On what we know about the Horneater Language

[Zoey]

I am working on breaking down the Unkalaki language and trying to relate some of it to what we know about the Dawnchant, and the even less we know about the Shin Language. I would be grateful for assistance. 

 

Unkalaki:

 

Phonology:

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In terms of Vowels, we can see that they are shown ratehr simply, and we have a clear depiction of when vowels are seperated, for the most part, with them being seperated by a '. As seen in ali'i'kamura, this means we can quite easily see why digraphs are, and long vowels. 

We can see in alaii'iku that long vowels likely exist, with it seeming to depict a long ai dipthong. Or, if I am wrong, could mean a-ii  or even just ai-i. It is hard to tell in text alone. 

In terms of digraphs we have ua, au, and ai. Otherwise it appears to follow a simple five vowel system. We know that the Horneater tongue is very heavily based on Polynesian tongues, so I am going to assume this is based on Maori, which has very similar orthography. 

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au is a diphthong, but ua is a sequence (of unlike vowels). For au there is a clear audible and acoustic difference in the quality of both the a and the u as compared to their monophthong (single vowel) equivalents. However the vowel qualities of ua are very similar to their monophthong equivalents.

http://www.maorilanguage.info/mao_phon_desc1.html

So assume that au is a dipthong, but ua  is pronounced as u-a. It also appears to have an alternate vowel signified by ay seen in Mohoray

In consonants, we know it has b, v, f, m, p, n, h, r, l, k, and c.

Due to the already existing presence of k, and the lack of an s, it is most likely the c is meant to represent some form of fricative. Likely the voiceless alveolar fricative. Though could possibly be ð, as it represents in Fijian, an Malayo-Polynesian language. But the s reading is more likely. 

Phonotactics allow for clusters of rt (umarti'a), lk (tuma'alki), lm (Tuaka'li'na'calmi'nor) and also h'l, though this, while common, is always broken up. The language otherwise actively tries to avoid consonant clusters, it also appears to have little to no codas, and always tends towards open syllables. The only consonants that seem to be allowed to end a coda are r and l, seen in Hotental, Lunamor, Tuaka'li'na'calmi'nor. Even the things that seem to be clusters ultimately also have an r or l. 

Therefore we must be also open to the possibility these are not clusters, but are rather closed syllables placed right before the consonant onset of another syllable. This would explain why all examples of these "clusters" are ones that have a consonant that is known to be one of the few consonants that are allowed to act as a coda. This, I feel, is the more likely possibility. 

 

Grammer:

We can make out that the language is highly agglutinative, with various affixes appended to a root word in order to change the meaning or encode more information into it. 

Mafah'liki for example has "liki" which cord told us is "of mind". It also contains "mafah" which is extremely similar to "malah" which is one of the words in the Dawnchant excerpt that we have. This means that we can tell that it works through the appending of suffixes.

Through the way that various Unkalaki speak, we can expect that it is a language that has a heavy presence of linguistic gender, using masculine and thus most likely also feminine in pronouns, and applying it to even inanimate objects. "take everything you have, and put him in pot", this likely also suggests the lack of a definite grammatical article.

Extra Note: Lunu'anaki is the god of travel and mischief who cannot hurt man, Hoid. "You're crazy! You're ana'kai crazy." this could mean that the anaki  in the name is related to being crazy, or that ana'kai comes from Lunu'anaki. Or they are unrelated and ana'kai means something like f-cking or whatever. 

 

Shin:

 

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Tan balo ken tala, 

The only full phrase in Shin- Way of Kings, Interlude I-4

Phonology:

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The Shin have seem to developed into a far more consonant heavy language than Unkalaki, as we can mainly see in names, 

Szeth

• Thresh-son-Esan
• Neturo-son-Vallano
• Shauka-daughter-Hasweth
• Ali-daughter-Hasweth
• Shubreth-son-Mashalan

They appear to retain the au present in Unkalaki, or they possibly both developed it before splitting, or even independently, if not present in the original Dawnchant tongue. 

They posses various consonants not shown in Unkalaki, such as Th, Sh, Z, and W. They are also much more accepting of consonant clusters. Seen in Hasweth, Shubreth, and Thresh. These all appear to be using a glide following a consonant. With it only happening with r and w  as far as we can see. That is outside of Szeth, which is sub-vocalized.

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Questioner

How do you pronounce Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson

I say Jasnah. But you may say whatever you want.

Questioner

And then is it Szeth?

Brandon Sanderson

Szeth.

