Surge Differences Between Orders

[Wandering Shade]

We have info from WoBs and in universe conversations which say that the Surges manifest different for the different Orders. However, we don't really see that. We mostly see that whatever one Windrunner can do with Gravitation, a Skybreaker can also do with Gravitation, or that whatever an Elsecaller can do with Transformation, a Lightweaver can do. Discounting Renarin and Bondsmiths because they are the exception which prove the rule.

But upon reread, which I do a lot of, I think I can see a very good example of one time where we see a Surge manifest differently between orders.

In Oathbringer, when Kaladin is flying a group of people above a highstorm, he says that he's not just making them fall forwards like normal, he's also creating a sort of wind funnel around them, keeping them from all separating in the wind. I think that's a Windrunner only ability. Scientifically, Kal has created a bubble of higher pressure air around him and his friends, keeping the winds from disrupting them too much. That's Adhesion. While Adhesion sticks things together, its not with a chemical bond like glue, its with suction. Air pressure.

My theory is that every order of Knights Radiant uses a little of their other Surge whenever they use a Surge. Windrunner Basic Lashings also manipulate air pressure while their Full Lashings also manipulate gravity (maybe, I have no proof for this). Lightweaver, well, Lightweavings have a little bit of Soulcasting in them, adding extra substance to the illusion (see the Battle of Thaylen Field for a disputed example). If this theory is correct, that would explain why the Surges manifest differently between Orders, even if only in small ways. The Knights can't stop themselves from using a tiny amount of their other Surge whenever they use one.

However, I want to add one more thing to this, something I've seen most other people miss (and something I reeeeeeally want to ask Brandon about.) The Essences. Each Order is associated with an Essence, and while we normally think of these for Soulcasting as they play an important role in limiting that power, I think they're more important than just that. We don't know if that association is just cultural or if its magical, and even if it is just cultural then it might have become magical through the ways that the Cognitive Realm functions. If it is magical, then what happens if we change that association? What if he had a Windrunner who's essence was Blood instead of Wind? Would that change their powers at all? Would it change their Resonance?

Anyway, a question that I think should be asked at the next QnA with Brandon is: "Each Order of the Knights Radiant has two Surges they can use and an essence associated with them. Is that association simply cultural, or is it magical? Would changing the essence of an Order change they way they use their powers?"

[+Oltux72 he/him]

But if Windrunners use Adhesion to fly with less drag, they are using another Surge, not te same Surge differently.

[DiePie]

Isn't that pressure change the reverse lashing? Their resonance? Which in my mind is he unique expression of their powers.

[Wandering Shade]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

But if Windrunners use Adhesion to fly with less drag, they are using another Surge, not te same Surge differently.

They don't use Adhesion on purpose though, it just happens while they use Basic Lashings. I understand your argument, but I disagree, I think it counts as their Surges manifesting differently.

1 hour ago, DiePie said:

Isn't that pressure change the reverse lashing? Their resonance? Which in my mind is he unique expression of their powers.

The Reverse Lashing is using both Gravitation and Adhesion in equal parts. Spiritual Adhesion for the Connection powers and Gravitation to draw things in. But, the Reverse Lashing is not the Windrunner's resonance, that's their increased number of squires. Most other orders that have squires only get maybe 10 and they only have powers while relatively close, but Windrunners can have like 20 or 30 squires and while within 50 miles of their knight.

[DiePie]

Just now, Wandering Shade said:

Most other orders that have squires only get maybe 10 and they only have powers while relatively close, but Windrunners can have like 20 or 30 squires and while within 50 miles of their knight.

do we have confirmation on this? I saw someone mention it but assumed it was speculation. The way reverse lashings are treated in the books they seemed like a resonance, being an expression of the combination of 2 surges seems like what resonances are.

[Wandering Shade]

12 minutes ago, DiePie said:

do we have confirmation on this? I saw someone mention it but assumed it was speculation. The way reverse lashings are treated in the books they seemed like a resonance, being an expression of the combination of 2 surges seems like what resonances are.

Brandon has confirmed in multiple WoBs that the Windrunner's resonance is their Strength of Squires.

Quote

Questioner

So in The Stormlight Archive, they have the two Surges, and they have a third power effect, right?

Brandon Sanderson

They have kind of effects on each other, like a reverberation. Yes. I wouldn’t call it expressly a third power, I’d call it interactions.

Questioner

So, it seems like...you don’t have to confirm anything, but it seems like Kaladin is able to transfer his powers to his men following him…

Brandon Sanderson

The Windrunners are known for having lots of squires.

Questioner

That's the one I thought was really compelling. And the Skybreakers seem like they’re really good at hunting people down.

Brandon Sanderson

I’m not going to answer any of those! But good questions!

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

You're right about the Reverse Lashing being a combo of Gravitation and Adhesion. I see it as using Spiritual Adhesion's powers of Connection to choose the objects and then Gravitation to pull them in, so it actually wouldn't use air pressure in that way if my theory is right. But Resonances are an extra ability or trait related to the Knight's Surges but is not an extra Surge they can use. If that makes sense.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Wandering Shade
Cleaning up extra spaces

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:25 AM, Wandering Shade said:

The Reverse Lashing is using both Gravitation and Adhesion in equal parts. Spiritual Adhesion for the Connection powers and Gravitation to draw things in. But, the Reverse Lashing is not the Windrunner's resonance, that's their increased number of squires.

I'm actually not sure if I agree with this distinction, necessarily. The squires thing is definitely part of it, but why can't they be two facets of the same thing? The resonance may not be the squires specifically, but rather like... this idea of attracting something and bonding into one with it, Gravitation and Adhesion combined into a single thing, with the squire boost being a more abstract and passive representation and the Reverse Lashing a more concrete and active one.