Anniversary Game 7/Anonymous Game 9: From Embers, A Flame

[Azure Mouse]

2 minutes ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

Rhino could have Invested Ostrich in the night,

[OOC: Remember the issue that started the Ostrich train? I scanned Ostrich last night and saw him use a Shardic action. So the save has to be Mercy's Shardic, as Mercy's Investment won't work on a Shard and Ostrich had to be a Shard last night. The one scenario I can think of involves Ostrich passing the Shard D3 and also investing. But he was definitely a Shard until oh, now  ]

[Charcoal Hyena]

6 minutes ago, Azure Mouse said:

[OOC: Remember the issue that started the Ostrich train? I scanned Ostrich last night and saw him use a Shardic action. So the save has to be Mercy's Shardic, as Mercy's Investment won't work on a Shard and Ostrich had to be a Shard last night. The one scenario I can think of involves Ostrich passing the Shard D3 and also investing. But he was definitely a Shard until oh, now  ]

Ah yes! I am a fool
Who overanalyzes rules
And forgets the substance
Of discussion.

[Azure Mouse]

Just now, Charcoal Hyena said:

Ah yes! I am a fool
Who overanalyzes rules
And forgets the substance
Of discussion.

Tenth of the Dusk said, "I don't speak for the others. But my quarrel is not with you. Do what you need to. Vote on me if that pleases you. Or not." 

[Turquoise Gorilla]

Turquoise Gorilla:

Quote

Evening all. The lynch seems settled enough - I’m not even going to start getting involved in that.

I’d also like to preface this to say I’m not asking for pity, nor condemning any individual player. I’m writing my thoughts up because I feel slightly saddened at the state of the game, and haven’t felt this way since a long, long time ago, where such behaviour was more common.

As is known to a great many of you, I am a neutral player. Invention, to be specific. A number of you can verify this - Azure Mouse, to name but one.

It has been increasingly known that I am a neutral player; I have hardly kept it to myself. However, as it has become more widely known, I have felt a disturbing trend. Perhaps it is that this game is being solved mechanically, behind closed doors, but it feels to me like I (and a number of others not in the all important village trust circle) have been frozen out of the game. With the mechanical solving through roleclaims taking place in PMs, and the ensuing settled lynches in thread, engaging and even caring about the game has grown harder and harder. There is nothing those of us (village or neutral) can contribute beyond throwing our vote onto a player. 

To rephrase, and perhaps better articulate myself, it closes the game off to all but a select few. I’m sure those involved are having a great time, but at the expense of everyone else, I think. Perhaps the game has changed in my long absence from this site, but I remember once we made such an effort to keep the games fun for everyone, often above what was strategically optimal, whichever side we were on.

I may have lost my train of thought, and certainly have not articulated myself as well as I might have. I can only offer my frustration at the impotence I feel here as an excuse.

---

That all being said, I shall vote for Opal Lion. Opal personally has been a delight to talk to, when we have talked, but I think a closure of PMs and PM groups would reawaken this game.

Azure Mouse:

Quote

[OOC: Sorry - I agree with the sentiment but not with the premises. Inclusion goes two ways: all players need to talk more in thread, simpliciter. And simply telling players to just do so also isn't going to work - categorically denying players the ability to handle sensitive information just means they won't talk about these things. In addition, it's hard to do that despite engaging other players in PMs if they don't want to be engaged. Zebra, for instance, has flatly stated to not be included in PMs. And I should not be needing to play 20q with people on what their hobbies or what their favourite superpowers are just to establish a rapport or to try to pull them in.

Funny, 'cause you know what I remember too? I remember a time in SE when we had games where Village trusts ran everything even without PMs, and it kinda sucked for everyone else in thread because all you had to do was follow the people who were more or less considered/read strongly Village. And that ain't great and that's still alienating for players. It's almost as though there's a bigger problem here.

If there's an issue with this, it's a meta issue. Lion has spoken of this. So has Axl. Meta issues don't get solved by fiat - they're meta issues because of player behaviour.

