Palanaeum

Navani's Notebook Transliteration

21 posts in this topic

Well done!

Maybe the "th" thing is based on sound. The "Th" sound in words like they, them, that, there is represented by "t" + "h" letters, while the "th" sound in words like thought, thanks, theatre, thermal is represented by the "th" letter.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many south eastern Asian languages end their sentences and questions with a syllable like this "ha" in the illustrations.  

I'm most familiar with Taiwanese because 20 years ago I played on an Everquest server that had a lot of Taiwanese players that even when typing in English, would end questions with "la?" and sentences with "lo."

edit:  also, thanks for the translation, I was really looking forward to an awesome fan like you doing this so I can read them.  

Edited by Serack
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Serack said:

Many south eastern Asian languages end their sentences and questions with a syllable like this "ha" in the illustrations.  

I'm most familiar with Taiwanese because 20 years ago I played on an Everquest server that had a lot of Taiwanese players that even when typing in English, would end questions with "la?" and sentences with "lo."

That's a really interesting detail!  I wasn't aware that that was a thing in southern Asia.  That definitely seems like that's what it's emulating.  As far as you know, is it something that is spoken, or is it just written?

9 hours ago, Honorless said:

Maybe the "th" thing is based on sound. The "Th" sound in words like they, them, that, there is represented by "t" + "h" letters, while the "th" sound in words like thought, thanks, theatre, thermal is represented by the "th" letter.

That's an interesting thought, but throughout the text, the letter for TH is always used except for the two "the"s I mentioned.  "This" and "thing" are both spelled with the letter for TH.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's crazy to think in a relatively similarish timeframe, two Shardworlds develop very similar means of aviation. 

Or no. I mean. Investiture driven airships with propeller stabilzers, and escape pods. 

It's probably not at all possible that Mraize or Iyatil might have snuck Thaidakar the plans that he might have given to the people who worshipped him for saving them. Those plans then being adapted for a different system of investiture. 

Edited by Arch1tect
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mistborn era 1 and 2 spoilers

Spoiler

 

34 minutes ago, Arch1tect said:

It's probably not at all possible that Mraize or Iyatil might have snuck Thaidakar the plans that he might have given to the people who worshipped him for saving them. Those plans then being adapted for a different system of investiture. 

Holy crap.  I didn't think about that.  I think the timelines do match up for that theory, because era 2 happens around the break between stormlight 5 and 6, right?  And we know that Kelsier is looking for technology to hustle between planets.....

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, sashiminaismith said:

That's a really interesting detail!  I wasn't aware that that was a thing in southern Asia.  That definitely seems like that's what it's emulating.  As far as you know, is it something that is spoken, or is it just written?

I’m pretty sure it’s spoken.  I’ve been told it’s a feature of more than one language over there

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Palanaeum said:

That's a really interesting detail!  I wasn't aware that that was a thing in southern Asia.  That definitely seems like that's what it's emulating.  As far as you know, is it something that is spoken, or is it just written?

To make a statement a question (in Mandarin), one puts the particle 吗 (pronounced 'ma') at the end. It is both written and spoken. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Ookla the Knight said:

Wait—how was this translated? I’m confused.

 

Each symbol correlates to a letter or sound (there are single letters that represent SH CH and TH).  Going through letter by letter gives he transliteration, though—as I was talking about before—there arent any punctuation marks (other than question marks and the line at the beginning of each sentence that denotes the maximum height of the letters).

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Palanaeum said:

 

Each symbol correlates to a letter or sound (there are single letters that represent SH CH and TH).  Going through letter by letter gives he transliteration, though—as I was talking about before—there arent any punctuation marks (other than question marks and the line at the beginning of each sentence that denotes the maximum height of the letters).

very cool! I didn't know we could correlate it all to letters/sounds like that.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Serack said:

I’m pretty sure it’s spoken.  I’ve been told it’s a feature of more than one language over there

 

26 minutes ago, Gears said:

To make a statement a question (in Mandarin), one puts the particle 吗 (pronounced 'ma') at the end. It is both written and spoken. 

Thanks!  I think that's a cool detail for them to put in, especially since we know the Alethi are partially based on asian cultures.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Palanaeum I am from Taiwan. I think 'ha' in Alethi is similar to 呢(ne) in Mandarin, which conveys wondering.

Those words are called "Auxiliary word." (I used google to translate the word.Hope it is right.)

Auxiliary word usually put in the last word of a sentence and is used for conveying or emphasizing emotion in Mandarin and Taiwanese. The word itself doesn't have any meaning.

We both write and speak auxiliary words.

For example, we can use 啊(a) to emphasize that sentence is important, 嗎(ma) for asking question, 吧(ba) for conveying uncertain, 囉(lo) to emphasize the situation in that sentence.

 (I've tried my best to explan those words in English, but be aware to that sometimes we still need to comprehend other sentences in the conversation to get the right meaning for auxiliary word.)

