What Hemalurgic Spikes did the Lord Ruler Have?

[Trusk'our he/him]

It is said in this WoB that the Lord Ruler had Hemalurgic spikes.

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Darxbane

In an annotation from book one, it is mentioned that The Lord Ruler needed all three magic systems in order to do what he did. I always assumed that it meant his Hemalurgy enhanced his Allomancy. Did Marsh get a double power, or is the Feruchemy-Allomancy combo enough? (a sidebar to this question is whether or not stacking abilities is possible through Hemalurgy)

Brandon Sanderson

He used Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects. Marsh didn't need them, but it makes things much easier.

It got me thinking, why would the Lord Ruler want Hemalurgic spikes in himself? Wouldn’t that just open himself up to Ruin’s influence more? Plus, he already has all of the powers of the Metallic Arts, so why would he even want them?

Here are a few ideas I had to explain why he would do this.

1. It may be that he had a Hemalurgic spike granting him Feruchemical gold. Even though he could already heal using his own Feruchemical compounding, he would still be subject to having his natural ability stolen by someone else via Hemalurgy. If he had another source granting him the ability to tap his goldminds though, he could survive the spiking and then use his health reserves to repair the damage done to him. This seems like the most logical ability he would have given himself, because of it would help secure his personal safety.

2. He may have somehow given himself the Blessing of Stability to aid in preventing insanity due to his unnaturally long life and the psychological pressures he was facing. I’m pretty sure he didn’t do this one because it should have warped him into a Hemalurgic construct, like a Koloss, but the benefit of such an enhancement would have been tempting to someone in a position like his. Not only that, but he had a intimate understanding of Hemalurgy due to his ascension, so if anyone could have found a way to bypass the mutating side-effects of Hemalurgically enhanced attributes, it would have been Rashek.

3. He gave himself enhanced Allomantic Soothing powers or Allomantic Steel powers. This would help explain why he was such a powerful Soother, or why he was able to push of trace metals in glass and stone, but he likely could have achieved these effects even without Hemalurgic spikes, since he had already made himself such a powerful Allomancer by using the Well of Ascension. He might have just done it to pull off these impressive effects with marginally less effort, seeing as how he seemed either too lazy or too prideful to kill people himself most of the time.

[NameIess]

I don't think that TLR had hemalurgic spikes. At the same Q&A that Brandon claimed TLR had hemalurgic spikes, he also said this:

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Dalenthas

Did the Lord Ruler have any Hemalurgic spikes in him? It would seem he'd need to for Ruin to influence him, but it wasn't mentioned. Or did his bracers work as spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

His arm bracers, which pierced his skin, were his spikes.

Footnote: Brandon later clarified this. The Lord Ruler's bracers pierced his skin to provide additional protection from Allomancy, but they were not hemalurgic spikes.
Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

That footnote I believe references this WoB that came much later:

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Questioner

Why in the world would the Lord Ruler spike himself?

Brandon Sanderson

...Because he needed to give himself the powers that he didn't have. He could have done it like-- gained the knowledge but the power was gone so fast he actually needed to-- Well no no no, the spikes, the spikes, the spikes. So, it doesn't matter if he was spiked because he was hiding the metals inside himself so people couldn't Push or Pull on them. That's the real reason he was doing that. Does that make sense?

Questioner

No.

Brandon Sanderson

Metal that's inside of him--

Questioner

Ruin influenced him, what did the spiking do?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, the metals that were stuck through him were so people couldn’t Push or Pull on them. If they were outside his body people would know he was a Feruchemist. Which is the very thing he was-- so he would stick the metals inside of himself to hide them.

Questioner

And he did that as Hemalurgic spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

I'd have to go back and look because-- Lord Ruler is he spiked or has he just got--

Isaac Stewart

I thought he was... spiked but I can't remem--

Brandon Sanderson

You're asking something that I wrote 12 years ago.

Isaac Stewart

Peter, was the Lord Ruler spiked?

Brandon Sanderson

Lord Ruler was spiked, right?  Or is it just--

Peter Ahlstrom

I don't think so.

Brandon Sanderson

--piereced with metalminds, right? They're not actual spikes, just metalminds.

And I want to ask the Sharders on there [the recorder] about that Lord Ruler question, because I didn’t think he was spiked but--

Isaac Stewart

I think I recall him having the bands with spikes in them?

