Long Game 85/Anonymous Game 12: Do Kandra Dream of Electric Sparrows?

[Amethyst Scorpion]

Public note that looking for people who are not acting the same doesn't work: they have a doc they can talk in, the old owner can basically instruct them on how to talk.

 

Look for Elims using something else. Looking at you @Amber Vulture

[Chartreuse Penguin]

4 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Public note that looking for people who are not acting the same doesn't work: they have a doc they can talk in, the old owner can basically instruct them on how to talk.

 

Look for Elims using something else. Looking at you @Amber Vulture

Additionally, imbedded codes in past posts to prove identity don’t work either for the same reason

Edited April 28, 2022 by Chartreuse Penguin

[Melon Dingo]

Sooooo

Do tineye get to know anything? Bc this message seems... interesting.

It talks about stealing the salmon, and there's a Salmon Meerkat. It has the bit about past lives helping guide the current life, and that's kinda like the conversion mechanic? tho that's probably me just reading too much into it and seeing things where nothing's there. It talks about getting something something stuck in a darkity place and maybe thats death or elimhood?

But only listen to my good ideas not the bad ones and I'm pretty sure tineyes don't usually get to know more stuff than villagers do but...

---

Also I think Crocodile might be one of the chaos demons and thats why my read is all wonky

Also also the thing I meant earlier was that players who've played should know not to claim important/nice Village roles because then the elims want you deaded or converted. I'm sorry I explained that badly (and by that I mean didn't even finish the entire thought)

---

Quote

 

"Hello Rel!" Cody waves, while surreptitiously examining Rel's shoes for any high-tech and/or mystical properties.

"Yeah, a lot of us Mistrunner types are lone wolves," he explains in a hardboiled fashion. "We can't rely on nobody to look out for us. Nobody has our back. Mistrunners like me are just too darn badchull to need that sort of thing. And the more successful you get, well, the more enemies you have. I have lots of enemies, back where I'm from," Cody explains proudly. "A real Mistrunner doesn't need to trust anybody! We live by the strength of our own wit, and, er... Strength."

"...anyways... A- Are you saying you're not a professional Mistrunner? Er. What brings you out here on this fine night? You... You know there's a containment breach, right?"

 

AuRel tipped his head sideways in a manner he'd observed meant confusion. "Your companions don't seem to agree with you about the lone wolf bit, and I feel like it's weird to want less help when more people want to kill you." He straightened. "And no, I'm not a professional, but I do know some of what's going on - I'm not THAT bad at watching. Anyways," he continued, putting a little too much emphasis on the S of anyways, "you havent answered my question. Are you you? And how can one be sure if they are theirself?" He seemed a little... stiff... as he talked, as if every movement was deliberate. As if every movement had to be deliberate.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

Cody sighs. This isn't really what being a Mistrunner was advertised as. There weren't any epic gunfights or thrilling chases so far... Just... Patrolling an empty lab at night, sleeping when you could, putting in the hours. It was important to be one of the ones to bring in the escaped experiments to get paid well or make a name for yourself. And, of course, you can't trust the other Mistrunners, for multiple reasons.

"This is mostly the same as yesterday!!" Cody observes. "And, um, hopefully yesterday doesn't repeat itself. Uh. I think Agent Scorp is still spooky."

The animal-themed codenames was probably one of the coolest parts of being a Mistrunner.

[Magenta Albatross]

Sorry for not getting on yesterday. I had something come up. 

Here's a look at Emerald Falcon's posts

• Glad about PMs
  • Foreshadowing their creation of every trio PM in the game, presumably
• A vote count. Prefers Crocodile dying over Scorpion.
  • Honestly could read anything into this depending on how far back we assume the plotting goes. If we assume they've been plotting this for a while, Crocodile and Scorpion are probably both village.
• Night one. Says no vote manip when there clearly was a rioter. Lampshades a lack of elim vote manipulation.
  • I feel like with the foreknowledge of the flip, this implies some elim vote manip. 
• Realizes the vote manip exists. Doesn't realise village possibilities for vote manip.
  • Feels like an honest mistake and an elim slip. 
  • Or the vote manip person is evil.
• Acknowledges the other possibility
  • Not relevant
• Complains about Crocodile claiming. Elims don't want PMs.
  • Probably not the kill if protesting so much. 
  • Also, elims don't want PMs? Ha.
• Ties no kill.
  • Irrelevant

Based on conversations, Beagle, Crocodile, and Ostrich look less like original evil. Could have been hopped into though. 