But hey, we like straightforward infrastructural solutions, don't we?  ]

Azure Mouse, please correct me if I misunderstand your post. I am going to summarise my understanding of it as follows, so we can be clear we are discussing the same thing:

1) You suggest that an element of why this game has not felt inclusive is because players are not engaging in thread
2) You blame an element of low engagement on players stating they do not want to be engaged
3) You suggest there are issues with trust circles even where PMs do not exist
4) You suggest I am calling for an infrastructural solution to this.

I think the first point where I think you have misunderstood me is that I am not addressing the meta. I haven't played a game on this site (other than a very brief return for MR42) since 2018. I do not know what the meta now is. My expression of frustration was instead limited to this game alone, and was not intended as a polemic on the wider issues that may or may not be affecting the community.

I think, to restate my point, I am not enjoying this game. This is a great shame, as I enjoyed the first part of the game. In my post quoted above, I expressed one reason why I wasn't enjoying the game, and I suspect other players out of the loop may feel the same way.

In regards to your points specifically:

1) My challenge to that would be that it is extremely difficult to engage in a non-RP manner in thread with vastly more limited information than those controlling the lynch each cycle. I would further suggest that any such engagement would be considered far less valuable, both specifically because we have been told who to lynch each cycle anyway, and because it is not coming from a trusted player. I would further suggest that the motivation to post is much, much lower if it feels like a separate conversation to the game determining conversation which other players are having behind closed doors.

2) I think your second point here is a straw-man. Quartz Zebra may have said they didn't want to be engaged, but I was speaking in my post driven by my own feelings about the game. I was very heavily engaged with the game up until early cycle 3, at which point engagement with me seemed almost to drop off a cliff.

3) I accept that trust circles have long been an issue. I disagree that fear of trust circles is a good reason to avoid trying to make the present game fun for all players involved.

4) I reiterate that I am not suggesting a meta solution, not knowing at all the present meta. I am expressing frustration at how it feels like I (and I assume other players) are being frozen out of this present game, despite a desire to engage.

I would note that all of the above is driven by feeling. My arguments may not be as sound as they could or should be, but I hope they convey accurately my feeling, which is I think the most important thing I am trying to get across.

[Azure Mouse]

[OOC: First, I don't think we're really engaging with each other then, because I see this as an ongoing problem, rather than in isolation, built on a meta that involves players having a binary model of trust. Mode 1: Trust, you get everything. Mode 2: Lack of trust, you get nothing. I don't see this as being exclusive to PMs, which is how this is being presented all the time, both by players more versed with the current meta, and within this particular game. I see this as a game problem that is fundamentally about players' attitudes towards the game, and their sense of risk. I also see this as being a separate but related branch to the Mayoring problem which was very prevalent in some of the games we played together (e.g. LG12), where despite limited or no PMs, a central scanner coalesced power and then directed the Village. I sat on my hands for a decent chunk of it, or felt like I was doing it. The community has rejected Mayoring for a while, but the notion of exclusive trust groups is very closely connected and a few steps away from "Do this to prove yourself or else." Forcing players.

1) I think I would agree with this. But I also state that factually-speaking, the Gecko lynch was based purely off analysis of the votes, and then summarily, Gecko's behaviour. This did not rely on hidden information. The Gecko lynch thus cannot be used as evidence that the game runs on a hidden information lynch. And indeed, I believe you agree as you assert you began to feel disengaged around Cycle 3. I would agree the Rhino lynch involved information not all players had access too, and I would be interested in how you think that should be played, but I disagree strongly about the Ostrich aspect - I was the scanner. With or without a group, I would have done the usual tactic of throwing out a test vote, sitting on the results until mid-cycle, and then revealing, for the usual 'lynch me if I'm mistaken or wrong' deal.

