How does Soulcasting into non-Essences work out?

[smolbep]

A lot of the Essences have overlap based on how you interpret their descriptions and what state of matter something is in. If someone were to Soulcast something into ice, would that be Lucentia because ice is a crystal or Blood because ice is water? Would steam be Zephyr for transparent gas or Blood for non-oil liquid? Would bone be Sinew for its organic, animal-sourced nature, Talus for stone, or would you need both to create an accurate bone? Do metallic ores without pure metal in them count as Talus or Foil? Would bacterial matter count as Pulp or Sinew? What about viruses? Would plasma be under Spark or under one of Zephyr or Vapor? Could you create any non-oil substance that can possibly be liquid by Soulcasting something with a garnet? If you can Soulcast something into something hotter, like fire, can you Soulcast into something colder, electrically charged, at non-ambient pressure, or even moving? I'm aware the answer, if a certain answer for it even exists, is probably "blah blah perception blah blah" but I still wonder. Could it be that either of the possible Essences would count, or is there something that would tell you for sure? Requiring specific gemstones that correspond with the Essences makes a lot more sense for the much more limited Soulcaster fabrials than it does Surgebinders.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, smolbep said:

Requiring specific gemstones that correspond with the Essences makes a lot more sense for the much more limited Soulcaster fabrials than it does Surgebinders.

Well Radiants don't have hat limitation, so that works out.

 

The answer is it would probably depend on the person and how they saw it.

Personally Ice would stilll be water, but Steam is a gas, and closer to non-transparent gas than transparent, Metal bones are Foil.

[Honorless]

Water would be Blood, ice I think would be Lucentia, bone should be sinew as its a living organ not a piece of rock imo but I get the feeling Rosharans wouldn't see it that way plus Talus' Body Focus is literally bone, metals including impure ores would be Foil; Rosharans still don't know much about germs besides what the Heralds told them so I can't imagine they'd have tried Soulcasting microorganisms, this might happen in a future era, then categorization into Pulp or Sinew might depend on the type of microorganism, assuming Soulcasting microorganisms is even possible, no idea how they'd categorize viruses; Soulcasting plasma should not be possible for Soulcasters or Radiants, probably not Heralds either, the Surges were restricted by Honor and this amount of Investiture would also not be normally available for Radiants, if they find a way to unchain the Surges and a way to access a large amount of Investiture, I think this would fall under Spark. Soulcasting stuff in their liquid state is an interesting idea! Though given the rule of perception, they might fall under Tallow by virtue of their viscosity, perhaps. Assuming these are all even actual issues, given that Soulcasters probably wouldn't be able to do most of these things at all due to not having enough Investiture + restrictions and Radiants with access to the Soulcasting Surge not needing the specific gemstones.

I don't understand what you mean by Soulcasting into something colder, do you mean less energetic states of matter? Then we don't know as this is not scientific knowledge available to the Rosharans, so how they'd perceive it is up in the air. Soulcasting ionized or excited particles may not be possible. What do you mean by non-ambient pressure? Soulcasting an object at higher or lower pressure than standard atmospheric pressures? That's possible. To Soulcast stuff to be in a pressurized state? That would be a very high level skill, I think. We do see Soulcasting between solid and gaseous, doing so safely would depend on the skill & power of the Soulcaster. Soulcasting an object to have a different velocity state would depend on the skill & power of the Soulcaster, I think, as they'd have to convince the object, I don't think Soulcasting projectile weapons would be better than having a gun though.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Honorless

[Quantus]

Soulcasting is wildly dependent on the perception of both the caster and their Spren.  So I suspect the line will be a sliding one as the 2+ cultures collectively advance.  But if, for example, there were a knowledgeable worldhopper with access to Soulcasting, he would likely have different boundaries but would need to bring his Spren up to speed.  

[smolbep]

15 hours ago, Honorless said:

Water would be Blood, ice I think would be Lucentia, bone should be sinew as its a living organ not a piece of rock imo but I get the feeling Rosharans wouldn't see it that way plus Talus' Body Focus is literally bone, metals including impure ores would be Foil; Rosharans still don't know much about germs besides what the Heralds told them so I can't imagine they'd have tried Soulcasting microorganisms, this might happen in a future era, then categorization into Pulp or Sinew might depend on the type of microorganism, assuming Soulcasting microorganisms is even possible, no idea how they'd categorize viruses; Soulcasting plasma should not be possible for Soulcasters or Radiants, probably not Heralds either, the Surges were restricted by Honor and this amount of Investiture would also not be normally available for Radiants, if they find a way to unchain the Surges and a way to access a large amount of Investiture, I think this would fall under Spark. Soulcasting stuff in their liquid state is an interesting idea! Though given the rule of perception, they might fall under Tallow by virtue of their viscosity, perhaps. Assuming these are all even actual issues, given that Soulcasters probably wouldn't be able to do most of these things at all due to not having enough Investiture + restrictions and Radiants with access to the Soulcasting Surge not needing the specific gemstones.

I don't understand what you mean by Soulcasting into something colder, do you mean less energetic states of matter? Then we don't know as this is not scientific knowledge available to the Rosharans, so how they'd perceive it is up in the air. Soulcasting ionized or excited particles may not be possible. What do you mean by non-ambient pressure? Soulcasting an object at higher or lower pressure than standard atmospheric pressures? That's possible. To Soulcast stuff to be in a pressurized state? That would be a very high level skill, I think. We do see Soulcasting between solid and gaseous, doing so safely would depend on the skill & power of the Soulcaster. Soulcasting an object to have a different velocity state would depend on the skill & power of the Soulcaster, I think, as they'd have to convince the object, I don't think Soulcasting projectile weapons would be better than having a gun though.