Footnote: Brandon has previously stated that the Lord Ruler did in fact have Hemalurgic spikes.
Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

So it sounds to me like Brandon maybe originally had TLR as having spikes, but then realized that it wouldn't work very well from a lore perspective and decided to just say that TLR used the well to amplify his power. Or he could have just gotten confused when answering that first question. 

[cometaryorbit]

This whole question is possibly more confused by the WoB that being pierced with Invested metal can have weird effects in general.

So maybe being pierced by Invested metalminds let Ruin influence TLR, even if they weren't normal Hemalurgy. Especially since they were atium metalminds, Ruin's metal...*

But the "Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects" WoB does suggest real power-granting spikes. Boosted Soothing or Steelpushing do seem kind of plausible, as those are the powers he shows really extreme levels of.

*Although, technically, Ruin could touch some people's minds even without Hemalurgy- he induced Zane to spike himself. If TLR was open/unstable enough...

[NameIess]

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

This whole question is possibly more confused by the WoB that being pierced with Invested metal can have weird effects in general.

So maybe being pierced by Invested metalminds let Ruin influence TLR, even if they weren't normal Hemalurgy. Especially since they were atium metalminds, Ruin's metal...*

But the "Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects" WoB does suggest real power-granting spikes. Boosted Soothing or Steelpushing do seem kind of plausible, as those are the powers he shows really extreme levels of.

*Although, technically, Ruin could touch some people's minds even without Hemalurgy- he induced Zane to spike himself. If TLR was open/unstable enough...

TLR pulled that off by using the Well of Ascension to boost his powers to basically the maximum. He didn't need hemalurgy.

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Chris King

Did the Lord Ruler use lerasium to gain his super Allomantic abilities or did he grant that to himself with the Well's power? If he used the bead, does he count as one of the nine original Allomancers that Sazed mentions?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. He did not use the bead. He-- In all of this he granted himself basically, he rebuilt himself to be extremely powerful and he did not use one of the beads.

Chris King interview (Sept. 24, 2013)

Additionally, after his death his body turned to dust. There were no spikes in that dust. TLR didn't have a linchpin spike, which he would certainly have needed considering how many spikes he would have needed in order to meaningfully enhance his power. If he had that many spikes, he would certainly have been controllable by Ruin. 

[Duxredux he/him]

Here's a question: what do we think were TLR's most dramatic effects? A few candidates that come to mind are:

• Functional immortality
• Moving the planet / creating the Ashmounts (probably only done with the power of the Well of Ascension)
• Large scale Soothing
• Creating the Kandra, Koloss, and Steel Inquisitors
  • Changing all existing Feruchemists into Mistwraiths
• Anything else?

Only one of those looks like it requires Hemalurgy if you're Fullborn, though I guess he could have augmented his own abilities with spikes. I think it's possible that changing a human's Spiritweb with spikes to form something completely different might qualify as some of TLR's most dramatic effects. Further Hemalurgic experimentation has proven less successful, so it's not just spiking something, but really knowing what he was doing with the knowledge he gained at the Well of Ascension. I think that may be what that WoB was getting at, and that doesn't require TLR himself having any spikes. In fact, his knowledge of the serious downsides of his Hemalurgic creations probably would encourage him not to get Hemalurgically spiked if he didn't need to.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Duxredux

[cometaryorbit]

11 hours ago, Nameless said:

TLR pulled that off by using the Well of Ascension to boost his powers to basically the maximum. He didn't need hemalurgy.

I agree - but then what does the 'used Hemalurgy for his most dramatic effects' WoB mean?

11 hours ago, Nameless said:

TLR pulled that off by using the Well of Ascension to boost his powers to basically the maximum. He didn't need hemalurgy.

Additionally, after his death his body turned to dust. There were no spikes in that dust.

If his bracers were his spikes (as another WoB said) then they were already removed at the time of his death. Two bracers shouldn't require a linchpin spike.

The Steel Ministry / Inquisitors only knew how to use atium spikes to steal Allomantic Temporal powers, but TLR could have known more, so they could be any power.