2) Then I think we're talking past each other again. I'm directly countering an absolutist stance of the game state (which I accept now is not the argument you're making) with the observation that not all players do prefer this kind of interaction, and it takes two hands to clap. If I'm being stonewalled talking to a player, I have no incentive to keep on wanting to engage with them unless out of some dogged sense of principle that I need to do my best to bring players in. This is why I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed. I think in your case, the question I would ask, at least from my end was, "What could I offer you when you're already on the road to getting your wincon done?" I felt a bit stonewalled because I just did not know what else I could give you, or what else you'd be interested in. Hence the information on Valor's investment which seemed relevant, but otherwise, silence. I don't know if that's every player's experience but my experience has been that if I really don't know what a player wants from me and the conversation ends a couple times, I am not going to play conversation necromancy. I think it would really help if you could give me a clear sense of how to make this better for you especially. Again, just speaking from my perspective - maybe the other players had other reasons to stop talking, I don't know. Of course I could've just talked shop, random stuff, but I'll be honest and say Penguin was the only player I felt comfortable enough to do that in this game with because he was chill.

3) I accept trust circles are an issue as well. I disagree with your diagnosis that it's about fear of trust circles - I am arguing once again that attributing it to PMs alone is short-sighted. There is a significant problem with the meta. Look at the thread now. How many people do you think are talking in PMs? Or in docs? Because I can guarantee you right now a decent chunk of the PMs are dead but people don't appear to be going to the threads, and immediately, Roshar discussed getting people to come down to Roshar for more private discussion. Do you think they'd come back here if the PMs shut off? Or to the docs? Saying: "Doing something is better than being paralysed by fear" is the easy answer. The real difficult question the community has to ask itself is where to find that middle ground between trust/distrust and icing people out. Basically I'm saying: I think attitudes make people adapt in the wrong way to restrictions. You need people to work with you. And that means you have to solve the attitude too. All I've heard is that PMs are the problem from a significant chunk of people. Well, no. If you're not going to significantly change your behaviour without PMs, then we're back up Crap Creek with you being iced out of the game and that isn't okay either.

4) I get that you're not; I can't say I'm familiar with the current meta either, except from what the others have been repeatedly saying about the tendency to talk in docs. But my sense is that this is also fundamentally a meta problem. And that means we have to explicitly talk about our attitudes to solve this, not shut the PMs and the thread, or turn the docs into the new PMs.

So what I'm saying is: it sucks that you're feeling frustrated and shut off from this game, and I'm sorry because this is awful. Because the game should be fun. And I think I've shared a bit of my own frustrations of trying to figure out communication with other players. What I want to know isn't about the technicalities of the solution - PM, thread, doc. Whatever. What I want to know is what you would see as a game that would be fun for you, and how you would be involved in it. That gives me a better idea of what to do and where to go from there.

Anyway, anyone else wants to chime in, go on ahead.]

Edited January 11, 2021 by Azure Mouse

[Opal Lion]

I am but a small child who doesn't have much to say on this matter :P.
Ignore if you want, as I'm sure I got something wrong along the way :). next post will be something 

I'm going slightly off the topic maybe here, but if what you are saying is that free PMs are what discourage people from talking then I would disagree. I've mentioned before that recently thread engagement has been slightly non-existant (er...more recent games of the year excuded....somewhat.) but that applies to games with limited PMs as well. I agree with mouse (er, I think?) that completely closing PMs won't solve this problem (not to mention that there are PM items and docs,  so no matter what, there will be some form of secret communication here.)

I do think that probably everyone is losing interest in this game at some level, (Edit: @GMS NO I MEAN I LIKE THE GAME IT FUN GAME I MEAN THAT LIKE IDK NO GAME FUN IT IS IT IS) and maybe the Elims too. We basically caught four of them based off of Mech evidence 4 days into the game, and I certainly, at least, feel low motivation to do much else- at least until we kill Ostrich. I'm forcing myself to try and do analysis right now to try and have something to talk about in thread :P. At least, it'll be bad and people can point out why I'm wrong xD. (shame that didn't work for Ostrich.... *narrows eyes*...) 

My biggest problem here is I'm a sucker for any AtE, and that is all I can see this as. I mean absolutely no offence, as I'm not saying that it's fake. I feel your frustration about being left out of the PM circles and waiting blindly in the thread for people to just apparently tell you who to vote on - just that, you are a Neutral in this game. You have your own goals, and for all I know you could be making a deal somewhere with someone to kill me to stop PMs. That's just a fear of mine right now :P. (Perhaps your vote was a normal poke vote, meant to start discussion- but it still feels like a real threat, one where you want Prudence dead not because of game reasons, but for Meta ones.)