I would do more thoughts, but I have to sleep now. Good night. See you tomorrow.

[Ivory Dragonfly]

1 hour ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Public note that looking for people who are not acting the same doesn't work: they have a doc they can talk in, the old owner can basically instruct them on how to talk.

 

Look for Elims using something else. Looking at you @Amber Vulture

but copy paste doesnt work so they have to rephrase

no one talks the same so there may be small clues

not that itll be easy but its something

unless kel says they can copy instructed phrasing from the converted which would be weird and against rules overall

[Amethyst Scorpion]

Dingo talks only about the message and what it might mean without landing on any assumption. They do the standard "don't claim" routine. They invalidated one of their own reads because "chaos."

@Charcoal Hyena I think you're town, what's your take on me?

@Amber Vulture PMd me asking my opinion on something, I gave it, the conversation ended. guess nothing interesting there.

[Melon Dingo]

15 hours ago, Magenta Albatross said:

Also, elims don't want PMs? Ha.

The more PMs there are, the more places there are for the Elims to slip up.

15 hours ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Dingo talks only about the message and what it might mean without landing on any assumption. They do the standard "don't claim" routine. They invalidated one of their own reads because "chaos."

Actually I was asking a question and pointing things out, and nobody's answered my question yet. Do Tineyes get to know anything special??? @Amethyst Scorpion, since you want me to make assumptions about the tineye message, please answer. I don't like making assumptions without information that contributes directly to the assumption.

And actually I didn't invalidate my read, I just moved it from 'no read' to "CONFUSION??????" The fact that I had a read at all meant I was paying attention to that player and that's good, because it means I'll continue to notice and (try to) read that player. (also no read is very different from null read IMO) I didn't invalidate my read, I said my read confused me.

As for the standard dont claim routine, is there a reason I shouldn't? I wasn't actually doing it for those nonexistant things called "village points," I was doing it because if one of each elantrian dies, elantrian actions have problems working, and I don't like that idea. Also because the roleclaim that's been made could make the claimer a target.edit: wrong game sri

Edited April 28, 2022 by Melon Dingo

[Amber Vulture]

11 hours ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Look for Elims using something else. Looking at you @Amber Vulture

Huh?

10 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Additionally, imbedded codes in past posts to prove identity don’t work either for the same reason

Yes, this is why I didn't bother :P.

@Ivory Dragonfly do you have any reads to share? If you had the choice to vote between Croc and Scorp to break the tie D1, what do you think you would have done?

1 hour ago, Melon Dingo said:

Do Tineyes get to know anything special??? 

Tineyes do not get any additional information about the game, though at their own discretion, they may communicate the information they've gathered via their own PMs in the anonymous message (not anonymous now :P).   

[Melon Dingo]

35 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Tineyes do not get any additional information about the game, though at their own discretion, they may communicate the information they've gathered via their own PMs in the anonymous message (not anonymous now :P).   

Thank you.

So the Tineye message could mean a lot or it could mean nothing. (why the "not anonymous now" comment?)

[Chartreuse Penguin]

2 hours ago, Melon Dingo said:

The more PMs there are, the more places there are for the Elims to slip up.

And yet Falcon made as many PMs as possible

15 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said:

So the Tineye message could mean a lot or it could mean nothing. (why the "not anonymous now" comment?)

Croc claimed Tineye yesterday.

