[Poll] Who is going to die?

[Circumlocutions]

Personally I think Adolin won't make it

[AquaRegia he/him]

33 minutes ago, Brightness Windrunner said:

Personally I think Adolin won't make it

While I admit this is a possibility, I really hope it does not come to pass, because both the story and Shallan need him.  He's one of the few POV characters who doesn't challenge the reader to empathize with constant self-doubt or serious mental illness; without him I fear the story gets unbearably dark.  And if he dies, I can only see Shallan going completely off the deep end, with absolutely nothing good coming of that.  I don't even think I'd want to keep reading.

I think Venli and/or Kaladin are our most likely future casualties.

I'd also note that two of your poll options - Taln and Jasnah - are already known to be flashback POV characters in SA Arc 2 novels.  Doesn't NECESSARILY rule them out, but...

Edited December 12, 2021 by Ookla of Axi
fact check

[Frustration]

Dalinar is the only one that I will give a "maybe" on, and even then most likely not.

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

Kaladin and Szeth. Taln can't because he's got a flashback book (though I guess Eshonai did, too...)

[+Bzhydack he/him]

I vote for Kaladin and Renarin. 

Kaladin, because glorious sacrifice suits him.

Renarin, because new Odium is painfully aware how dangerous he can be with mere presence.

And side question.

Whats with all these OOklas?

Edited December 13, 2021 by Bzhydack

[Robin Sedai she/her]

Here is a thread that will explain it:

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/87688-whats-with-all-the-ooklas-2019-edition/

[Milk]

11 hours ago, Ookla of Axi said:

While I admit this is a possibility, I really hope it does not come to pass, because both the story and Shallan need him.  He's one of the few POV characters who doesn't challenge the reader to empathize with constant self-doubt or serious mental illness; without him I fear the story gets unbearably dark.  And if he dies, I can only see Shallan going completely off the deep end, with absolutely nothing good coming of that.  I don't even think I'd want to keep reading.

I think Venli and/or Kaladin are our most likely future casualties.

I'd also note that two of your poll options - Taln and Jasnah - are already known to be flashback POV characters in SA Arc 2 novels.  Doesn't NECESSARILY rule them out, but...

Brandon has, on numerous occasions, mentioned that flashback characters could be dead in the present time of their book; here and here, for example. (Also, don't forget Renarin! Who are you, Dalinar?)

[Circumlocutions]

On 12/12/2021 at 2:41 PM, Ookla of Axi said:

I'd also note that two of your poll options - Taln and Jasnah - are already known to be flashback POV characters in SA Arc 2 novels.  Doesn't NECESSARILY rule them out, but...

I don't think they are going to die or really even a possibility, I just wanted to have a 10 options and one person for each order but I ran out of ideas pretty quick if you couldn't tell.

[AquaRegia he/him]

Hahaha I didn't even notice you had ten, in "Order" order!  Well played.

Now that I look, I see Adolin in the Edgedancer spot and "no one" in the Dustbringer spot.  I kind of hope that Malata dies - she gives me the willies.

On 12/13/2021 at 5:31 AM, Milk said:

Brandon has, on numerous occasions, mentioned that flashback characters could be dead in the present time of their book; here and here, for example. (Also, don't forget Renarin! Who are you, Dalinar?)

Touché!

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Stormfather. He is definitely going to die. 

Killing Taln would be amazing. It has always been my secret prediction for book 5. Infact book 5 might actually kill all the remaining male heralds. Taln especially because I can't imagine Taln as a protagonist in the same way as Ash, I can't think of a character arc for him. Ash will be our dustbringer character, and we will see her grow I think.Also how would she react to Taln dying? That is exciting

[Frustration]

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Stormfather. He is definitely going to die. 