By the way, Taiwanese people Really Really likes to use auxiliary words.We can have a conversation with over 80% sentences end with an auxiliary word. Although sometimes it is just too much and annoyed.:lol:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, R.Ag said:

I think 'ha' in Alethi is similar to 呢(ne) in Mandarin, which conveys wondering.

Those words are called "Auxiliary word." (I used google to translate the word.Hope it is right.)

Auxiliary word usually put in the last word of a sentence and is used for conveying or emphasizing emotion in Mandarin and Taiwanese. The word itself doesn't have any meaning.

We both write and speak auxiliary words.

For example, we can use 啊(a) to emphasize that sentence is important, 嗎(ma) for asking question, 吧(ba) for conveying uncertain, 囉(lo) to emphasize the situation in that sentence.

Thanks for the info!  I am glad there is a pattern to this in the real world, because when I was first transliterating it, I thought maybe I was reading it wrong :lol:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to pop in and post the translations I made.  I attached them all to this post -- two versions, one is my interpretation, and the other is a direct translation (errors and all).

On 12/1/2020 at 4:50 AM, Palanaeum said:

If you find any mistakes or have a different way you interpreted the punctuation, let me know!  I'm interested in other people's thoughts on transliterating women's script.

@Palanaeum I think I found only two errors in your translations:

  • On pg. 1 (Fourth Bridge) you have "levers" where it should be "levels"

  • On pg.2 (Arnist Method) you are missing the "eye" in "eyebolts"

Other than that, I think we agree!  Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that the height marker at the beginning of some lines is punctuation like some people, and you hear, believe.  If this mark is truly a "period" that goes at the beginning of the sentence instead of the end, then there are just way too many run-on sentences in most script I've seen.  Not to mention, we see here the use of question marks, which go at the end of sentences, and so why should other types of Women's Script punctuation be different?  I think the height marker is just something that someone writes every time they begin writing anew after picking up the pen or taking a break, etc.  To keep the heights of the characters consistent.  So the translations I've done add in some periods and start new sentences where yours doesn't.  Overall, I think the meaning is the same.

 

 

Fourth Bridge Interp.png

Fourth Bridge Trans.png

Arnist Method Interp.png

Arnist Method Trans.png

Crystal Pillar Interp.png

Crystal Pillar Trans.png

Raysium Dagger Interp.png

Raysium Dagger Trans.png

Vacuum Tube Interp.png

Vacuum Tube Trans.png

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 12/1/2020 at 2:50 AM, Palanaeum said:

For sentences that end with question marks, there seems to be a precedent that the last word before the question mark has "ha" added to the end of it.  For example, the direct transliteration of the question at the end of Raboniel's first section on page 4 (the dagger page) is, "Why give into my enemys hands the means to destroy meha?"  This trend is consistent for the three examples present in these pages, and both Navani and Raboniel do it. 

 

On 12/2/2020 at 0:19 AM, R.Ag said:

@Palanaeum I am from Taiwan. I think 'ha' in Alethi is similar to 呢(ne) in Mandarin, which conveys wondering.

Those words are called "Auxiliary word." (I used google to translate the word.Hope it is right.)

Nice catch! I just assumed Raboniel was adding some wry laughter from her internal monologue, but this makes much more sense.
The interrogative auxiliary word also shows up in the Ship Designs notebook page from Oathbringer: 
"Too fanciful, ha?"

On 12/6/2020 at 6:52 PM, Kinolee said:

Not to mention, we see here the use of question marks, which go at the end of sentences, and so why should other types of Women's Script punctuation be different?

I think the ? symbol is one of Nazh's annotations. The "handwriting" style matches his other notes.

Edited by Harakeke
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the topic's active again, I'll throw in that Raboniel's sentence endings is also a thing in (both spoken and written) Japanese. There are syllables that you can add to the end of a sentence to do things like turn it into an explicit or rhetorical question, or to function as the equivalent of an exclamation point, or to express politeness or informality or... you get the idea. Brandon may have initially picked up the idea from Korean, which he learned while he was a missionary and which (per my limited knowledge) has a similar way of changing the function of words and sentences via suffixes.

Brandon also draws a lot on Hebrew in SA which might have influenced Alethi grammar as well as names.

Edited by Weltall
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Weltall said:

Brandon may have initially picked up the idea from Korean, which he learned while he was a missionary and which (per my limited knowledge) has a similar way of changing the function of words and sentences via suffixes.

Yup, Korean has interrogative auxiliary words, too. In addition to an actual question verbal form (more than one version, especially depending on politeness level) that essentially turns sentences into questions, there are a few ways to essentially tack “is it not?” or “is it” onto words.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like a recurring linguistic theme, sule. The Duladen language on Sel also uses auxilary words, kolo?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Harakeke said:

The Duladen language on Sel also uses auxilary words, kolo?

Basically a stereotypical Canadian, eh?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.