Again I venture even more off topic

I do believe that these games are...well, games, and people should try and remember that. Something I definitely strive toward is making sure that everyone is able to enjoy the game (even if...it sometimes ends up screwing over my team....shhhhh we don't talk about that). I don't mean that I don't think people shouldn't take them as seriously as they want, or as ...non-seriously as they want, but that I just don't want to make other people feel like going "why did I come back here". 

aaaaaanyways i restate that i am but a small child and know not the details of anything and hehe

Edited January 11, 2021 by Opal Lion

[Charcoal Hyena]

I will say this, as a newer player who has never been in a village trust circle: My overarching desire is to know, and being excluded makes me feel somewhat awful, and I can never trust things that others know but I don't. PMs allow for more stable trusts, since people can reveal their secret knowledge without fear of being killed and left an empty husk, but this makes the circles more exclusive. However, I will say that as a neutral I may be slightly biased as I've not put in much effort at all to be trusted as I might have if I wa genuinely a Child of Adonalsium and not a Life Emporium.

Trust circles are inevitable as people who analyse and synthesise and coalesce and bind for others like themselves they seek and sometimes find. However, to keep the outsiders appeased, I ask that reasoning be publicised along with the results please, and live updates perhaps. That would make me happier at least.

Apologies if my thoughts do not come across very well. Rhyming them is difficult, as you can tell.

[Opal Lion]

2 minutes ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

Trust circles are inevitable as people who analyse and synthesise and coalesce and bind for others like themselves they seek and sometimes find. However, to keep the outsiders appeased, I ask that reasoning be publicised along with the results please, and live updates perhaps. That would make me happier at least.

I know that in LG72 there was a Huge problem with PMs. People were voting, giving reads, and doing whatever in the thread- with, when asked, just saying "for PM reasons" which isn't a good reason. 

In this game so far, all conclusions have been made public as far as I am aware. the Shadesmar eight, the Odium!Ostrich Conclusions, ect. Perhaps not completely live updates, as part of the point of discussing in PMs (imo) is to be able to say stupid theories freely without possibly alerting the OCs that you might be on to them. ((I mean, there are definitely strategies in wanting to put pressure on people, but there were parts of the Ostrich!Odium theory that I didn't want to say anything about (even though they ya know, proooobably could think of it without me letting them know that I'm thinking it too but still paranoia I know I'm sorry I'm paranoid deal with it). ))

[Turquoise Gorilla]

7 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

I know that in LG72 there was a Huge problem with PMs. People were voting, giving reads, and doing whatever in the thread- with, when asked, just saying "for PM reasons" which isn't a good reason. 

In this game so far, all conclusions have been made public as far as I am aware. the Shadesmar eight, the Odium!Ostrich Conclusions, ect. Perhaps not completely live updates, as part of the point of discussing in PMs (imo) is to be able to say stupid theories freely without possibly alerting the OCs that you might be on to them. ((I mean, there are definitely strategies in wanting to put pressure on people, but there were parts of the Ostrich!Odium theory that I didn't want to say anything about (even though they ya know, proooobably could think of it without me letting them know that I'm thinking it too but still paranoia I know I'm sorry I'm paranoid deal with it). ))

I think the point about inclusion/exclusion has less to do with the sharing of conclusions as it does the feeling of having a stake in the discussion leading to the conclusion.

[Opal Lion]

2 minutes ago, Turquoise Gorilla said:

I think the point about inclusion/exclusion has less to do with the sharing of conclusions as it does the feeling of having a stake in the discussion leading to the conclusion.

I understand that, but I was specifically responding to Hyena:

21 minutes ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

I ask that reasoning be publicised along with the results please

As with recent previous games the secret trust circles have failed to provide any reasoning whatsoever. 