Killing Taln would be amazing. It has always been my secret prediction for book 5. Infact book 5 might actually kill all the remaining male heralds. Taln especially because I can't imagine Taln as a protagonist in the same way as Ash, I can't think of a character arc for him. Ash will be our dustbringer character, and we will see her grow I think.Also how would she react to Taln dying? That is exciting

Talk has been a main character from the start of the series, and Brandon has all but confirmed that he will be playing a role in the back 5.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

34 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Talk has been a main character from the start of the series

True but a lot of things are different from WoK prime and even there the main thing about his character was if he actually was Taln or not, a plotline that Brandon has dropped. Also he had a love story with Jasnah, but Hoid's taken that place. 

Also Taln is probably the stoneward character if Ash is going to be the dustbringer character. Ash has a very possible clear trajectory of swearing dustbringer ideals one by one. But, how much more of a stoneward could Taln be?  It would be more interesting to have a new character who is beginning to swear the stoneward ideals one by one. If the the time skip takes a full 15 years, my dumb guess is on Gavinor( because almost all kholins are radiant and Brandon has clearly set up something for gav with szeth and Moash (Don't really believe in child champion theory)). If Taln is alive, I still see him as a mentor figure to the new stoneward radiant than actually having an arc himself.

Also Brandon has guaranteed that a flashback character doesnt have to be alive. I don't think Renarin, lift, Ash are going to die anytime before their books. Jasnah is supposed to be book 10 so I can see her dying, but that would be a shame. So Taln is the best candidate for a dead flashback character.

There is a good chance that Taln heroically sacrifices himself after suddenly gaining his lucidity in book 5. Which will shake Ash out of her apathy towards humanity and start her character arc.

36 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

and Brandon has all but confirmed that he will be playing a role in the back 5.

Is there a WoB that completely contradicts me? 

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

but Hoid's taken that place. 

Not so actually, and that's why Taln will live

A few WoB's one very long

Spoiler

Phantine

By the way, the chapters from Way of Kings Prime were pretty interesting when I read them in the [Altered Perceptions] anthology. I assume the rest of the book at the moment is still pretty spoilery... about where in The Stormlight Archive series would you consider it 'caught up' enough to do something with the rest of WoK'?

Brandon Sanderson

Unfortunately, one of the ways I made the series work was by splitting the character into two groupings, and doing half in the first five and half in the second. This means that WoK Prime doesn't spoil anything for Dalinar/Kaladin/Shallan. But it has huge spoilers for books six and seven, with Jasnah and Taln. So it will be a while.

General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 16, 2015)

 

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventeen

As I was working on the annotation for last week’s chapter, I realized it was touching on something I wanted to talk about in a more substantive way. So I decided to put that annotation off and make a separate, longer and more in-depth, post about it. This WILL have some small spoilers for the book, specifically some things to do with Jasnah and her sexual identity. If you’d rather just read it as it comes up in the story, then I’d suggest you head away now--and you can come back to this in a month or two after you’ve read Rhythm of War.

However, good communication with fans--particularly when it comes to expectations--is something I consider a foundational principle of my career. During the beta read, I had the chance to get a glimpse of how readers might respond to some aspects of Jasnah, and at that time I determined I’d do a post like this before the book came out.

So, here’s the problem: through the course of the series, people have been asking me about Jasnah’s sexuality. Gay, Bi, Straight, other? I usually answer with some variation of the following: “Jasnah would prefer you focus on other aspects of her identity, rather than her sexuality.”

I said this for various reasons. First, I felt it is in line with the character, and what she would want. Second, I’ve avoided talking too much about Jasnah as a general rule, since I plan her to be a major (perhaps the major) character of the back five books, and so it’s best to keep focus off her for now. There will be plenty of time for discussions about her later. Third, I generally don’t force relationships upon my characters as I write. It depends on the character, of course. (Navani/Dalinar, for example, had a romance planned as a main part of their storyline.) But for many characters, I give myself wiggle room to see what I feel works best as the story develops.

The end result of me being vague on this, however, was that I seem to have led a lot of people to think I was playing the Brandon game of: “If he won’t say anything about a topic, it must be mysterious, and therefore something we should theorize on a ton!” This is, obviously, my own fault.