I think I'm leaning more village on Croc now, and definitely leaning village on Scorp. I also am feeling village!Vulture and don't think the points on them hold a ton of ground. I know that I elim read Swan somewhat but I need to reread to refresh my memory on why- I think in part because of the Scorp vote, in my opinion that's the easy misexe route that elims would want to take. My dislike of Hyena is furthered for the same reason. So I'll probalby vote one of those two today, but I want to relook at Swan before I do anything.

@Indigo Weasel, what are your reads? I don't recall you ever mentioning them.

[Coral Swan]

3 hours ago, Melon Dingo said:

I was doing it because if one of each elantrian dies, elantrian actions have problems working, and I don't like that idea.

Wrong game.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Coral Swan

[Charcoal Hyena]

14 hours ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

@Charcoal Hyena I think you're town, what's your take on me?

Decent enough, I think?

22 hours ago, Coral Swan said:

Do you think Vulture's suspicion of Falcon last cycle fits with them being elim? Also, any thoughts on my notes abut Falcon's player interactions?

Yeah, plausibly. I mean, the only interaction the two had was Vulture mild reading Falcon Elim as far as I can see, which is certainly an interaction two elims would have- especially one that's about to body-hop.

Falcon maybe made all those PMs to fish out a role to hop into?

@<kel> official VC pls?

Edited April 28, 2022 by Charcoal Hyena

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

"Hello everyone, um. I have an announcement to make!" Cody says over the public comms network. The air is a lot clearer now, since the person responsible for flooding all of the messaging channels bit the dust.

"A Mistrunner who will stay anonymous recently contacted me. They're really nice. They had a lot of useful tips about close-quarters combat! But, um, that isn't what the announcement is about."

"I think I can set aside Scorpion for now. My SUPER TOP SECRET CONTACT says they know for sure that Albatross is an escaped SynthKandra. Or impersonated by one. Whatever. But they wanted me to tell everyone!!"

"Uh. Don't feel like you need to drop whatever your doing or stop discussing things that need discussing, but we should probably keep an eye out for Albatross, okay? Over and out."

[Amber Vulture]

12 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

"Hello everyone, um. I have an announcement to make!" Cody says over the public comms network. The air is a lot clearer now, since the person responsible for flooding all of the messaging channels bit the dust.

"A Mistrunner who will stay anonymous recently contacted me. They're really nice. They had a lot of useful tips about close-quarters combat! But, um, that isn't what the announcement is about."

"I think I can set aside Scorpion for now. My SUPER TOP SECRET CONTACT says they know for sure that Albatross is an escaped SynthKandra. Or impersonated by one. Whatever. But they wanted me to tell everyone!!"

"Uh. Don't feel like you need to drop whatever your doing or stop discussing things that need discussing, but we should probably keep an eye out for Albatross, okay? Over and out."

That’s convenient

 

 

Excellent.

Albatross 

[Salmon Meerkat]

12 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

A Mistrunner who will stay anonymous recently contacted me. They're really nice. They had a lot of useful tips about close-quarters combat! But, um, that isn't what the announcement is about."

Why would an alignment scanner claim to you without checking your alignment? I don't think anyone particularly trusted you.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

5 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

Why would an alignment scanner claim to you without checking your alignment? I don't think anyone particularly trusted you.

"Well, that's an interesting point! I'm not sure I get it 100%, but I think they were worried Albatross might get away."

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

@<kel> official VC pls?

im on painkillers rn 

y'all do it yourself i'll help tomorrow

pls let me rest if this is not urgent

[Salmon Meerkat]

47 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

"Well, that's an interesting point! I'm not sure I get it 100%, but I think they were worried Albatross might get away."

Did they say why they picked you, in particular? And why Albatross?

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

1 minute ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

Did they say why they picked you, in particular? And why Albatross?

Well we had a pretty long PM conversation, and they said they village read me, but idk other than that!

They haven't explained why Albatross. Maybe because they wanted somebody who wouldn't get kandra'd? That's my best guess.