[Violet Axolotl]

I hope that in the near turns, open discussion can become more prevalent. I look forward to going back to simply trading suspicion ideas, and analyzing each other openly- I enjoy that aspect of the game far more than using mechanical evidence.

After Ostrich I, for one, have nearly no idea of where to go and would be more than happy to discuss with y'all. That's certainly something we could do now- does anyone remember what the general thoughts on Rhino were C1-2?

[Quartz Zebra]

Quote

Zebra, for instance, has flatly stated to not be included in PMs.

I felt like a bunch of people were asking for PMs with me without having a good reason. PMs that involve me generally die after 2-3 posts anyways, so I figured I'd save everyone the bother.

I don't know about the other folks that are being quiet, but I'm mostly waiting for us to kill off everyone that has been confirmed evil so that we can get back to our regular program of not knowing what to do.

I don't really feel out of the loop (although it would be nice to know some specifics on how the 8 players in Shadesmar got reduced to 3), but I would agree that there hasn't been a whole lot of room for analysis this game. There are probably 3 elims left once we finish with the ones we already found, so there will be plenty of time to have good discussion (and to get my highstorm calculations  more accurate).

[Melon Dingo]

I would like to add something. I very much enjoyed the first three turns of this game. It has been one of the first times I’ve felt PMs have actually been beneficial to my play. In that I was able to plan a way to trap a certain hatey-boy, but alas, him being freed has ruined that plan. I also feel like I’m in a generous position just because of how fun my role is, and how much I can do with it (GMs, I think Ruin is a little broken tbh). I was able to stop the elim kill N2 by simple destroying Shadesmar. That was satisfying.

In this stage of the game, however, I agree with others. It feels too easy, and I haven’t gotten to play much of a role in the game since N3, as I’m only in a small PM circle, despite the extraneous amounts of PMs I got after N2. To be honest, I’ve really just been following along with Mouse, as they’ve essentially single-handedly solved the game. This could be from my lack of ability to really make good reads on people and form true suspicions... I don’t know. These are just my thoughts that probably should’ve been saved for the aftermath. Though at this point, I’m sure everyone is aware that I’m Ruin (I also wrote the write-up for the destruction of Shadesmar, similarly to what Rhino did).

I won’t say I’m not having fun watching the elim team just get clapped (though I feel a little sorry for them), but it’s just not as enjoyable as it was in the earlier cycles of the game, when I didn’t know every single players role almost.

[Opal Lion]

*couch*

Currently still working on looking through, but decided to post something just incase...I don't finish by the end of the night :P. Which I...probably won't, as the only people I have gone through have been Ivory, Axolotl, ...Scarlet... and Albatross. Kiiiiinda finished looking through Coral. 

so! current reads! 
I really don't have enough Elim reads but! oh well!

--Village--

[Village/++] Melon Dingo -  We have not seen many night kills, and since they have publicly claimed Ruin, they're probably one of my strongest town Reads. 

[Village/+] Sage Kangaroo - They were the main counterwagon to Mauve. Could be e/e theoretically, but I'm not here to tinfoil that this early. 

[Village/+] Azure Mouse - They broke out of RP early, and also talked about game-related things in RP, when it might have been just as easy to...not. do that. They also Lead the charge on Rhino and helped to confirm the Ostrich situation. . Maybe it's too much for me to assume that I 

[Village] Violet Axolotyl - A few things from their D1 play has felt towny to me, including their interactions with Mauve and their...questionable theories. They have also been helpful in general, with the Ostrich/Rhino situation. 

[Village] Ivory Dragonfly - Haven't been extremely involved in thread, but have been useful and helpful in the Shadesmar 8/O!Ostrich situations. 

[Village] Saffron Iguana - Wierd target they painted on Kangaroo's back, telling people to claim to them. Other than that, Dingo trusts them- so I'm willing to give them a small trust for now. They were one of the first people in a PM with dingo, and dingo isn't dead yet :P. 

[Village] Pearl Chameleon - I probably have to give this the least Village of Village reads right now. I think that Gecko putting Chameleon in their town reads marks them as a villager becuase of TMI.