I’ve heard a lot of different things via email and in person from people that have made me realize that a lot of people are wanting some mutually exclusive things from the character in this regard. As I started work on this novel, I decided I should say something in the book in order to pull back the shroud on the mystery a little, as I never intended it to get as big as it did.

I tried a few different things to see what worked and was most genuine for the character. In the end, I settled on what I felt was best and most in-line with how I view Jasnah. For those who want to know, and I’ll put this next part behind extra spoilers. Jasnah is asexual, and currently heteroromantic. Her feelings on physical intimacy are very neutral, not something she's interested in for its own sake, but also not something she's opposed to doing for someone she cares about. I tried several different things with the character, and this is what really clicked with me--after getting some advice, suggestions, and help from some asexual readers.

One of the reasons I wanted to make this post is because I wanted to address some of the people who are going to be disappointed as I worry that I (by making her a blank slate in this regard) accidentally led a lot of people to theorize and attach ideas they wanted to her--and so I’ll inevitably disappoint these people. (Though, hopefully, others will find the depiction I ended up with in line with the characterization and with Jasnah’s overall character mode.)

For the main body of the annotation, I wanted to talk about how Jasnah came about, and my inspirations. So if you’ll forgive me for a moment, I want to walk you down that path--and I think it might explain some of why I ended up making the decision that I did.

When I was first working on the Stormlight Archive back in 2002, I decided early on that I wanted a character like Jasnah in the books, as I was dealing with some gender politics and social structures. (I actually pitched Jasnah to myself as “The woman Serene thinks she is.” No offense to Serene, she’s just young--and I wanted to take a stab at a true scholar and master of politics.)

This decision made, I dove into reading a lot of work from feminist authors--and made certain to talk to some of my feminist friends in depth about how to accomplish an accurate depiction. A lot of times, when I’m developing a character, one or two things will leap out at me from readings, and I’ll start to use that to make up the core of the personality. (Much like the idea of Kaladin came from the idea of a surgeon, trained to save people, being sent to war and being trained to kill.)

Jasnah’s atheism was one of these things--specifically I wanted a rationalist humanist character as a counterpoint to the very mythological setting I was developing with the Heralds. I was extremely excited by the opportunity to have a character who could offer the in-world scientific reasons why the things that are happening are happening.

At the same time, one key takeaway I got from these studies was this: several authors and friends be frustrated with the idea that often in media and discussion, people pretended that a feminist couldn’t also be feminine. As it was explained to me, “Saying you shouldn’t have to play into society’s rules for women shouldn’t also mean no women should ever decide to play into some of society’s rules for women.” It was about choice, and letting women decide--rather than letting society pressure them. This was central to my creation of Jasnah.

And so, fundamental to my view of the character is the need for me to not force her down any path, no matter how much some fans may want that path to be the right one. Jasnah being as I’ve written her was just RIGHT. I’ve always viewed her as sharing some aspects with myself, and one of those is the clinical way I approach some things that others approach emotionally. While I wouldn’t say I identify in the same way as her, this part of me is part of a seed for who she is and how she acts. And with help from betas, I think I found her true voice.

All of that said, the people I’m most sad to disappoint here are those who I know were hoping for Jasnah to be gay. Out of respect for these readers, and to be certain, I did try writing the character that way in this book--and I felt it didn’t quite fit. Obviously, this is a character, and not an actual person--and so it’s all a fabrication anyway. I could absolutely write Jasnah as gay, and it wouldn’t undermine any sense of choice for a real woman.

However, it didn’t feel authentic to me. Plus, now that Way of Kings Prime is out, you all can know that a relationship with a man (Taln) was a plot point to her initial characterization. (I can’t say that I’ll stick with this, to be honest. It will depend on a ton of factors.)

When I discussed all this all with a good friend of mine who is far more involved in feminist discourse and the LGBTQIA+ community, she suggested that I make Jasnah bisexual or biromantic. I resisted this because I knew the only planned relationship I had for her was with a man, and it felt disingenuous to try to imply this is how I see her. (Though, in your head canon, there’s certainly great arguments for this.) The problem is that Shallan is leaning very bi as I’ve written her more, but she’s in a relationship with a man. I don’t know if this is a big issue in fiction, but it would feel somehow wrong to for me to write a bunch of bisexual characters who all only engaged in relationships with people of the opposite gender. It feels I could do more damage than good by trying to pretend I’m being inclusive in this way, without actually giving true representation.