Ben McSweeney

The "s" is more silent than the "z" but it is sort of sub-vocalized. Szeth.

 

 

Grammer:

 

 

Dawnate:

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Anak malah kaf, del makian habin yah. 

Only full phrase in Dawnchant

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Edited January 8, 2022 by Zoey

[Olmund]

I appreciate the fact that you've taken initiative on this, and I hope more of our fellow linguistics nerds contribute (there have been some past topics on Rosharan ConLangs, but it's been a while). I can't make any promises, but I made a few notes a while ago and I'll share them if I can dig them out of a drawer somewhere.

Just a quick note on /c/ in horneater -- I think it's very unlikely to be a voiceless alveolar fricative, because otherwise the language has a very straightforward transcription into Latin orthography. I don't see Brandon using the "c" character instead of the straightforward "s" character just for fun, and in real world orthographies /c/ is only ever allophonically realized as [ s ] and only that in a handful of languages. Its primary pronunciation is always something different -- usually [k] or [tʃ].

I'd say the most likely candidate for the pronunciation of /c/ is the affricate [tʃ], given the precedent of Malay and Indonesian /c/ being pronounced [tʃ]. If it is a fricative, it's more likely to be a palatal/velar/pharyngeal (or perhaps the Fijian voiced interdental that you mentioned). It could also be a palatal stop, as some languages do distinguish between velar and palatal stops (and IPA uses the character "c" to mean that sound).

Edited January 18, 2022 by Olmund
Formatting/code error strikethrough

[ConfusedCow]

You're over my head with the linguistics, though I appreciate the depth of your analysis. 

Here's one thought, Coppermind claims Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor  means "I saw a beautiful wet stone that no one is paying attention to, but it was really cool because of the water pattern on it". 

Let's rewrite the poem as 'a water pattern, unnoticed on a beautiful rock'.   Numuhuku might mean water pattern.  'Ula'makai means captain.  So I think makai or makia means warrior and makiaki'aia means warrior hiding or warrior unnoticed.  Lunamor of course means beautiful rock.  Hawiian and Unkalaki cultures have a lot of animism and spirituality, so 'beauty' and 'pattern' probably mean something like blessed and sacred.  So my guess is that Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor means both 'a water pattern unnoticed on a beautiful rock' and 'a water blessed warrior hiding a sacred stone'.  

 

[+Oltux72]

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

I am working on breaking down the Unkalaki language and trying to relate some of it to what we know about the Dawnchant, and the even less we know about the Shin Language. I would be grateful for assistance. 

 

Unkalaki:

 

Phonology:

---

In terms of Vowels, we can see that they are shown ratehr simply, and we have a clear depiction of when vowels are seperated, for the most part, with them being seperated by a '. As seen in ali'i'kamura, this means we can quite easily see why digraphs are, and long vowels. 

This being based on Polynesian, the conservative assumption that the apostrophe represents a glottal stop. That is ua and u'a are potentially different words.

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

In consonants, we know it has b, v, f, m, p, n, h, r, l, k, and c.

There is also a t, but no d.
That is highly interesting, as the system is asymmetric. There is a contrast betwenn p and b, but there is no g to contrast to the k.

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

Due to the already existing presence of k, and the lack of an s, it is most likely the c is meant to represent some form of fricative. Likely the voiceless alveolar fricative. Though could possibly be ð, as it represents in Fijian, an Malayo-Polynesian language. But the s reading is more likely.

It may be a palatal fricative, too. If it were an s, why not just write that?

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

 We can make out that the language is highly agglutinative, with various affixes appended to a root word in order to change the meaning or encode more information into it.

 

No, we do not know that. These may be compound words, not suffixes. And that is important.

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

Mafah'liki for example has "liki" which cord told us is "of mind".

 

It may just be "mind" and we have a classical compound here.

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

 

It also contains "mafah" which is extremely similar to "malah" which is one of the words in the Dawnchant excerpt that we have. This means that we can tell that it works through the appending of suffixes.

 

No, we cannot. In fact the scant evidence we have is against it. There seems to be no difference between "Horneater" and "Horneaters"

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

 

Through the way that various Unkalaki speak, we can expect that it is a language that has a heavy presence of linguistic gender, using masculine and thus most likely also feminine in pronouns, and applying it to even inanimate objects.

 

Debatable. We may also have a case where the Horneaters do not get why it is sometimes supposed to be "he", "it" or "she".

On 8.1.2022 at 5:08 AM, Zoey said:

 

"take everything you have, and put him in pot", this likely also suggests the lack of a definite grammatical article.

Yes