Maya's statements (and the Recreance)

[kelianmao]

Maya's Statements

I think we are misinterpreting one of Maya's statements, or rather, we've been deliberately misled about what it should mean.

After the trial, where we learned that the Recreance was a conscious choice by the Knights and their spren together, Brandon hits us with this little sequence to show how the bond between Adolin and Maya is developing:

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He could feel her curiosity, her … awareness. She looked up at him and nodded.

He nodded back. “Thank you.”

“Stren…” she whispered. “Stren. Be…”

“Strength before weakness.”

She nodded again, then turned her scratched-out gaze toward the ground, exhausted.

- Rhythm of War Ch 94

Cool, Maya and Adolin can communicate! So, when we get this next, we just assume it's correct too:

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Adolin sat beside her, letting her lean against him. “Why, Maya? Why were you willing to do it?”

“To save … save…” She sagged and shook her head.

“To save us from something worse,” Adolin said, then looked to Blended. “What does it mean?”

“It means we’ve had all of this terribly wrong for much time, Highprince Adolin,” she said.

- Rhythm of War Ch 94

Unfortunately, I think we've still got it wrong.

But wait, you say, didn't Adolin just understand Maya correctly a few lines ago? Except, figuring out Maya was trying to say the First Ideal, versus interpreting her justification for the Recreance, are completely different things. 

The statement that they abandoned their oaths "to save us from something worse" is only ever said by Adolin, and we've been tricked into thinking his interpretations are correct! But one (easy) guess doesn't make him an expert at understanding Maya. In fact, note that Maya doesn't nod here, like she did previously. I think that Maya is too exhausted to correct Adolin, and their bond isn't strong enough yet for full communication.

The Recreance

In fact, I'm willing to propose that the entire idea of the Recreance being undertaken to prevent humans from destroying Roshar is conjecture by modern characters (and readers). Consider:

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But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor … promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar.

“Odium claimed the same thing.”

He can see the future, though only cloudily. Regardless, I … understand now as I never did before. The ancient Radiants didn’t abandon their oaths out of pettiness. They tried to protect the world. I blame them for their weakness, their broken oaths. But I also understand. You have cursed me, human, with this capacity.

- Oathbringer Ch 113

The statement that "they tried to protect the world" here is just conjecture by the Stormfather, who is not all knowing. In fact, he even states here that he only "understands now" because of the influence of Dalinar's bond.

We know humans with Surgebinding (and Dawnshards) have the capacity to destroy worlds. We also know the Recreance happened after the final generation of Knights learned about this fact. However, this doesn't mean one was the cause of the other, only that Brandon likes putting these two facts next to each other. 

My turn to conjecture...

So, I personally believe Maya's statement "To save … save…" actually refers to something else the Knights Radiant were trying to do. What specifically, I can only guess.

Honor was apparently dying, so were they trying to save him? Did they think Honor was going insane because they were over-using the Surges (like Saidin)? Was he being overrun by Odium because too much of his Investiture was being spent elsewhere?

Or, was something happening in Shadesmar, and the spren needed to break their bonds to return there and save their home?

Perhaps they were trying to save Ba-Ado-Mishram and/or the singers, after whatever they did to trap her went wrong. If there were no more Radiants, would whatever they accidentally did to the singers stop?

Then again, just like how "Stren" was Maya trying to say "Strength", maybe she's actually trying to say something else here. "To savor the delicacies of Shadesmar again... oh no Ba-Ado-Mishram messed everything up and we're deadeyes now, oops"

Final Thoughts

Whatever the reason, I think there is more to the Recreance than 'apparently we broke our previous planet, let's give up here too'. We're sure to learn more in book 5, be it through Ba-Ado-Mishram, Maya and Adolin's developing bond, the Heralds, or something unexpected. 

[Rg2045]

I like it. It also brings more sense to nale killing radiants perhaps to protect the oathpact 

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

I like this theory

Not sure it's right, but I do agree that we're assuming a lot about what Maya was trying to say there in the 2nd section.

We trust Adolin almost implicitly because he's a "good" POV character, but he isn't omniscient. While their bond is stronger than any non-radiant, and he can often sense her emotion even before she started speaking again, it doesn't mean he's exactly right in this interpretation. 

I hope we get more of this background/lore in SA5 though!

[cometaryorbit]

On 8/3/2022 at 7:29 PM, Rg2045 said:

I like it. It also brings more sense to nale killing radiants perhaps to protect the oathpact 

I figured Ishar decided Radiants would bring the next Desolation (and told Nale this) because of Honor's raving that they would 'destroy Roshar' - Ishar interpreted 'destroy Roshar' as 'cause a Desolation' (not being terribly sane, and probably being unwilling to remember the destruction of Ashyn since his role in it doesn't really fit his whole 'I'm a god' madness).

--

This fits really well. I agree we don't have the full False Desolation/Recreance story yet; I expect we'll learn the full story in book 5 with the Ba-Ado-Mishram plot line.

Edited August 7, 2022 by cometaryorbit