This all might beg another question: will there be other characters in the Stormlight Archive (or cosmere) who are LGBTQIA+. Yes. (Including major viewpoint characters.) However, I worry that by talking too much about that here, I would imply a tone where I’m trying too hard to deflect. (One person I chatted with about this warned me not to send the “wrong message that queer characters are like representation tokens that we can exchange for each other for equal credit.” I found that a very astute piece of advice.)

I am quite happy with Jasnah’s depiction in this book, and while I’m sorry she can’t be everything everyone wanted, I’m excited for her development as a character in the back five books. My promise to you remains the same: to make the Cosmere a place where I explore all aspects of the human experience. And a place that represents not just me, but as many different types of peoples and beliefs as I can--depicted the best I can as vibrant, dynamic characters.

Many thanks to those in the LGBTQIA+ community who have written to me with suggestions, criticisms, and support. And thanks to everyone for being patient with me, and this series, as I continue to shape it.

Rhythm of War Annotations (Nov. 2, 2020)

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Ookla the Frustrated

[NameIess]

If I had to guess, the characters that are most likely to die would be Jasnah, Dalinar, and Szeth. Jasnah will either be killed by Todium as a threat to his plans, or manipulated by him in the back half. I actually sort of want Dalinar to die and lose the contest of champions, just because I think him serving Todium for an eternity would be awesome (and terrifying) Szeth I don't want to die, but his arc looks like it will be completed in KoW, so my guess is that he'll either die or be relegated to a few viewpoints in the back half. Of course, thinking about it more, he might also have a place keeping the peace between singers and humans.

I don't think Kaladin is going to die, but I might be wrong. If he doesn't die, then he is probably going to retire from combat for the entirety of the time gap between series one and two, and might take the role of more of a mentor character. He's definitely not going to lead the Windrunners anymore.

Some people who aren't on the poll that are on my most likely to die list are The Lopen (hopefully he gets to swear an ideal before going down in a blaze of glory), Moash, and maybe El.

[Pathfinder]

So although Jasnah's flash back book may be the second to last or last of the entire Archive, I have a hard time believing she will be killed before then considering Brandon has confirmed she is a main character across the entire back five, if not THE main character of the back five (his words). So I don't think she is liable to die, at least not till the very end. 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Not so actually and that's why Taln will live

A few WoB's one very long

  Reveal hidden contents

Phantine

By the way, the chapters from Way of Kings Prime were pretty interesting when I read them in the [Altered Perceptions] anthology. I assume the rest of the book at the moment is still pretty spoilery... about where in The Stormlight Archive series would you consider it 'caught up' enough to do something with the rest of WoK'?

Brandon Sanderson

Unfortunately, one of the ways I made the series work was by splitting the character into two groupings, and doing half in the first five and half in the second. This means that WoK Prime doesn't spoil anything for Dalinar/Kaladin/Shallan. But it has huge spoilers for books six and seven, with Jasnah and Taln. So it will be a while.

General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 16, 2015)

 

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventeen

As I was working on the annotation for last week’s chapter, I realized it was touching on something I wanted to talk about in a more substantive way. So I decided to put that annotation off and make a separate, longer and more in-depth, post about it. This WILL have some small spoilers for the book, specifically some things to do with Jasnah and her sexual identity. If you’d rather just read it as it comes up in the story, then I’d suggest you head away now--and you can come back to this in a month or two after you’ve read Rhythm of War.

However, good communication with fans--particularly when it comes to expectations--is something I consider a foundational principle of my career. During the beta read, I had the chance to get a glimpse of how readers might respond to some aspects of Jasnah, and at that time I determined I’d do a post like this before the book came out.