 

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

Well Radiants don't have hat limitation, so that works out.

 

The answer is it would probably depend on the person and how they saw it.

Personally Ice would stilll be water, but Steam is a gas, and closer to non-transparent gas than transparent, Metal bones are Foil.

Radiants DO have that limitation unless they are drawing the Stormlight directly from a highstorm.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/149-rithmatist-albuquerque-signing/#e2784

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390-stuttgart-signing/#e12723

Quote

StormAtlas (paraphrased)

Why can Kaladin Surgebind with any gem type but Jasnah and Shallan need specific types?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A lot of that will be explained as the series comes along. It is really the difference between Soulcasting and the other forms of Surgebinding. It's more a quirk of Soulcasting than it is something that is different about about Kaladin. So you've kind of got it reversed a little bit though; Soulcasting has this additional restriction that the other ones don't.

Rithmatist Albuquerque signing (May 22, 2013)

Quote

The Forumlurker (paraphrased)

If a Radiant tried to Soulcast directly with the Stormlight from the highstorm, what essences could they create?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They could basically do whatever they want. There wouldn't be any limitations, but only for Radiant Soulcasters.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

 

Okay, now, in order:

• The reason I wondered about bone is that although it is a living organ it also has a very large inorganic component, as well as it being the body focus for Talus.
• I don't just mean hunks of metal contaminated with rock, I mean metal that has reacted with other things to form a mineral and doesn't look metallic, e.g. bauxite, chalcocite, cinnabar, cobaltite, illmenite, pentlandite, pyrolusite, scheelite, uraninite, and wolframite.
• The restrictions by Honor are a good point I forgot to think of.
• By Soulcasting something colder, I mean Soulcasting something into something with a lower temperature than the original object, which I figure might be possible since they Soulcast things into fire.
• I did mean Soulcasting into something at lower or higher pressure than the surrounding atmosphere.
• Yeah, Soulcasting projectiles would probably be the least efficient way to use Soulcasting in a fight.

 

[Honorless]

Okay, I found some WoBs relating to your questions

Quote

YaBoiAlex

Can Radiant Soulcasters Soulcast objects into ones of different temperatures? For example turning a piece of the ground into molten metal or turning water into ice?

Brandon Sanderson

Kind of, but not the way you want. Most things are going to have to be room temperature--so water, but not ice. That said, there are some funky things you can do with pressure and the like if you get more advanced in the skill.

General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 22, 2020)

Quote

...

Brandon Sanderson

Soulcasting anything other than the basic Essence requires some innate knowledge and practice. People could learn to soulcast better food, but it would have to be a Radiant with control over the process. The soulcaster fabrials are far more rigid in what they can create.

ebilutionist

As for soulcasting - now that is... interesting. So are Surgebinding fabrials more rigid in general? And what of an Honorblade when a non-Herald uses it?

Brandon Sanderson

A soulcaster is built to do a certain thing, and can do that certain thing well, but without as much flexibility. It is the difference between having a computer output a picture of a circle--following some inputs such as size and some changes to shape--and having an artist who can draw what you want.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 20, 2016)

If it's not metallic then the minerals would be seen as rocks, so Talus rather than Foil.

 

Radiants don't have the gemstone corresponding to Essence restriction, just like they are somewhat protected from Savanthood by Soulcasting but aren't immune to it. Here's a WoB:

Quote

Darkness (paraphrased)

Further on in that… do different gemstones hold a different flavor, or different "frequency" of Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Umm…. Nnnnnnnnooooooo… But kind of? Here's the thing: So with the gemstones on Roshar… scientifically some of these gemstones are just really close to one another. Like chemical formula and whatever. But, their cognitive selves and their spiritual selves are gonna be very different because of human perception, right? (sure) And so, the answer is both a no and a yes because of that. So people's perception has sort of changed how the magic works, to an extent… but it's the same amount of investiture, just with slightly different flavorings.

Darkness (paraphrased)

Right, so… is it easier for a Soulcaster to turn rock into smoke with a smokestone as opposed to a ruby?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So… Soulcasting… is gonna really depend on whether you're using a soulcaster.

Darkness (paraphrased)

First is for a Soulcaster, second is for a Surgebinder.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A Surgebinder is far less constrained than someone using a device accessing surges, right? A Knight Radiant is far less constrained than somebody using a mechanical means of accessing magic, and I would include Honorblades as a mechanical means of accessing a surge.

Darkness (paraphrased)

Cool! So with the whole Jasnah scene, she inhales Stormlight, for using Soulcasting. So how is it the Soulcaster appears to glow more fiercely instead of growing dimmer in that scene?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Um… heh heh heh… So… this is perception on Shallan's part, watching and kind of resonating with the Soulcasting, and some weird things are happening that she sees, and not necessarily anyone else is seeing.

Darkness (paraphrased)

I love that! Alright… Also, did Taravangian recognize that Jasnah was not Soulcasting traditionally? Like was it the hand sinking into the rock that gave it away?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Taravangian knew and already suspected.

Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 16, 2017)

The first WoB that you posted is about the Surge of Transformation itself seeming to require specific gemstones, a limitation not held by the other Surges. Note that we didn't know much about Soulcasting at the time, that WoB was from after Way of Kings & before Words of Radiance, when Jasnah was hiding her Radiancy and Shallan was just getting her Nahel Bond with Pattern. The second WoB that you posted doesn't contradict the info from the WoB posted above either, it seems supportive it.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Honorless

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, smolbep said:

Radiants DO have that limitation unless they are drawing the Stormlight directly from a highstorm.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/149-rithmatist-albuquerque-signing/#e2784

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390-stuttgart-signing/#e12723

Oh really?

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/128/#e3243