--Null Box--

[Null/++] Coral Swan - I liked their thread engagement D1. Thought they said a few things that sounded towny in the beginning of the cycle, but I'm not sure on what their reacton to me voting ostrich means (probably nothing? :P.) as they...seemed to agree with me, but I...couldn't tell :P. 

[Null/+] Onyx Flamingo - Their rushed concern about Axolotl being RBd felt towny (emotions = towniness pog)

[Null/+] Quartz Zebra - Their strange fixation on Elephant for a while seemed off. Not sure about them later, as they've said a few things that feel so absurd I can't imagine it coming from an Elim. 

[Null/+] Amber Vulture - Village for participation (effort = village pog). Also for being a bit confused on the rules, but that's not....I mean, this game has so many rules :P.

[Null] Indigo Weasel - for all three of these, not going to say this twice more though (for the two other slots)  I feel like one of them might be an Elim, because of how little defense of Mauve there seemed to be. Perhaps all the Elims weren't online, or maybe they just decided to let her go, but...eh. 

[Null] Scarlet Octapus 

[Null] Cream Tuatara

[Null/-] Amethyst Scorpion

--Elim--

[Elim] Magenta Albatross - Throughout their posts so far, they have managed to contribute very little. they haven't given anyone any sort of reads- not Elim, not village, not even slightly implying anything. Their posts were all either about mechanics or RP. (minus the votes on Gecko D3 and Rhino D4.)

[Elim/++] Fuschia Ostrich - I believe that they are still Odium, based on Scan results and the questionable list previous actions that they sent me. Not to mention that they openwolfed at the end of day there. Whether they have passed on the Shard or not, I believe they are an OC

Edited January 12, 2021 by Opal Lion

[Saffron Iguana]

Point of clarification, @Azure Mouse, if my memory serves, you had Rhino down as a non-Shard in your chart. What caused the confusion?

Hey @Opal Lion could I please get a PM with Chameleon? I feel some empathy for a fellow punch hitter, although perhaps having a low activity player on their team has been the cause of some of the elims' troubles.

Hey Nalthis gang, did Elephant have anything interesting? 

I've said it privately but in the spirit of open conversation, I suspect the elim team has a splinter on it. That just seems like a good way to distribute the roles between the factions. 

[Violet Axolotl]

19 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

Axolotyl

Ha! The Lion falls to the spelling trap!

24 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

questionable theories.

Whatever do you mean? 

[Amethyst Scorpion]

8 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

Point of clarification, @Azure Mouse, if my memory serves, you had Rhino down as a non-Shard in your chart. What caused the confusion?

ɪᴛ'ꜱ ᴇɴᴛɪʀᴇʟʏ ᴘᴏꜱꜱɪʙʟᴇ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ᴛʜᴇ ᴍᴇʀᴄʏ ꜱʜᴀʀᴅ ᴡᴀꜱ ᴘᴀꜱꜱᴇᴅ ᴀʀᴏᴜɴᴅ ᴛʜᴇɪʀ ᴛᴇᴀᴍ. ᴘᴀʀᴛɪᴄᴜʟᴀʀʟʏ ᴀꜰᴛᴇʀ ʀᴇᴠᴇᴀʟɪɴɢ ʀʜɪɴᴏ ᴛᴏ ʙᴇ ᴜɴꜱʜᴀʀᴅᴇᴅ ɪɴ ᴛʜʀᴇᴀᴅ ᴅᴜʀɪɴɢ ᴄʏᴄʟᴇ 3.

[Opal Lion]

14 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

Hey Nalthis gang, did Elephant have anything interesting? 

Interesting as in...? I'm hanging on Nalthis rn. 

13 minutes ago, Violet Axolotl said:

Ha! The Lion falls to the spelling trap!

-_-. At least I caught my "Turataura"

EDIT:

Right, Anyone want to tell me if they had a Seon PM with Plum? they opened one with me C1, wondering who else they talked to? 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Opal Lion

[Amber Vulture]

Ugh. The meta discussion is... complicated for me.

