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Theory about Kelsier (and his future)


Benkinsky

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So I recently finished Secret History; apart from RoW I am up to date with everything.

I loved Secret History and wanted to share my Theory about Kelsier's future.

I think Kelsier will try to reform Ambition. Here's my thoughts and arguments.

TL;DR:

I think once he knows how to leave Scadrial, it's possible that Kelsier will try to collect the chunks of Ambition and reform the shard, becoming its new Vessel. Of all the shards, Ambition fits him the best, and he would fit the Shard well too. Additionally, the one system we know of that's somewhat associated with Ambition is Threnody. SH mentions a similarity between Kelsier and the Shades of Threnody, one of three planets that Kelsier definitely knows of. The Threnodite Systems close connection to death offers itself for stories including a ghost.

Not Long Enough; Want To Read:

- Kelsier is beginning to become Cosmere aware and he will try to learn more and more.

- He tasted Ascension with Preservation. And now that he knows that's a thing that is possible, it seems like a worthy goal to keep himself busy with.

- Hoid seems to be interested in keeping the Shards from gaining too much power and keeping them seperated. Kelsier hates him. Would be fun to have them square off in that kind of way, especially with Hoid as the MC of Mistborn Era 4

Why specifically Ambition?

- At the end of Secret History, Vin asks Kelsier an important question about his motivation. We're lead to believe that Kelsier will look inside himself and realize that she was right and his vendetta against the Lord Ruler was more about himself than the Skaa or Scadrial. However, I believe that unlike what you might expect in other books, Kelsier will accept this and go all in on it rather than backing down. That's who he is. A megalomaniac, a madman. Scadrial was just lucky that he was on the side of the Skaa.
We saw that Preservations Intent and Kelsier's personality were too different. Of all the shards we know, Ambition would fit him really well. He's insanely ambitious, going so far as to think up a way to overthrow an - as far as he knew - immortal Emperor. He punched multiple gods. If that isn't ambitious, I don't know what is.

But there's more hints towards my theory.

- Foreshadowing (pun intended). When Kelsier encountered the Ire, they mentioned Threnody Shades. As Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow, their Alerter Fabrial picked up on him. I believe that this might be more than fanservice for those of us who read Shadows for Silence. Threnody is the one planet we know where Investiture from Ambition "landed" in large chunks. It's already connected to Cognitive Shadows, and the names of the planets in the Threnodite system are all the names of Songs of Mourning - and Kelsier is dead ( also as in "The Bands of Mourning", which Kelsier used)

- Threnody and Sel are the only other two planets that Kelsier canonically knows of so far. Putting himself in opposition of the Ire, it wouldn't be too far fetched that he would want to investigate what it is that these very knowledgable people are trying to contain that they confused him with. Not a far stretch imho.

- Ambition was splintered before Dominion and Devotion. While we know that Odium stuffed those two in the Cognitive Realm to make sure they wouldn't be picked up again, as far as we know he didn't know how to do that yet when he finished off Ambition outside the Threnodite system. So while Ambition is probably spread out in dead chunks of Investiture, someone ambitious enough with a lot of time could try to collect those.

- Additionally, Edgli (Endowment) seemed to think that Ambitions last Vessel would've been trouble, and seems glad that she's gone. From different WoB's we know that Sazed's ascension has caused quite a stir, so Kelsier could definitely take up the troublemaking mantle of Uli Da very well.

 

That's what I have so far.

 

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3 hours ago, Benkinsky said:

So I recently finished Secret History; apart from RoW I am up to date with everything.

I loved Secret History and wanted to share my Theory about Kelsier's future.

I think Kelsier will try to reform Ambition. Here's my thoughts and arguments.

TL;DR:

I think once he knows how to leave Scadrial, it's possible that Kelsier will try to collect the chunks of Ambition and reform the shard, becoming its new Vessel. Of all the shards, Ambition fits him the best, and he would fit the Shard well too. Additionally, the one system we know of that's somewhat associated with Ambition is Threnody. SH mentions a similarity between Kelsier and the Shades of Threnody, one of three planets that Kelsier definitely knows of. The Threnodite Systems close connection to death offers itself for stories including a ghost.