[Ivory Dragonfly]

7 hours ago, Amber Vulture said:

do you have any reads to share? If you had the choice to vote between Croc and Scorp to break the tie D1, what do you think you would have done?

not a lot

id have broken in favor of scorpion i think

no solid opinion on croc and though i dont agree a lot with scorpion it seems honest

1 hour ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

"I think I can set aside Scorpion for now. My SUPER TOP SECRET CONTACT says they know for sure that Albatross is an escaped SynthKandra. Or impersonated by one. Whatever. But they wanted me to tell everyone!!"

thats enough for me

albatross

[Charcoal Hyena]

1 hour ago, <kel> said:

im on painkillers rn 

y'all do it yourself i'll help tomorrow

pls let me rest if this is not urgent

Well, I'll make it less urgent. Vulture Albatross.

[Indigo Weasel]

I got carried away, sorry xD

Seeing as we didn't get a kill on the first day, I think the best way to find scum is based on interaction with/from Falcon during the first day.

In order of appearance here is the interactions with Falcon:

1. Hyena: Hoping Falcon quick recovery from sickness.

2. Scorpion: Telling Falcon to stop PMing them. 

3. Falcon: Asks Scorpion why.

4. Scorpion: Doesn't want them and finds Falcon's PMs annoying. 

5. Falcon: Complies

6. Falcon: Comment about why voting first day is a good idea. 

7. Swan: Switches vote to Falcon for making all the PMs. 

8. Penguin: Thinks Falcon making PMs is NAI because both a scum or townie could do it.

9. Scorpion: Thinks effort clears are bad, but that the amount of effort that Falcon put into making the PMs doesn't make sense for a scum to do.

10. Myself: Thinks that the potentional reward for Falcon's PM stuff is higher for a scum rather than a townie.

11. Beagle: Comments on Falcon spam.

12. Albatross: Doesn't think Falcon's PM thing was AI like Penguin said.

13. Penguin: Gut town read on Falcon

14. Meerkat: Doesn't see what Falcon accomplishes by making so many PMs. Doesn't put forth an opinion of Falcon.

15. Vulture: Has Falcon as Mild Elim read. 

16. Penguin: Still prefers a Scorpion vote to a Falcon vote.

17. Falcon: Thinks that Scorpion's reaction to his PM stuff is townie. 

18. Falcon: Reads. Townie: Scorpion, Myself, Meerkat, and Dingo. Less sure townie: Penguin, Vulture, and Swan. Neutral: Mouse, Dragonfly, Crocodile, Hyena, Beagle. Scum: Ostrich, Albatross. Votes for Ostrich. 

19. Falcon: Claims they were expecting to form reads with the PM thing.

20. Dingo: Thinks that group PMs are scary. 

21. Penguin: Prefers Swan to Falcon

22. Vulture: If Swan flips scum, Falcon is likely town

23. Falcon: Thinks scum size is between 2-4.

24. Mouse: Has Falcon as scum read. 

25. Falcon: Would rather change vote to Crocodile than Scorpion.

And that is all we have from Day 1. At this point people's reads of Falcon fall under these catagories:

Read Falcon was Town: Scorpion, Penguin

Read Falcon was Scum: Swan, Myself, Vulture, Mouse

Read Falcon as Neutral: Albatross

Doesn't share feelings about Falcon: Meerkat, Crocodile, Dingo, Hyena, Beagle, Ostrich, Dragonfly

Now if we look at the first night with the same idea, this is what we get. 

1. Falcon: Allegedly doesn't notice vote manip. 

2. Falcon: Notices vote manip.

3. Swan: Points out to Falcon that someone might have been proving a role. 

4. Falcon: Comments on Swans point being possible. 

5. Falcon: Comment about wishing Crocodile hadn't claimed. 

6. Vulture: Counters Falcon on the fact that Crocodile was going to die because they claimed. 

7. Penguin: Says that scum like PMs, counter to what Falcon said. 

8. Falcon: Tells Ostrich that ties result in no death.

9. Myself: Asks Scorpion why their vote remained on Falcon even though they were in danger. 

10. Scorpion: Asks Falcon why they voted for a less active (Ostrich) rather than a more active. Town read for Falcon.

11. Vulture: Has Falcon in scum read.

After the night, none of people's reads for Falcon have changed publicly. 

