Master Silver Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 Greetings all, With Stormlight 5 in the works I thought it worth discussing how much of Honor's investiture would be needed to re-forge the Shard. Honor spren are of course made from Honor's investiture. The higher the oath, presumably the more highly invested the Windrunner (I know other orders are of Honor, but Windrunners are the most closely linked to him). Other substantial amounts of Honor's investiture can be found in the Honor blades and the Stormfather. I imagine since the Stormfather merged with Tanavast cognitive shadow, Dalinar is the most highly invested being associated with Honor currently. Nale is a herald and Knight Radiant of the fifth Ideal, but again he is a Skybreaker, so maybe let's not count him as one to pick up the shard. Jezrien is dead. So I would rank them Dalinar>Herald>Kaladin> other Windrunners. Would reforging or combining all the honor blades and bonding it be enough concentrated investiture to cause a person to ascend? If Dalinar reaches the fifth ideal since Tanavast died cause him to ascend. Would 5th ideal Dalinar + all honor blades be enough to cause him to ascend. What do you all think?
KaladinWorldsinger Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 A shard has almost infinite investiture (masss investiture equivalence means that all shards have a universe worth of investiture), so combining honorblades or spren or 5th ideal radiant investiture would not be comparable. Also Dalinar has already ascended according to odium, which makes sense in a way because a perpendicularity probably has more investiture than everything else combined
Master Silver Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 27 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: A shard has almost infinite investiture (mass investiture equivalence means that all shards have a universe worth of investiture), so combining honorblades or spren or 5th ideal radiant investiture would not be comparable. Also Dalinar has already ascended according to odium, which makes sense in a way because a perpendicularity probably has more investiture than everything else combined I just figured the honor blades are splinters of Honor right? And they gave direct access to investiture while he was alive. I can never remember if there is a difference between a sliver and a splinter. Anyway, would you compare it to how many Breaths someone holds? I think we have only seen about 10k breaths being held right? But I am mostly thinking of Mistborn, there has to be an upper limit after which you ascend.
cometaryorbit Posted May 3, 2022 Posted May 3, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 0:32 PM, Master Silver said: I just figured the honor blades are splinters of Honor right? And they gave direct access to investiture while he was alive. I can never remember if there is a difference between a sliver and a splinter. Anyway, would you compare it to how many Breaths someone holds? I think we have only seen about 10k breaths being held right? But I am mostly thinking of Mistborn, there has to be an upper limit after which you ascend. Sliver = former Vessel of a Shard, or former holder of a large portion of a Shard's power Splinter = Investiture separated from a Shard, either self-aware or at least separate enough to potentially become so (distinct from the Shard's own identity/mind) Spren are Splinters. We haven't seen Slivers in Stormlight, though we have in Mistborn. We've seen 50,000+ Breaths (10th Heightening). I think Shard level is ridiculously beyond that, by many orders of magnitude (Nalthis' population is likely somewhere in the hundreds of millions, and I doubt Endowment is seriously diminished by that number of Breaths). 3
Master Silver Posted May 4, 2022 Author Posted May 4, 2022 23 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: Sliver = former Vessel of a Shard, or former holder of a large portion of a Shard's power Splinter = Investiture separated from a Shard, either self-aware or at least separate enough to potentially become so (distinct from the Shard's own identity/mind) Spren are Splinters. We haven't seen Slivers in Stormlight, though we have in Mistborn. We've seen 50,000+ Breaths (10th Heightening). I think Shard level is ridiculously beyond that, by many orders of magnitude (Nalthis' population is likely somewhere in the hundreds of millions, and I doubt Endowment is seriously diminished by that number of Breaths). So this leads to the inevitable question what/who is more highly invested a Full-Born from the Mistborn series, 5th ideal radiant, a Bondsmith, or a Herald. or someone with 10th Heightening. Also I sort of feel like the Storm Father is unique in that he was a spren which merged somehow with the cognitive shadow of a dying shard (which might qualify as a sliver). In which case Odium's conversation with Dalinar makes more sense about the power eventually binding him.
cometaryorbit Posted May 5, 2022 Posted May 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Master Silver said: So this leads to the inevitable question what/who is more highly invested a Full-Born from the Mistborn series, 5th ideal radiant, a Bondsmith, or a Herald. or someone with 10th Heightening. Also I sort of feel like the Storm Father is unique in that he was a spren which merged somehow with the cognitive shadow of a dying shard (which might qualify as a sliver). In which case Odium's conversation with Dalinar makes more sense about the power eventually binding him. Heralds are powerful Cognitive Shadows so are probably well up there on the Investiture scale (they seem more powerful than Returned - and Zahel seems to confirm this in RoW, saying that Cognitive Shadows that stay dead when their bodies are killed again are the less powerful ones - and a Returned is equivalent to 2000 Breaths). But Tenth Heightening is *way* up there. I don't think we have any way of knowing which is higher, but both are way above Radiants, Allomancers, Feruchemists etc. The Lord Ruler from Mistborn would win in a fight, except possibly against Ishar's Bondsmith Unchained stuff, but not when comparing raw quantity of Investiture.
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