bmcclure7 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 12 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: What a wild and wonderful theory! If I can add my thoughts to the pile: The Wall could represent the Misted Mountains that separate Shinovar from the rest of Roshar and block the highstorms. The Girl climbing the Wall would be her trekking through the mountain range. I get the sense that the Betrayal (or whatever we’re calling it) was more complex than has been revealed. From Leshwi’s reaction to Timbre it would seem she thinks the burden of guilt is on the Singers. Honour seems to have sided with the humans, and I would think Honour of all beings wouldn’t have sided with the people that broke an agreement. I think whoever the Girl/Tsa represents exploited a loophole or pushed the terms of the refugee deal enough that it provoked the singers (undoubtedly with Odium’s urging) to fully break the agreement, beginning the Desolations. Assuming the moons represent the Shards in some way, Mishim would be Cultivation, so Tsa in the story would be swapping places with Cultivation or a spren particular to her (like the Nightwatcher?). I wouldn’t put it past either of them as something they would want to re/experience. Further, this would mean according to the story Tsa had a child with Honour (or the Stormfather)! As people have mentioned above, the story of Queen Tsa is a Natanese(?) story to explain their blue skin, B.S. has said they are blue from Siah Aimian ancestry; so perhaps the Siah are descendants of the Girl/Tsa and Tanavast! If we assume the Girl/Tsa is a female herald; perhaps it could be Vedel who, as the Edgedancer herald, is associated with white as well as Cultivation. Tanavast what dose he have anything to do with it? Shards can't even have children. A where dose he appears in the story.
in Truth,watcher of tv he/him Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: I think so. I need to re-read the part of Oathbringer when it's discovered: I kind of get the feeling that Dalinar, given his personal history and his culture, automatically assumes the betrayal was a human invasion/conquest of singer lands, but that may not actually be the case. "Their betrayal extended even to our gods - spren, stone, and wind" doesn't really sound like a military invasion, more like co-opting the spren's relationship with the singers by giving them a better offer ("we can't provide what the humans lend/ though broth are we, their meat is men" from the WoR epigraphs). The humans also 'brought Odium' in some sense, whatever that means. Well, I think they still invaded, it was probably just more two-sided than a simple story of human greed/imperialism. We also need to keep in mind the listener’s knowledge is based off ancient propaganda of an even more ancient event. That said I agree the humans basically took the singers place in the spren relationship, intentionally or not.
cometaryorbit Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 23 hours ago, bmcclure7 said: Tanavast what dose he have anything to do with it? Shards can't even have children. A where dose he appears in the story. Vessels can have children - there's a WOB. And the whole "Honor's Moon" bit could suggest that the moon represents Tanavast. OTOH if you accept the theory that Siah Aimians are honorspren made Physical (a successful version of what Ishar's trying in RoW) it could represent them instead. 17 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: Well, I think they still invaded, it was probably just more two-sided than a simple story of human greed/imperialism. At some point the humans took singer territory (Roshar beyond Shinovar), yes. Clearly; as in the Desolations-era visions (before singers became parshmen) we see that human kingdoms existed all across Roshar. But that might not have been the original betrayal... it might have occurred after something else made humans and singers become enemies. When did the Singers turn to Odium? Was that a response to human invasion (and the Fused turned to Odium after death then led the other singers to Odium) or an earlier response to the spren favoring humans (so those who would become Fused already followed Odium before they died)?
bmcclure7 Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Vessels can have children - there's a WOB. And the whole "Honor's Moon" bit could suggest that the moon represents Tanavast. OTOH if you accept the theory that Siah Aimians are honorspren made Physical (a successful version of what Ishar's trying in RoW) it could represent them instead. At some point the humans took singer territory (Roshar beyond Shinovar), yes. Clearly; as in the Desolations-era visions (before singers became parshmen) we see that human kingdoms existed all across Roshar. But that might not have been the original betrayal... it might have occurred after something else made humans and singers become enemies. When did the Singers turn to Odium? Was that a response to human invasion (and the Fused turned to Odium after death then led the other singers to Odium) or an earlier response to the spren favoring humans (so those who would become Fused already followed Odium before they died)? "there's a WOB." Can you show me the wob? "Honor's Moon" bit could suggest that the moon represents Tanavast." Really is that your impression I feel the storm father makes much more sense. If not him then the honor Spren.
cometaryorbit Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said: "there's a WOB." Can you show me the wob? Paladin Brewer (paraphrased) Are Shard Vessels able to have children? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes they are. Paladin Brewer (paraphrased) Even Sazed, with his body being a eunuch? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, though technically all of Scadrial are the children of Preservation and Ruin. Librarypalooza (Feb. 27, 2016) 1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said: "Honor's Moon" bit could suggest that the moon represents Tanavast." Really is that your impression I feel the storm father makes much more sense. If not him then the honor Spren. It's a myth, Honor could be conflated or confused with his spren or with the Stormfather, or Honor's Moon could represent any of these - in the same way we know Rosharan legend conflates Jezrien or Kalak with the Stormfather.
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