8 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Here's a question: what do we think were TLR's most dramatic effects? A few candidates that come to mind are:

• Functional immortality
• Moving the planet / creating the Ashmounts (probably only done with the power of the Well of Ascension)
• Large scale Soothing
• Creating the Kandra, Koloss, and Steel Inquisitors
  • Changing all existing Feruchemists into Mistwraiths
• Anything else?

I'd add controlling Koloss in huge numbers (from WoA it seems that it was considered a 'divine' power of TLR) and Steelpushing on metals inside the body.

Both of those are just crazy Allomantic strength, though.

(Changing the Feruchemists to Mistwraiths was also using the Well, btw)

 

8 hours ago, Duxredux said:

 changing a human's Spiritweb with spikes to form something completely different might qualify as some of TLR's most dramatic effects. Further Hemalurgic experimentation has proven less successful, so it's not just spiking something, but really knowing what he was doing with the knowledge he gained at the Well of Ascension. I think that may be what that WoB was getting at, and that doesn't require TLR himself having any spikes.

Hmm, that's a possibility. It's not really what that WoB seems to be implying, but there have been tricky WoBs before.

[NameIess]

19 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I agree - but then what does the 'used Hemalurgy for his most dramatic effects' WoB mean?

It means that either:

1. Brandon wasn't paying attention closely or got confused and answered the question wrong

2. Brandon originally had TLR as being spiked and has henceforth changed that

3. Brandon was being intentionally obtuse.

25 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

If his bracers were his spikes (as another WoB said) then they were already removed at the time of his death. Two bracers shouldn't require a linchpin spike.

The Steel Ministry / Inquisitors only knew how to use atium spikes to steal Allomantic Temporal powers, but TLR could have known more, so they could be any power.

Two spikes would never give substantial benefit to a Well of Ascension enhanced Fullborn.

 

[cometaryorbit]

11 hours ago, Nameless said:

It means that either:

1. Brandon wasn't paying attention closely or got confused and answered the question wrong

2. Brandon originally had TLR as being spiked and has henceforth changed that

3. Brandon was being intentionally obtuse.

Two spikes would never give substantial benefit to a Well of Ascension enhanced Fullborn.

 

Those are all quite possible.

As for benefit... well, that's another weird bit. Sazed/Harmony (who should know) says in the HoA Epigraphs that TLR's base Allomantic strength was shared by all the original nine Allomancers (and therefore Elend).

If his base strength was Elend level, I think one spike for a specific metal would mean a notable improvement in power.

But his displayed strength seems significantly greater, at least in Soothing and Steelpushing. I can see four explanations for that, but none are really satisfactory...

1. Canon was changed, his base strength is way higher since he got his Allomancy from the Well not lerasium - but would Brandon obsolete the epigraphs like that?

2. His base strength is Elend level, but "near savant" effects from a thousand years of practice (and he could actually be a full savant in Soothing at least) mean he's above that level. This is supported by a WoB, but it would be a pretty big boost.

3. Some kind of Feruchemy trick... also apparently supported by WoB, but by our current understanding that would need Nicrosil and I don't think that existed in the Final Empire

4. He had spikes for at least Soothing and Steelpushing (the two metals we see clearly crazy levels of power in*)

*TLR can also pierce copperclouds (at least Kelsier/Vin-era reduced power ones) but Lerasium Mistborn strength would be enough for that.

[NameIess]

36 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Those are all quite possible.

As for benefit... well, that's another weird bit. Sazed/Harmony (who should know) says in the HoA Epigraphs that TLR's base Allomantic strength was shared by all the original nine Allomancers (and therefore Elend).

If his base strength was Elend level, I think one spike for a specific metal would mean a notable improvement in power.

But two spikes, even two Lerasium Mistborn level spikes, wouldn't allow him to do what he did.

40 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

1. Canon was changed, his base strength is way higher since he got his Allomancy from the Well not lerasium - but would Brandon obsolete the epigraphs like that?

2. His base strength is Elend level, but "near savant" effects from a thousand years of practice (and he could actually be a full savant in Soothing at least) mean he's above that level. This is supported by a WoB, but it would be a pretty big boost.

3. Some kind of Feruchemy trick... also apparently supported by WoB, but by our current understanding that would need Nicrosil and I don't think that existed in the Final Empire

4. He had spikes for at least Soothing and Steelpushing (the two metals we see clearly crazy levels of power in*)

*TLR can also pierce copperclouds (at least Kelsier/Vin-era reduced power ones) but Lerasium Mistborn strength would be enough for that.

