I Hate Aes Sedai

[Mage]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wheel of Time. I think the ability to inspire strong emotions (such as hate) is the mark of a good book. Well, unless the hate is hate of the book itself...

Anyway. Aes Sedai are the worst. Even the best of them like Egwene and Nynaeve fall prey to the arrogance, overconfidence, and blindness that all Aes Sedai are prey to. Every one of them thinks they know so much, and refuse to admit when they are wrong. Elaida is a horrible person, but she is just an extreme version of what every Aes Sedai is. They all have that spark of arrogant tyrannicalness.

Just for one example. When Asha'man start bonding sisters, this upsets the Aes Sedai. I think this upset is warranted due to the non-consenting nature of the bond. However, the Aes Sedai aren't as concerned about that as they are the mere fact that it is women who are the warders and not men. They refuse to see themselves as equals. Even when the Asha'man come and try to make recompense they don't think that an even number bonded would be a fair deal because in their minds Aes Sedai are superior beings.

I know the sea folk are frustrating. I understand all the Gawyn hate. The Seanchan are pretty terrible. The Asha'man have problems of their own. Sevanna is almost as bad as Elaida. But for me, the Aes Sedai are the worst out of all of them.

Thank you for listening to my ranting. I would love to be proven wrong on these points. Maybe someone could help me understand the Aes Sedai better, and not grow as frustrated when they do literally anything.

[Quantus]

Yes, the Wheel of Time cultures have a lot of unequal gender dynamics and the (modern) Aes Sedai are some of the most aggravating to me because they have (or at least showcase on stage) a lot more of the blatant hypocrisy underlying their beliefs and motivations.  The Aiel leadership comes close occasionally (with another group of magic women, which I dont think is a cooincidence) but they have more balance in their leadership and relationships overall and have a more unifying philosophy as compared to the outright fueding Aja system.  By contrast the Aes Sedai are simultaneously convinced that all Aes Sedai are outright Superior and at the same time are so preoccupied with their own in-fighting because they fundamentally disagree with each other.  Aes Sedai are Wiser than all other people by definition, but their own Aja is actually Wiser than all the others by definition, and yet they dont see a contraction there...

But then, one of the more common criticisms of the Wheel of Time is that nearly all the female characters tended to be flat and default into one of a few basic stereotypes (Damsel, Shrew, and Tomboy) that were all still usually some flavor of arrogant, so the organization that is Female as a primary trait is likely to magnify those issues, even before you add the common arrogance gained by being a rare magic user in your setting.  

[HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES]

Welcome to the whitecloaks my friend

Edited July 8, 2022 by HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES

[Mage]

Actually I changed my mind. Aes Sedai are relatively pleasant when compared with Gawyn Bloody Trakand. His arrogance is unparalleled.

Gathering Storm spoilers

Spoiler

Egwene, a smart and competent woman, claims to not need rescue in GS. I know Gawyn never actually goes and rescues her, but in his head at least he thinks that he knows best for everyone and Egwene is just confused. He also stubbornly continues to think that Rand killed his mother and needs to die despite what people he loves and trusts(ish) tell him. But no. He Gawyn knows better than everyone else and is so much more well informed.

He’s a well developed character, but flaming infuriating. Worse than Aes Sedai.

[bmcclure7]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:31 PM, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

Welcome to the whitecloaks my friend

Wouldn't mind being part of the white clocks post last battle. 

[HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES]

 

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Wouldn't mind being part of the white clocks post last battle. 

Even before, I get that they are bad guys, but their asthetic is sick. 

[Why Kaladin?]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:44 AM, Mage said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wheel of Time. I think the ability to inspire strong emotions (such as hate) is the mark of a good book. Well, unless the hate is hate of the book itself...

Anyway. Aes Sedai are the worst. Even the best of them like Egwene and Nynaeve fall prey to the arrogance, overconfidence, and blindness that all Aes Sedai are prey to. Every one of them thinks they know so much, and refuse to admit when they are wrong. Elaida is a horrible person, but she is just an extreme version of what every Aes Sedai is. They all have that spark of arrogant tyrannicalness.

Just for one example. When Asha'man start bonding sisters, this upsets the Aes Sedai. I think this upset is warranted due to the non-consenting nature of the bond. However, the Aes Sedai aren't as concerned about that as they are the mere fact that it is women who are the warders and not men. They refuse to see themselves as equals. Even when the Asha'man come and try to make recompense they don't think that an even number bonded would be a fair deal because in their minds Aes Sedai are superior beings.

I know the sea folk are frustrating. I understand all the Gawyn hate. The Seanchan are pretty terrible. The Asha'man have problems of their own. Sevanna is almost as bad as Elaida. But for me, the Aes Sedai are the worst out of all of them.

Thank you for listening to my ranting. I would love to be proven wrong on these points. Maybe someone could help me understand the Aes Sedai better, and not grow as frustrated when they do literally anything.

Yes finally thank you I feel the same. Also a lot of the women in the books are jerks like even main characters like Nynaeve and Egwene and Elayne they all feel like they are smarter and should boss over all the guys. And they also seem to have such strict rigid egos that they can't accept being rescued or in need of help unless they are about to die I feel like they just hate all men. My heart goes out to Mat (my favorite character) because he just gets it from everyone I root for him every time he can strike back a bit. I agree that the Aiel seem to have the most functional society by far and the more equal roles.

Edited July 22, 2022 by LightweaverWannabe

[Edema Rue]

…

Don’t worry, despite my username I don’t actually love the Aes Sedai, it’s just a relatively well known thing to put, and “wise one” sounds very arrogant, in a funny twist of irony. 
I do think that the Aes Sedai are too arrogant, but not all of them are awful, and at the same time, it’s a survival tactic. I don’t think a humble Aes Sedai would survive the white tower. 

[The Sovereign]

On 7/7/2022 at 0:44 PM, Mage said:

Elaida is a horrible person, but she is just an extreme version of what every Aes Sedai is.

Just some context for Elaida; She was severely tainted by her exposure to Padan Fain. To your point, she was arrogant to begin with, but the Elaida we see in the later books is not the Elaida we see in books 1 & 2.

[Ataraxian Wist]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:45 PM, The Sovereign said:

Just some context for Elaida; She was severely tainted by her exposure to Padan Fain. To your point, she was arrogant to begin with, but the Elaida we see in the later books is not the Elaida we see in books 1 & 2.

I'd never considered that, but yeah, that world explain how she can be so evil without being Black Ajah: she's not Dark One evil, she's Aridhol evil.