Now if we go back to the first day real quick and looks at players votes for Falcon. Scorpion votes Falcon. Swan votes Falcon. Swan unvotes Falcon and votes for Scorpion when Falcon is tied up to die. Both of the players that voted for Falcon look kinda bad honestly. Scorpion votes Falcon for doing PMs, and later says they think Falcon looks town. Actually, looking back Scorpion didn’t say town, it was more a feeling of not-scum. So Scorpion voted for Falcon when they weren’t a scum read. Swan on the other hand leaves from voting Falcon when it becomes apparent that they might be dying from the lynch. 

 

Something else that stands out is players that commented about Falcon but didn’t actually give their own feelings about them. This includes Hyena, Beagle, Meerkat, and Dingo. 

 

Now lets put people animals in categories based on their reads vs Falcon’s reads of them. 

Reads Falcon as town + Falcon reads them as town: Scorpion, Penguin (Falcon’s read is less sure)

Reads Falcon as scum + Falcon reads them as town: Swan, Myself, Vulture

Reads Falcon as scum + Falcon reads them as neutral: Mouse

Reads Falcon as neutral + Falcon reads them as scum: Albatross

Doesn’t give read of Falcon + Falcon reads them as town: Meerkat, Dingo

Doesn’t give read of Falcon + Falcon reads them as neutral: Crocodile, Hyena, Beagle, Dragonfly

Doesn’t give read of Falcon + Falcon reads them as scum: Ostrich

 

So now that we have this information, what can we find with it. Swan and Scorpion, who look bad based on vote stuff are both in categories with other players. Players on their own are Mouse, Albatross, and Ostrich. So from everything so far we have these three categories of players:

Weird vote stuff: Scorpion and Swan

Commenting on Falcon without giving opinion stuff: Hyena, Beagle, Meerkat, and Dingo

Being on their own with reads of Falcon vs Falcon’s read of them stuff: Mouse, Albatross and Ostrich. 

 

With the first group, I’d be surprised if both of them were scum, but it’s possible. I think Swan looks worse here because they took their vote off when Falcon was pressured, but it’s worth not discarding Scorpion’s vote not following their read. Out of the next four, I think that Beagle and Meerkat stand out the most to me. Probably because they’ve posted a lot more in general than Hyena and Dingo and so I would have expected to see some reads from them even more. The last ones… I’m not sure. It’s interesting that both of Falcon’s scum reads fall under this last category. Mouse hadn’t yet posted so Falcon just threw them into neutral. Wouldn’t be surprised if Falcon was distancing from one of them. 

 

So from that, we narrow it down to Swan, Beagle, Meerkat, Albatross, and Ostrich. I’m pretty confident in there being at least one scum, probably even two. 

 

And now it looks like Ostrich is claiming that they were PMd by someone who scanned Albatross as scum. Interesting. The possibilities I see here include

1. Ostrich is scum and Albatross is town. In this case Ostrich is making it all up and has decided that it's worth it to take out a villager. Maybe to distract from scum that are up for the lynch. If that's the case, they aren't the one(s) on my list if there are any. In this case, they probably have a jump and are hoping they don't get coinshot. 

2. Ostrich is scum and Albatross is scum. In this case, they are deciding to sacrafice a teamate for massive town cred for Ostrich. 

3. Ostirch is town, their contact is town, and albatross is scum. In this case all parties are telling the truth and is best case scenario.

4. Ostrich is town, their contact is scum, and albatross is scum. This could be something where the 'scanner' gets massive cred instead of scenario 2 and then maybe fake village scans someone next turn and then 'scans' a town as scum to get them killed.

5. Ostirch is town, their contact is scum, and albatross is town. Basically same as 1, but going through an intimediary for some reason. 