1. We see in the books that Sazed is wrong about TLR having the same power level as a normal Lerasium mistborn, so that epigraph is already obsolete.

2. It's possible that savantism played a role in his abilities/

3. Yeah, I don't think he had access to Nicrosil.

4. Two spikes, even if he collected them from a lerasium mistborn, would not be enough. less than doubling his steelpushing and soothing powers would not have had that great of an effect.

[cometaryorbit]

50 minutes ago, Nameless said:

But two spikes, even two Lerasium Mistborn level spikes, wouldn't allow him to do what he did.

1. We see in the books that Sazed is wrong about TLR having the same power level as a normal Lerasium mistborn, so that epigraph is already obsolete.

2. It's possible that savantism played a role in his abilities/

3. Yeah, I don't think he had access to Nicrosil.

4. Two spikes, even if he collected them from a lerasium mistborn, would not be enough. less than doubling his steelpushing and soothing powers would not have had that great of an effect.

I don't know. Some of these things appear to be threshold based, not linear. Vin has less than double Seeking power but she can pierce copperclouds, which is considered flat out impossible. Kelsier at first can't even believe TLR could do it. Yet Vin just does it.

Koloss control is also a threshold- no effect until you break through, then total control, and you can control tons of them.

So Steelpushing on metals in people's bodies might be the same way - fairly easy if you reach the threshold, impossible otherwise.

Also, Elend had way less practice than TLR, and we don't see him try some of these things so we can compare. I don't think we ever get a good picture of how large a human crowd he can Soothe (we do learn he controlled tens of thousands of koloss).

So can we really rule out the possibility that TLR's Soothing is say 3x normal strength while Elend's is 2x, or even that if Elend became a Soothing Savant he could do as much as TLR did?

Edited January 25, 2022 by cometaryorbit
remove repeated word

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't know. Some of these things appear to be threshold based, not linear. Vin has less than double Seeking power but she can pierce copperclouds, which is considered flat out impossible. Kelsier at first can't even believe TLR could do it. Yet Vin just does it.

Koloss control is also a threshold- no effect until you break through, then total control, and you can control tons of them.

So Steelpushing on metals in people's bodies might be the same way - fairly easy if you reach the threshold, impossible otherwise.

Also, Elend had way less practice than TLR, and we don't see him try some of these things so we can compare. I don't think we ever get a good picture of how large a human crowd he can Soothe (we do learn he controlled tens of thousands of koloss).

So can we really rule out the possibility that TLR's Soothing is say 3x normal strength while Elend's is 2x, or even that if Elend became a Soothing Savant he could do as much as TLR did?

Wasn't Elend starting to feel stretched by the number of Kolloss he controlled? TLR controlled every single Kolloss, which I believe numbered in the hundreds of thousands, for a thousands years. That's more than double the number that Elend controlled.

[cometaryorbit]

34 minutes ago, Nameless said:

 TLR controlled every single Kolloss, which I believe numbered in the hundreds of thousands, for a thousands years. That's more than double the number that Elend controlled.

I don't know, on two levels.

I think the koloss increased their numbers by spiking people under Ruin's control after he escaped the Well, so the hundreds of thousands in the final battle in HoA are probably more than existed in TLR's time. (Though there must have been tens of thousands as Lekal's koloss army in WoA is about 20,000, and there must have been koloss elsewhere.)

I'm also not sure TLR directly controlled all the koloss all the time. If they were stationed out in the middle of nowhere they might not have needed control, he kept them away from civilization for a reason (if he was 100% in control constantly would that have been needed)?

And the Inquisitors probably controlled some, anyway.

EDIT: also, I don't think we can assume it's linear, in the sense that 2x power = 2x the number of koloss controlled.

Vin takes control with a duralumin burn, but then doesn't have to keep doing it... in fact she doesn't need to burn brass at all to keep control once established. I think this is a weird threshold thing hard to extrapolate from.

That's why I'm not willing to say that Elend could necessarily Soothe 50,000 humans at once just because we see him control 50,000 koloss.

Edited January 25, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't know, on two levels.