Not Long Enough; Want To Read:

- Kelsier is beginning to become Cosmere aware and he will try to learn more and more.

- He tasted Ascension with Preservation. And now that he knows that's a thing that is possible, it seems like a worthy goal to keep himself busy with.

- Hoid seems to be interested in keeping the Shards from gaining too much power and keeping them seperated. Kelsier hates him. Would be fun to have them square off in that kind of way, especially with Hoid as the MC of Mistborn Era 4

Why specifically Ambition?

- At the end of Secret History, Vin asks Kelsier an important question about his motivation. We're lead to believe that Kelsier will look inside himself and realize that she was right and his vendetta against the Lord Ruler was more about himself than the Skaa or Scadrial. However, I believe that unlike what you might expect in other books, Kelsier will accept this and go all in on it rather than backing down. That's who he is. A megalomaniac, a madman. Scadrial was just lucky that he was on the side of the Skaa.
We saw that Preservations Intent and Kelsier's personality were too different. Of all the shards we know, Ambition would fit him really well. He's insanely ambitious, going so far as to think up a way to overthrow an - as far as he knew - immortal Emperor. He punched multiple gods. If that isn't ambitious, I don't know what is.

But there's more hints towards my theory.

- Foreshadowing (pun intended). When Kelsier encountered the Ire, they mentioned Threnody Shades. As Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow, their Alerter Fabrial picked up on him. I believe that this might be more than fanservice for those of us who read Shadows for Silence. Threnody is the one planet we know where Investiture from Ambition "landed" in large chunks. It's already connected to Cognitive Shadows, and the names of the planets in the Threnodite system are all the names of Songs of Mourning - and Kelsier is dead ( also as in "The Bands of Mourning", which Kelsier used)

- Threnody and Sel are the only other two planets that Kelsier canonically knows of so far. Putting himself in opposition of the Ire, it wouldn't be too far fetched that he would want to investigate what it is that these very knowledgable people are trying to contain that they confused him with. Not a far stretch imho.

- Ambition was splintered before Dominion and Devotion. While we know that Odium stuffed those two in the Cognitive Realm to make sure they wouldn't be picked up again, as far as we know he didn't know how to do that yet when he finished off Ambition outside the Threnodite system. So while Ambition is probably spread out in dead chunks of Investiture, someone ambitious enough with a lot of time could try to collect those.

- Additionally, Edgli (Endowment) seemed to think that Ambitions last Vessel would've been trouble, and seems glad that she's gone. From different WoB's we know that Sazed's ascension has caused quite a stir, so Kelsier could definitely take up the troublemaking mantle of Uli Da very well.

 

That's what I have so far.

 

Interesting theory. First off, one major error, Odium Splintered Dominium and Devotion before Ambition. "At some point after Ascending, Odium went after one of his fellow Shards, Ambition, as he felt most threatened by her intent. However, before he could find her, he located two other Shards, Devotion and Dominion, in the Selish system." So he would have known how to bring her shard into the cognitive. The rest of the theory seems solid. Kelsier seems like the person who would want to become a god, especially after getting a small taste.

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2 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Interesting theory. First off, one major error, Odium Splintered Dominium and Devotion before Ambition. "At some point after Ascending, Odium went after one of his fellow Shards, Ambition, as he felt most threatened by her intent. However, before he could find her, he located two other Shards, Devotion and Dominion, in the Selish system." So he would have known how to bring her shard into the cognitive. The rest of the theory seems solid. Kelsier seems like the person who would want to become a god, especially after getting a small taste.

Ah, good to know. But yeah, the end result is still possible. Especially since this is definite proof that it could be picked up again, where it reforged

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Just now, Benkinsky said:

Ah, good to know. But yeah, the end result is still possible. Especially since this is definite proof that it could be picked up again, where it reforged

Yeah, will mention another problem is that Ambition was splintered somewhere outside the system, but that's more a problem for Kelsier to figure out than a writing one.

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I just don’t think Kelsier has the means. He is brand new to the Cosmere as a whole. He knows almost nothing. Also, he’s literally dead. Sure you can do stuff with Hemalurgy, so sure, he isn’t exactly completely dead, but that’s bound to still have some restrictions.