On the one hand, I can absolutely see how feeling like they're being locked out of discussions. I myself haven't been part of any of the Trust PM's this game. In fact, it was having so much fun in a Trust PM in my very first game (which happened to be a Shard game) that caused me to stick around.

Also, Shard games and KKC games... kind of operate by different meta rules to most SE games, tbh. Shard Games *always* reveal a lot of roles (and alignments) early, just by sheer wealth of information flowing around from place to place (mainly through PM's). My first game, there were three outed Elims at various points in the game, who weren't lynched for various reasons. Was it broken as all heck? Yeah. Was it still fun? I'd say so. The point is, if you go in trying to play a Shard Game like a regular game, you're probably going to have a bad time.

But Shard games are different, and should be treated differently by those going into it. For example, my RP at the start of this game was to try to get to each planet for a cycle (and not die until that point), which was my own personal wincon, in a way. Now... I kind of hated the RP I wrote for that, so it may be a bad example, but that's the fault of my bad writing, not the game. The point is, Shard Games (as well as KKC games, which live by the same kind of rules, IMO) try and really embrace the open-world nature of everything, and you can really do anything, often completely orthogonal to your wincon. That's how to make a Shard game fun, and I'd argue that's not a bug, it's a feature.

The second thing that usually makes or breaks a game like this is the community aspect. In this area, I wonder if making this an anonymous game was a mistake, as it kind of erodes that area as people don't know who they're talking to.

I dunno, this is probably at least in part nostalgia causing me to defend this game, but... yeah. I am locked out of the room where it happens for this game, and I honestly think I'm completely fine with that. I'm not sure if I'll continue with my old RP (probably not, tbh), but I'll find something else to do instead if I don't so that the game continues to be fun for me. I recommend others try the same.

[Violet Axolotl]

7 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

Right, Anyone want to tell me if they had a Seon PM with Plum? they opened one with me C1, wondering who else they talked to? 

Ummmm me I think but literally nothing happened.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Amber Vulture said:

as people don't know who they're talking to.

I wouldn't necessarily say that  

Edited January 12, 2021 by Violet Axolotl

[Amber Vulture]

 

6 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

Right, Anyone want to tell me if they had a Seon PM with Plum? they opened one with me C1, wondering who else they talked to?

I had a Prudence PM with Plum, IIRC. It shut down at the end of C1 when Prudence died. Same as Axolotl, nothing happened, it wasn't open long enough for us to get to the point of roleclaiming or anything.

[Opal Lion]

7 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

The second thing that usually makes or breaks a game like this is the community aspect. In this area, I wonder if making this an anonymous game was a mistake, as it kind of erodes that area as people don't know who they're talking to.

I mean, I was under the assumption that this was a part of the appeal? Older players could come back without the risk of getting fear killed (a different discussion, smh) or whatnot

7 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

I had a Prudence PM with Plum, IIRC. It shut down at the end of C1 when Prudence died. Same as Axolotl, nothing happened, it wasn't open long enough for us to get to the point of roleclaiming or anything.

I'm more looking for the people who I can't see :P. I know there's going to be PM items bouncing around for people who don't trust me, Elims trying to avoid me, etc. I can't expect anyone to tell me all the PMs they're in that weren't approved by me, but I can hope that people will be fine with letting me know if they had a PM with Plum- as it doesn't tell the Elims anything they don't already know. Will it help me figure out anythign?.... yeaaaaahh prooooobably noooooooot but :P. 

[Saffron Iguana]

GM question: if a non-Shard starts the game with a role like Poisoner or 17th Sharder and they are given a Shard before dying, in the announcement of their death, would their original role be noted, or would they simply show up as a Shard? 

*

I'm mostly interested in if Plum had any items that could have affected the game. Stuff that would have provided knowledge the Elims used as the basis for an action, for example. If it was all one-use stuff that was unused, it shouldn't be consequential. 

Hyena, you implied you would vote to advantage the village once you got one more vote on a villager in, but don't you get removed from the game when you complete your win con?