I think the koloss increased their numbers by spiking people under Ruin's control after he escaped the Well, so the hundreds of thousands in the final battle in HoA are probably more than existed in TLR's time. (Though there must have been tens of thousands as Lekal's koloss army in WoA is about 20,000, and there must have been koloss elsewhere.)

I'm also not sure TLR directly controlled all the koloss all the time. If they were stationed out in the middle of nowhere they might not have needed control, he kept them away from civilization for a reason (if he was 100% in control constantly would that have been needed)?

And the Inquisitors probably controlled some, anyway.

The thing is, the koloss didn't get any new spikes. They only made new koloss out of their existing spikes. TLR keeping the koloss away from cities probably came from the fact that even Ruin couldn't perfectly control them during rampages. The inquisitors may have controlled smaller groups of koloss on occasion, but do you really think that TLR trusted them enough to let the permanently control large sections of his army?

[cometaryorbit]

20 minutes ago, Nameless said:

The thing is, the koloss didn't get any new spikes. They only made new koloss out of their existing spikes.

Wait, do we know that?

We know they did in fact reuse spikes, but is that the *only* way they made new koloss? We see Ruin directing humans who don't know what they are doing to make Hemalurgic spikes (e.g. dude who stabbed Spook), I figured he did the same with koloss.

25 minutes ago, Nameless said:

TLR keeping the koloss away from cities probably came from the fact that even Ruin couldn't perfectly control them during rampages.

Good point.

26 minutes ago, Nameless said:

The inquisitors may have controlled smaller groups of koloss on occasion, but do you really think that TLR trusted them enough to let the permanently control large sections of his army?

I thought there was something in the annotations at least implying that's how it worked (Inquisitors controlling koloss) in the campaigns on the burnlands edge against bandits/rebels/etc. I will have to look for that.

I think TLR had no fear of Inquisitor rebellion. There's no way an Inquisitor could expect that to work. TLR could instakill them from a distance (and they knew about their linchpin spike weakness).

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

perhaps his soothing/steelpushing abilities were boosted by small bits of lerasium alloy he shaved off the other beads?

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

Wait, do we know that?

We know they did in fact reuse spikes, but is that the *only* way they made new koloss? We see Ruin directing humans who don't know what they are doing to make Hemalurgic spikes (e.g. dude who stabbed Spook), I figured he did the same with koloss.

We don't know that they did, and I don't remember anything implying that they did.

10 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I thought there was something in the annotations at least implying that's how it worked (Inquisitors controlling koloss) in the campaigns on the burnlands edge against bandits/rebels/etc. I will have to look for that.

I think TLR had no fear of Inquisitor rebellion. There's no way an Inquisitor could expect that to work. TLR could instakill them from a distance (and they knew about their linchpin spike weakness).

Inquisitors did control koloss to put down rebellions, but did TLR let them control the koloss when they don't need to? I don't think TLR would do that, no matter how sure he was of his control over the inquisitors.

[cometaryorbit]

48 minutes ago, Nameless said:

We don't know that they did, and I don't remember anything implying that they did.

Inquisitors did control koloss to put down rebellions, but did TLR let them control the koloss when they don't need to? I don't think TLR would do that, no matter how sure he was of his control over the inquisitors.

I will have to check the annotations and Secret History. I thought there were way more koloss in the final HoA battle than TLR ever had.

I see TLR as being way more arrogant than that. He set up the Inquisitors with weaknesses, and he set up the social classes to prevent another Fullborn, but after doing so, I don't think he feared anything (except, in saner moments, Ruin). He saw himself as immortal and invincible. When he's told that the skaa are rebelling, he's resigned and annoyed at their foolishness, not concerned - even when Marsh and Vin attack, he doesn't take them seriously at all (he could have killed Vin before she had a chance to draw on the Mists).

He lets the Inquisitors plot against the Canton of Orthodoxy, and the noble houses fight one another.

[NameIess]

59 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I will have to check the annotations and Secret History. I thought there were way more koloss in the final HoA battle than TLR ever had.

I see TLR as being way more arrogant than that. He set up the Inquisitors with weaknesses, and he set up the social classes to prevent another Fullborn, but after doing so, I don't think he feared anything (except, in saner moments, Ruin). He saw himself as immortal and invincible. When he's told that the skaa are rebelling, he's resigned and annoyed at their foolishness, not concerned - even when Marsh and Vin attack, he doesn't take them seriously at all (he could have killed Vin before she had a chance to draw on the Mists).