 Also, he’d be competing with other huge worldhoppers. The Seventeenth Shard, The Ire, Silverlight, The Ghostbloods, Hoid. Each of these groups all have their own motives, and I really don’t know what they all are, but I’m willing to bet that one of them wouldn’t exactly be okay with someone taking up Ambition like that. 

Finally, if Kelsier was to pick up a shard, don’t you think it’d be “the one that just wants to survive”?

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3 hours ago, Danex said:

I just don’t think Kelsier has the means. He is brand new to the Cosmere as a whole. He knows almost nothing. Also, he’s literally dead. Sure you can do stuff with Hemalurgy, so sure, he isn’t exactly completely dead, but that’s bound to still have some restrictions.

 Also, he’d be competing with other huge worldhoppers. The Seventeenth Shard, The Ire, Silverlight, The Ghostbloods, Hoid. Each of these groups all have their own motives, and I really don’t know what they all are, but I’m willing to bet that one of them wouldn’t exactly be okay with someone taking up Ambition like that. 

Finally, if Kelsier was to pick up a shard, don’t you think it’d be “the one that just wants to survive”?

With all due honesty, Ambition feels a bit more in Kelsier's character than the survive mantra he used to make himself a god. Also, I'd like to see those other worldhoppers stop him. The guy will show them hell.

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/4/2020 at 6:58 PM, Aspiring Writer said:

With all due honesty, Ambition feels a bit more in Kelsier's character than the survive mantra he used to make himself a god. Also, I'd like to see those other worldhoppers stop him. The guy will show them hell.

I honestly think you might be onto something here. 

Additionally, from SH itself there was a quick but significant moment towards the end where the powers of Ruin and Preservation were dropped and Kelsier considered grabbing both only for Sazed to walk in and scoop them up before him. 
I'm very curious to see where his character goes in the future and you've added something extra spicy to consider, both for it's cope and believably.  

Edited by AonEne
RoW spoilers
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On 10/4/2020 at 5:03 PM, Dannex said:

I just don’t think Kelsier has the means. He is brand new to the Cosmere as a whole. He knows almost nothing. Also, he’s literally dead. Sure you can do stuff with Hemalurgy, so sure, he isn’t exactly completely dead, but that’s bound to still have some restrictions.

 Also, he’d be competing with other huge worldhoppers. The Seventeenth Shard, The Ire, Silverlight, The Ghostbloods, Hoid. Each of these groups all have their own motives, and I really don’t know what they all are, but I’m willing to bet that one of them wouldn’t exactly be okay with someone taking up Ambition like that. 

Finally, if Kelsier was to pick up a shard, don’t you think it’d be “the one that just wants to survive”?

Kelsier may be young, but he has an entire planet at his disposal. And this is a man with an intense drive, who will do whatever it takes to get what he wants. If he can’t do it himself, he’ll find someone to do it for him. Because that’s just who he is.

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9 minutes ago, TheCurrentMood said:

Even with a spoiler tag?
If you're not allowed to post spoiler period then why bother with the tag? 

Even with a spoiler tag. The tag is for other spoilers, one that are out of their respective period; like if you wanted to talk about something from, say, Words of Radiance as it's connected to Mistborn. You can also use them to contain things which would otherwise take up a lot of space on the page. 

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36 minutes ago, TheCurrentMood said:

I honestly think you might be onto something here. 

Additionally, from SH itself there was a quick but significant moment towards the end where the powers of Ruin and Preservation were dropped and Kelsier considered grabbing both only for Sazed to walk in and scoop them up before him. 
I'm very curious to see where his character goes in the future and you've added something extra spicy to consider, both for it's cope and believably.  

Kelsier chose not to take them up. He considers it, but stops as soon as Elend shows up. 

It was very much kid and an unwatched cookie jar moment. Like: I know I shouldn’t, and maybe I don’t even really want it, but it’s RIGHT. THERE. Elend showing up just gave him the push he needed to make the choice he knew was right and resist his - very childish - temptation to take the Shards up.

But Kell has always been rather immature. You’d never guess he’s forty-one at the end of SH. (My aunt was a grandmother at 38, to put this in perspective.) He acts very much like an over grown child at times.

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