I am going to start considering Elephant to be one of the Elim team. They need to slow down the village to complete their wincon. I would do the same in their shoes. Opal, if they have a PM with Ostrich, that should be closed. 

We should begin discussing who to exe tomorrow. Assuming Ostrich is killed by a role or item tonight, we will need a new target. How about Zebra? They could have avoided PMs to keep from having to claim. 

Edit: I had a Shadesmar PM with Rhino and we discussed photocopiers. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Saffron Iguana

[Opal Lion]

Catch me answering all the questions that aren't directed at me because I'm lonely :(((

2 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

Hyena, you implied you would vote to advantage the village once you got one more vote on a villager in, but don't you get removed from the game when you complete your win con?

Survival must also survive the whole game. I see no reason for them to side with the Elims, however, as they would need to spend 3 cycles trying to take out Hyena :P. Quote from the rules, Wincons. 

Quote

Survival - Neutral. Wins by surviving until the end of the game, and must also have a final vote on at least 2 Children of Adonalsium and two of Odium’s Champions.

--

5 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

I am going to start considering Elephant to be one of the Elim team. They need to slow down the village to complete their wincon. I would do the same in their shoes. Opal, if they have a PM with Ostrich, that should be closed. 

They don't need a PM with Ostrich, as they're currently chilling on a world without any villagers :P. (oop) and I might not close it anyways *narrows eyes* I don't wanna be like all stubborn or whatnot, but I'm not a fan of you telling me what to do with my power :P. 

I also don't think that's quite fair to assume: they need 3 more cycles to get to each planet, and I'm pretty sure they're good on the whole voting on one of each side of things. We were just talking about it in the Nalthis doc. They also don't need to be as worried anymore, as Odium is no longer restricted to the Rosharan System :P. 

10 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

We should begin discussing who to exe tomorrow. Assuming Ostrich is killed by a role or item tonight, we will need a new target. How about Zebra? They could have avoided PMs to keep from having to claim.

I also think it's good to talk, but I don't think that's good reasoning on Zebra. Yeah, they're the only person who has stated outright that they don't want PMs, but I don't think that's AI really, and not a good reason to vote them up. If this reasoning is for pressure than it's pretty useless since they already addressed why they didn't want all the PMs. Even if they did avoid PMs to keep from claiming, (which I'm pretty sure has to be at least partially true :P) that doesn't mean that they're an Elim for doing so? 

A lot of people haven't posted much in terms of reads. A few people have posted some lists, and a few others have scattered them throughout posts, but still quite a few people (including you) haven't said much about your trusts or whatnot. (unless I've missed them?)

If you're looking for a low PMer as an Elim, may I reccomend Magenta Albatross? :P. 

[Sapphire Elephant]

12 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

I'm mostly interested in if Plum had any items that could have affected the game. Stuff that would have provided knowledge the Elims used as the basis for an action, for example. If it was all one-use stuff that was unused, it shouldn't be consequential. 

"issa appear on sel if plum had any items"

12 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

Hyena, you implied you would vote to advantage the village once you got one more vote on a villager in, but don't you get removed from the game when you complete your win con?

"one whole cycle later"

12 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

I am going to start considering Elephant to be one of the Elim team. They need to slow down the village to complete their wincon. I would do the same in their shoes. Opal, if they have a PM with Ostrich, that should be closed. 

"hey hey what did i tell bout makin assumpshuns? do not. thas right. dont be goin on makin any "considerashuns". as i said im just planning on hoppin an inveshtin and double votin. if ya win before me winnin, i cant shtop it cosh imma shingle pershon and yall have loooooads of trushted village votes ta vote on sushpected fellas. an its not like i can do anythin with my ackshuns either, both my ackshuns for the cycle is spent for my wincon. inveshtin and usin da ashpect. so dont be goin on considerin imma defect. i am me. i work for no one elsh, even if it benefitsh me. beshides, jokesh on you, i dont have a pm with ostrich, ha! alsho, double jokesh on you, ostrich is with jusht me an gorilla on taldain so i dont need pms ta scheme ha ha! alsho jokesh on me cosh ostrich is not speakin in the doc "