He lets the Inquisitors plot against the Canton of Orthodoxy, and the noble houses fight one another.

TLR was overconfident, but he was also smart. His system was designed to keep things under his control. He played the nobles and inquisitors against each other, he used his own reputation to great effect, and was smart enough to implement the soothing stations. Giving permanent control of koloss to inquisitors would probably not be a good idea. Even if he did let them have control over sections of his army for extended periods of time, it would be small sections. Letting them control all of them would be a bad idea.

Regardless of exactly how powerful TLR is, as @HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? mentioned, using lerasium would be far superior. He had not just one but two leftover beads, and using them to give himself extra power would be infinitely better than giving someone lerasium, then killing them with hemalurgy.

[Infinity Sliver]

42 minutes ago, Nameless said:

TLR was overconfident, but he was also smart. His system was designed to keep things under his control. He played the nobles and inquisitors against each other, he used his own reputation to great effect, and was smart enough to implement the soothing stations. Giving permanent control of koloss to inquisitors would probably not be a good idea. Even if he did let them have control over sections of his army for extended periods of time, it would be small sections. Letting them control all of them would be a bad idea.

Regardless of exactly how powerful TLR is, as @HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? mentioned, using lerasium would be far superior. He had not just one but two leftover beads, and using them to give himself extra power would be infinitely better than giving someone lerasium, then killing them with hemalurgy.

ok,stupid question but why would TLR burning lerasium make him more powerful? He didnt use the beads to make himself a mistborn,rather the power of Preservation itself so wouldnt he be maxed out on that side? Short of using the mists,all he had left was compounding

[NameIess]

Just now, Infinity Sliver said:

ok,stupid question but why would TLR burning lerasium make him more powerful? He didnt use the beads to make himself a mistborn,rather the power of Preservation itself so wouldnt he be maxed out on that side? Short of using the mists,all he had left was compounding

I do think that TLR burning Lerasium would have had no effect, but if for some reason he had made himself equal to a normal Lerasium mistborn, he could've burned one of the two lerasium beads and become more powerful, rather than resorting to hemalurgy.

[cometaryorbit]

Oh, I definitely don't think it would have made a lot of sense for TLR to make himself stronger using Hemalurgy. He knew about Ruin, and he was already a crazy strong Allomancer.

But the WoB that began this thread does kind of sound like he did, so...

But it could easily just be misunderstood/tricky. Creating the Kandra and koloss species could be the "dramatic effects" achieved through Hemalurgy, as @Duxreduxsuggested, not personal power enhancement.

[Duxredux he/him]

Thought of a possible spike that could make sense for TLR to have. The Hemalurgic Table says that H-Chromium "might steal destiny". Now we only get Alendi's log book and Rashek's later actions, but unless there was some bigger underlying reason for Rashek's behavior (which we know there was), Rashek and his personality seems an odd candidate to be attuned to the powers of Preservation. If I remember right, the Well was an attuning force to allow someone to take up the power of Preservation (though clearly this isn't required), but does someone using the power still need to be attuned/destined to Preservation? Did Rashek kill Alendi and steal his destiny?

The catch is that Vin had to remove her earring in order to use the power. Also the question of where Rashek got access to Chromium. Maybe there are weird shenanigans if the spike is specifically attuning you to the power/destiny? I could totally see hijacking destiny to become a Sliver as one of the most dramatic effects, though it's still an obtuse answer. As for why TLR didn't seem to be spiked when he died, he wouldn't need the spike after ascending and probably could have just healed himself

Edited February 5, 2022 by Duxredux
Tweaks for clarity

[Duxredux he/him]

And one more thought after another reread. I might have been reading that WoB wrong. I think Brandon's answer might be talking about Marsh the whole time.

[cometaryorbit]

I don't think TLR wanted to die (at that point) - he knew the Well was about to refill and he definitely (from Secret History) intended to use the power again - he says he would have "again ransomed this undeserving planet".

I think he was basically an Atium Compounding Savant, and when his bracers were removed, not only did he suddenly begin dying of super accelerated old age, but I think his spiritweb was messed up too.