Retrac Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Ok so we know that Shades are cognitive shadows. Quote danimalod I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones? Brandon Sanderson Shades are what we call "Cognitive Shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where Investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies. Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms. Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 4, 2015) And in Mistborn Secret History Nazh says that becoming a Cognitive shadow is a rite. Quote One doesn't merely decide to become a shadow! It's an important rite! With requirements and traditions." - Mistborn: Secret History So that made me start thinking that Elantrians are Cognitive shadows but then I found this. Quote Khyrindor You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Brandon Sanderson Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created. Recognize that the term cognitive shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this: Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality. A mind (cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture. When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul. Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety. So an Elantrian isn't a cognitive shadow, what are they. And in theory, could one become a shade without dying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) Elantrians are people who have a direct line to the Dor which sustains them in the same way that someone who's attained the Fifth Heightening will have their health sustained permanently by Investiture, without needing to die first. We've also got F-Bendalloy and Cadmium which (with compounding and enough metal) could theoretically allow a person to never need to eat/drink or breathe again, providing for their bodily needs via Investiture. So it's not like the life-sustaining mechanics of being an Elantrian are unique per se, they just get all of those things in one massive package that doesn't require special effort. On the other hand, we know that it's mentally and emotionally exhausting to be an Elantrian so it's the roughest form of Cosmere immortality on the psyche of the individual. And there's no indication that you can become a Shade without dying. The rites and requirements that Nazh speaks of could just as easily involve things you needed to do before you died in order to ensure that you became one post-mortem. We know the reason Shades appear the way they currently do is because of all that extra Investiture from Ambition that saturated the Threnodite System, which means the Investiture is already there. Brandon has confirmed that this is in fact one of the 'requirements' that Nazh mentioned. Edited February 12, 2020 by Weltall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Harrycrapper Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Spoilers for Emperors Soul and Stormlight Archive below Spoiler I feel a pertinent question is "If someone has serious brain damage but their body is still alive, do they become a cognitive shadow when their body dies or their mind?" Contextually, I'm thinking of the Emperor in The Emperors Soul. Is the original Ashravan still in his body or is there just a facsimile of a person there with most of Ashravan's memories and personality? This is one of the only instances in the Cosmere where someone was basically dead but their body was kept alive. Otherwise, if there is a way of separating the mind and soul from the body without killing the body, we do not know of it. The only other instance I can think of is the Heralds. We know very little about their origins at this point, so it's difficult to speculate, but I don't recall hearing that they died before becoming Heralds. My best guess there is that the Oathpact was also a suicide pact. They made a pact with Honor to die and become powerful shades to hold back the shades of the ancient Singers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Quote R'Shara Does a person have to die before they can become a Cognitive Shadow? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Depending on your definition of dying? R'Shara The physical body dies. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 18 hours ago, Harrycrapper said: Spoilers for Emperors Soul and Stormlight Archive below Hide contents I feel a pertinent question is "If someone has serious brain damage but their body is still alive, do they become a cognitive shadow when their body dies or their mind?" Contextually, I'm thinking of the Emperor in The Emperors Soul. Is the original Ashravan still in his body or is there just a facsimile of a person there with most of Ashravan's memories and personality? This is one of the only instances in the Cosmere where someone was basically dead but their body was kept alive. Otherwise, if there is a way of separating the mind and soul from the body without killing the body, we do not know of it. The only other instance I can think of is the Heralds. We know very little about their origins at this point, so it's difficult to speculate, but I don't recall hearing that they died before becoming Heralds. My best guess there is that the Oathpact was also a suicide pact. They made a pact with Honor to die and become powerful shades to hold back the shades of the ancient Singers. That's a really interesting connection to make, @Harrycrapper So what do you think Shai did when she SoulForged Ashravan? It's a question that's been on my mind for a while now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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