So, here’s the problem: through the course of the series, people have been asking me about Jasnah’s sexuality. Gay, Bi, Straight, other? I usually answer with some variation of the following: “Jasnah would prefer you focus on other aspects of her identity, rather than her sexuality.”

I said this for various reasons. First, I felt it is in line with the character, and what she would want. Second, I’ve avoided talking too much about Jasnah as a general rule, since I plan her to be a major (perhaps the major) character of the back five books, and so it’s best to keep focus off her for now. There will be plenty of time for discussions about her later. Third, I generally don’t force relationships upon my characters as I write. It depends on the character, of course. (Navani/Dalinar, for example, had a romance planned as a main part of their storyline.) But for many characters, I give myself wiggle room to see what I feel works best as the story develops.

The end result of me being vague on this, however, was that I seem to have led a lot of people to think I was playing the Brandon game of: “If he won’t say anything about a topic, it must be mysterious, and therefore something we should theorize on a ton!” This is, obviously, my own fault.

I’ve heard a lot of different things via email and in person from people that have made me realize that a lot of people are wanting some mutually exclusive things from the character in this regard. As I started work on this novel, I decided I should say something in the book in order to pull back the shroud on the mystery a little, as I never intended it to get as big as it did.

I tried a few different things to see what worked and was most genuine for the character. In the end, I settled on what I felt was best and most in-line with how I view Jasnah. For those who want to know, and I’ll put this next part behind extra spoilers. Jasnah is asexual, and currently heteroromantic. Her feelings on physical intimacy are very neutral, not something she's interested in for its own sake, but also not something she's opposed to doing for someone she cares about. I tried several different things with the character, and this is what really clicked with me--after getting some advice, suggestions, and help from some asexual readers.

One of the reasons I wanted to make this post is because I wanted to address some of the people who are going to be disappointed as I worry that I (by making her a blank slate in this regard) accidentally led a lot of people to theorize and attach ideas they wanted to her--and so I’ll inevitably disappoint these people. (Though, hopefully, others will find the depiction I ended up with in line with the characterization and with Jasnah’s overall character mode.)

For the main body of the annotation, I wanted to talk about how Jasnah came about, and my inspirations. So if you’ll forgive me for a moment, I want to walk you down that path--and I think it might explain some of why I ended up making the decision that I did.

When I was first working on the Stormlight Archive back in 2002, I decided early on that I wanted a character like Jasnah in the books, as I was dealing with some gender politics and social structures. (I actually pitched Jasnah to myself as “The woman Serene thinks she is.” No offense to Serene, she’s just young--and I wanted to take a stab at a true scholar and master of politics.)

This decision made, I dove into reading a lot of work from feminist authors--and made certain to talk to some of my feminist friends in depth about how to accomplish an accurate depiction. A lot of times, when I’m developing a character, one or two things will leap out at me from readings, and I’ll start to use that to make up the core of the personality. (Much like the idea of Kaladin came from the idea of a surgeon, trained to save people, being sent to war and being trained to kill.)

Jasnah’s atheism was one of these things--specifically I wanted a rationalist humanist character as a counterpoint to the very mythological setting I was developing with the Heralds. I was extremely excited by the opportunity to have a character who could offer the in-world scientific reasons why the things that are happening are happening.

At the same time, one key takeaway I got from these studies was this: several authors and friends be frustrated with the idea that often in media and discussion, people pretended that a feminist couldn’t also be feminine. As it was explained to me, “Saying you shouldn’t have to play into society’s rules for women shouldn’t also mean no women should ever decide to play into some of society’s rules for women.” It was about choice, and letting women decide--rather than letting society pressure them. This was central to my creation of Jasnah.

And so, fundamental to my view of the character is the need for me to not force her down any path, no matter how much some fans may want that path to be the right one. Jasnah being as I’ve written her was just RIGHT. I’ve always viewed her as sharing some aspects with myself, and one of those is the clinical way I approach some things that others approach emotionally. While I wouldn’t say I identify in the same way as her, this part of me is part of a seed for who she is and how she acts. And with help from betas, I think I found her true voice.