6. Ostrich is town, their contact is town, and albatross is town. Uhhhhh... I don't know why they would do this xD

So is it worth trusting Ostirch? I think it is, without just dropping all other reads, because we can act during night with killers and next turns and if Ostrich is scum and somehow survives it'll waste one of their hops if they have one. I think the risks aren't high enough to not vote Albatross.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Indigo Weasel

[Amber Vulture]

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

1. Ostrich is scum and Albatross is town. In this case Ostrich is making it all up and has decided that it's worth it to take out a villager. Maybe to distract from scum that are up for the lynch. If that's the case, they aren't the one(s) on my list if there are any. In this case, they probably have a jump and are hoping they don't get coinshot.

Unlikely I'd say, given the fact that coinshots exist as you point out. Interesting choice of wording there, by the way. You mean sharpshooters, yes? You are either not as new as you seem, or you are an elim who's picked up on the Tyrian terminology in the elim doc. 

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

2. Ostrich is scum and Albatross is scum. In this case, they are deciding to sacrafice a teamate for massive town cred for Ostrich.

If both are elims, wouldn't it have been better for Ostrich to lead an exe against Alb instead of faking a scan? By claiming to be an intermediary for the actual seeker, e!Ostrich loses a large amount of village cred due to the fact that e!Ostrich cannot refuse to reveal a red scan when asked to by a v!seeker. *Flashbacks to LG83*

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

4. Ostrich is town, their contact is scum, and albatross is scum. This could be something where the 'scanner' gets massive cred instead of scenario 2 and then maybe fake village scans someone next turn and then 'scans' a town as scum to get them killed.

Possible, but if this is the case, the 'scanner' will really only get village cred from Ostrich solely because no one else knows who they are. 

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

5. Ostirch is town, their contact is scum, and albatross is town. Basically same as 1, but going through an intimediary for some reason.

This seems slightly more likely than 1 because the elims may have scanned Ostrich N1 to confirm that they aren't a coinshot. By choosing to only reveal themself to Ostrich, they are not in danger of dying to the coinshot (if one exists), and can safely bodyhop.

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

6. Ostrich is town, their contact is town, and albatross is town. Uhhhhh... I don't know why they would do this xD

*Flashbacks to AG8*

Edited April 28, 2022 by Amber Vulture

[Salmon Meerkat]

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

1. Ostrich is scum and Albatross is town. In this case Ostrich is making it all up and has decided that it's worth it to take out a villager. Maybe to distract from scum that are up for the lynch. If that's the case, they aren't the one(s) on my list if there are any. In this case, they probably have a jump and are hoping they don't get coinshot. 

2. Ostrich is scum and Albatross is scum. In this case, they are deciding to sacrafice a teamate for massive town cred for Ostrich. 

3. Ostirch is town, their contact is town, and albatross is scum. In this case all parties are telling the truth and is best case scenario.

4. Ostrich is town, their contact is scum, and albatross is scum. This could be something where the 'scanner' gets massive cred instead of scenario 2 and then maybe fake village scans someone next turn and then 'scans' a town as scum to get them killed.

5. Ostirch is town, their contact is scum, and albatross is town. Basically same as 1, but going through an intimediary for some reason. 

6. Ostrich is town, their contact is town, and albatross is town. Uhhhhh... I don't know why they would do this xD

So is it worth trusting Ostirch? I think it is, without just dropping all other reads, because we can act during night with killers and next turns and if Ostrich is scum and somehow survives it'll waste one of their hops if they have one. I think the risks aren't high enough to not vote Albatross.

It also matters how the order of actions works. Sharpshooter/Kill/Perfect Mimicry are all on the same line, so @<kel>

If a Kandra attempts to jump to a new body the same night as their current body gets Sharpshot, what happens? Is the jump successful or does the Kandra die?

If there's any chance of being Sharpshot, a lie is risky, and even if there wasn't it would waste a hop just to kill one villager, so Albatross.