All of that said, the people I’m most sad to disappoint here are those who I know were hoping for Jasnah to be gay. Out of respect for these readers, and to be certain, I did try writing the character that way in this book--and I felt it didn’t quite fit. Obviously, this is a character, and not an actual person--and so it’s all a fabrication anyway. I could absolutely write Jasnah as gay, and it wouldn’t undermine any sense of choice for a real woman.

However, it didn’t feel authentic to me. Plus, now that Way of Kings Prime is out, you all can know that a relationship with a man (Taln) was a plot point to her initial characterization. (I can’t say that I’ll stick with this, to be honest. It will depend on a ton of factors.)

When I discussed all this all with a good friend of mine who is far more involved in feminist discourse and the LGBTQIA+ community, she suggested that I make Jasnah bisexual or biromantic. I resisted this because I knew the only planned relationship I had for her was with a man, and it felt disingenuous to try to imply this is how I see her. (Though, in your head canon, there’s certainly great arguments for this.) The problem is that Shallan is leaning very bi as I’ve written her more, but she’s in a relationship with a man. I don’t know if this is a big issue in fiction, but it would feel somehow wrong to for me to write a bunch of bisexual characters who all only engaged in relationships with people of the opposite gender. It feels I could do more damage than good by trying to pretend I’m being inclusive in this way, without actually giving true representation.

This all might beg another question: will there be other characters in the Stormlight Archive (or cosmere) who are LGBTQIA+. Yes. (Including major viewpoint characters.) However, I worry that by talking too much about that here, I would imply a tone where I’m trying too hard to deflect. (One person I chatted with about this warned me not to send the “wrong message that queer characters are like representation tokens that we can exchange for each other for equal credit.” I found that a very astute piece of advice.)

I am quite happy with Jasnah’s depiction in this book, and while I’m sorry she can’t be everything everyone wanted, I’m excited for her development as a character in the back five books. My promise to you remains the same: to make the Cosmere a place where I explore all aspects of the human experience. And a place that represents not just me, but as many different types of peoples and beliefs as I can--depicted the best I can as vibrant, dynamic characters.

Many thanks to those in the LGBTQIA+ community who have written to me with suggestions, criticisms, and support. And thanks to everyone for being patient with me, and this series, as I continue to shape it.

Rhythm of War Annotations (Nov. 2, 2020)

 

Hmmmm..... I am very skeptical about Jasnah and Taln ending up together. In the second WoB, he clearly means that the planned relationship was with hoid. This is after all the chapter 17 annotations of RoW. He also says he is uncomfortable with writing Jasnah is bi because Shallan is bi and is in a relationship with a man. And he only started intentionally writing shallan as bi recently.

The first WoB is more nebulous, but I think it means that wok prime spoils Jasnah and Taln specific things rather than that it spoils Jasnah and Taln's relationship. 

Also it's just wierd to set up a relationship with hoid in one book, prolly break it up with another and then later find Jasnah and Taln falling in love in the back even tho we have no indication or foreshadowing for that yet.

And Jasnah's main point of attraction to hoid is his mind and intellect. I don't think Taln is smart enough to attract her. He is very knowledgeable, but I still think it will be a step down from Hoid.

Also Taln seems like he has a relationship with Ash already and he doesn't even hate her for leaving him. Unless you think there will be a love triangle(shivers)

Also Brandon said he had only one planned relationship not two

It might seem like I am ranting, i am not. I just wrote my objections one by one and it turned out huuge

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

So although Jasnah's flash back book may be the second to last or last of the entire Archive, I have a hard time believing she will be killed before then considering Brandon has confirmed she is a main character across the entire back five, if not THE main character of the back five (his words). So I don't think she is liable to die, at least not till the very end. 

Totally agree. The only way she is probably gonna die is a sacrifice death near the end of stormlight. And definitely after her flashback is done

[Frustration]

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Hmmmm..... I am very skeptical about Jasnah and Taln ending up together. In the second WoB, he clearly means that the planned relationship was with hoid. This is after all the chapter 17 annotations of RoW. He also says he is uncomfortable with writing Jasnah is bi because Shallan is bi and is in a relationship with a man. And he only started intentionally writing shallan as bi recently.

Considering Hoid isn't hanging around I highly doubt that to be perminent.

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

The first WoB is more nebulous, but I think it means that wok prime spoils Jasnah and Taln specific things rather than that it spoils Jasnah and Taln's relationship. 

Considering everything else has already been revelaed and we aren't even at book 5 yet I have to disagree.

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Also it's just wierd to set up a relationship with hoid in one book, prolly break it up with another and then later find Jasnah and Taln falling in love in the back even tho we have no indication or foreshadowing for that yet.

That is still two to three books out, with a fifteen some year break in between, plenty of time.

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

And Jasnah's main point of attraction to hoid is his mind and intellect. I don't think Taln is smart enough to attract her. He is very knowledgeable, but I still think it will be a step down from Hoid.

Jasnah seems pretty intent on interigating Ash, I see no reason Taln would be any different.

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Also Taln seems like he has a relationship with Ash already and he doesn't even hate her for leaving him. Unless you think there will be a love triangle(shivers)

I don't think there will be a relationship with Ash.

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Also Brandon said he had only one planned relationship not two

Hoid is going to disappear I highly doubt he's going to be as big of a player in the back five, so if he's not going to be there for Jasnha's own book that doesn't change anything. And on top of that he only even began to think about that after OB

Edited December 17, 2021 by Ookla the Frustrated

[KaladinWorldsinger]

16 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Considering Hoid isn't hanging around I highly doubt that to be perminent.

Oh I don't think they are going to be permanent at all. I think they are headed for a break up, but there will be the fallout for the back 5. But even then, I just don't think that Jasnah would consider any man other than Hoid her intellectual equal.

23 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Considering everything else has already been revelaed and we aren't even at book 5 yet I have to disagree

I haven't read wok prime so I don't know what you mean by what it revealed, but Jasnah and Taln are mysterious characters we know very little about. Unless Jasnah and Taln's relationship is a major plot point in that book? I have not read it over fear of spoilers.

32 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

That is still two to three books out, with a fifteen some year break in between, plenty of time.

Sure, but that will need to be hinted during said books

33 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Jasnah seems pretty intent on interigating Ash, I see no reason Taln would be any different.

But she is interogating the heralds for their knowledge of history and the oathpact. Taln would be knowledgeable about ashyn and first desolation, but that's not the mental stimulation that Jasnah wants. Knowledge isn't the same as  smartness.

40 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

I don't think there will be a relationship with Ash.

In OB, as she meets Taln, she says that she could never forget Taln's 'hands'. I think there is a clear romantic indication with those lines. Also I think there is a WoB on it.

44 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Hoid is going to disappear I highly doubt he's going to be as big of a player in the back five

Hoid has been so active on roshar and since the cosmere connections keep getting bigger and bigger, it would be wierd if he isn't interacting much in the back 5

46 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

And on top of that he only even began to think about that after OB

The planned relationship quote was written in RoW annotations, when he clearly meant that Hoid and Jasnah were the only planned relationship

 

Stupid question, how do I delete this extra quote below me on phone? 

38 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

I don't think there will be a relationship with Ash.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Oh I don't think they are going to be permanent at all. I think they are headed for a break up, but there will be the fallout for the back 5. But even then, I just don't think that Jasnah would consider any man other than Hoid her intellectual equal.

Well if it's not going to be more than 1 or two PoV's  how is that a big enough deal to warrant a major character point.

And she's had other partners in the past so I doubt the second part means anything.

39 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I haven't read wok prime so I don't know what you mean by what it revealed, but Jasnah and Taln are mysterious characters we know very little about. Unless Jasnah and Taln's relationship is a major plot point in that book? I have not read it over fear of spoilers.

They are pretty much exactly like they are shown, the only thing it could really be is their relationship.

40 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Sure, but that will need to be hinted during said books

yes, but they aren't out yet

42 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

In OB, as she meets Taln, she says that she could never forget Taln's 'hands'. I think there is a clear romantic indication with those lines. Also I think there is a WoB on it.

No WoB's I can find

46 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Hoid has been so active on roshar and since the cosmere connections keep getting bigger and bigger, it would be wierd if he isn't interacting much in the back 5

He's been active on ROshar because of how becoming Radiant works, and because of Rayse, with Rayse gone I see no reason for him to stick around

47 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Stupid question, how do I delete this extra quote below me on phone? 

It's really hard on mobile, I recommend adding extra space above it, moving it up and then highlight+backspace.

[Milk]

9 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

He's been active on ROshar because of how becoming Radiant works, and because of Rayse, with Rayse gone I see no reason for him to stick around

Considering Taravangian managed to instill true terror in Wit, I'm sure he views Odium as a threat still. (Although I feel he would run away from him, more likely.) In addition, quoting Harmony, "The power of Odium’s Shard is more dangerous than the mind behind it." "In truth, it would be a combination of a Vessel’s craftiness and the power’s Intent that we should fear most."

Furthermore, he can't do Radiant Lightweaving outside the Rosharan system, since spren are confined to it. I think that could be a reason behind staying.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Milk

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, Milk said:

Considering Taravangian managed to instill true terror in Wit, I'm sure he views Odium as a threat still. (Although I feel he would run away from him, more likely.) In addition, quoting Harmony, "The power of Odium’s Shard is more dangerous than the mind behind it." "In truth, it would be a combination of a Vessel’s craftiness and the power’s Intent that we should fear most."

Yes but the primary motivator for him being against Odium was how much he hated Rayse, Hoid's story is in Dragonsteel, it'd be weird to get so much of him out here.

9 minutes ago, Milk said:

Furthermore, he can't do Radiant Lightweaving outside the Rosharan system, since spren are confined to it. I think that could be a reason behind staying.

Actually he can, he will leave Roshar between SA 5 and SA 6 as he appears on Scadrial in the interm.

Also welcome back Milk

[Milk]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Yes but the primary motivator for him being against Odium was how much he hated Rayse, Hoid's story is in Dragonsteel, it'd be weird to get so much of him out here.

Actually he can, he will leave Roshar between SA 5 and SA 6 as he appears on Scadrial in the interm.

Also welcome back Milk

Good point; Wit mentions that he has a grudge against Rayse, although I'm not sure about it being the primary motivator. 

I am aware that Wit appears in Scadrial era 2, though I have not read the books so I don't know if he shows Radiant Lightweaving there.

Oh hey you noticed my comment here earlier =)

Edited December 18, 2021 by Milk
Deleted automatic emoji

[Frustration]

Just now, Milk said:

I am aware that Wit appears in Scadrial era 2, though I have not read the books so I don't know if he shows Radiant Lightweaving there.

The only way he could leave the system is to either break the bond, or use the method for spren to leave, the Radiant can't go any further out from Roshar than spren can.

1 minute ago, Milk said:

Oh hey you noticed my comment here earlier =)

I did, it's always nice when someone comes back.

I can't remember what exactly I saw you post on but I saw your name and felt happiness so obviously I enjoyed your presence immencely.

[Milk]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

The only way he could leave the system is to either break the bond, or use the method for spren to leave, the Radiant can't go any further out from Roshar than spren can.

I did, it's always nice when someone comes back.

I can't remember what exactly I saw you post on but I saw your name and felt happiness so obviously I enjoyed your presence immencely.

I think him breaking the Nahel bond should be considered a possibility. And you might be confusing me for someone else, I'm relatively new to the forum. 

[Frustration]

Just now, Milk said:

I think him breaking the Nahel bond should be considered a possibility.

I doubt it, Hoid is very happy at being a full lightweaver again. I won't say impossible but I'd doubt it.

1 minute ago, Milk said:

And you might be confusing me for someone else, I'm relatively new to the forum. 

Are there two Milk?

Milks?

People named Milk?

Are there two people named Milk?

 

Looks like no. I'll look into it.